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[German Soldier]

 

 

But all that matters to the discussion of "How is Solas a more human villain?" is what he's thinking. Whether or not you agree with his reasoning, he has obviously come to the conclusion that his current course of action is best one. He doesn't want to do it, but he believes he must. Just as Shepard likely didn't want to sacrifice the Batarians, but believed they must. Was Shepard more justified than Solas? Given the information we have now, I have to say yes, Shepard probably was. But that's beside the point - the point being, this almost contradictory desire for Solas to do good by doing bad is part of what some find make him human and relatable.

 

That's all I'm doing here - I'm not trying to justify Solas' plan. I'm just trying to explain why some find him sympathetic and human, more so than if he were just some cackling supervillain.

"He don't want to/but he must" represent a subjective perspective which often does not represent the ontological reality which is more about

"He want to/but don't have to".  

Solas chose his own priorities and decided that his own sense of guilt isn't enough to make him stop this imply that his sense of guilt  was set aside  by his own priorities.

I saw plenty of DA characters that resemble Solas in this aspect (Anders,Isabela,Morrigan) all peoples that "Didn't want to but feel that they must" for their own ambitions that these kind of characters are relatable is a matter of opinion because to me they are not  since they are devoured by their own desires.

 

[The Elder King]

But the reason we prioritize the living over the dead is because in our world, the dead can't be helped. But if you're a god with magical powers and can reverse death just as easily, wouldn't your priorities change? The dead would practically be equal to the living. And not only the dead, but future generations, too. Future generations not yet born. We try to get our society now to think about weighing future generations not yet born with people still alive today when we talk about environmental issues.

 

He feels responsible for the fall, but if that was his only feeling, he would just kill himself. The fact he is taking an action is because he is reversing a mistake - he is reversing deaths or ensuring the lives of future generations.

It's not that easy though. He doesn't have the power to bring back people 'easily'. There's a difference between bringing back to the death people without much problem and doing so with a (from what we know so far) process that might end up killing most of the current population. And in this case, living takes priority. That's my opinion. Obviously Solas disagrees, 

Those people are still dead. Fixing a mistake by killing other people is, in my opinion, making another mistake.

[Addictress]

It's not that easy though. He doesn't have the power to bring back people 'easily'. There's a difference between bringing back to the death people without much problem and doing so with a (from what we know so far) process that might end up killing most of the current population. And in this case, living takes priority. That's my opinion. Obviously Solas disagrees, 

Those people are still dead. Fixing a mistake by killing other people is, in my opinion, making another mistake.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Damn. I should do this flow-chart thingee with the "Viddasala isn't a rogue agent" thread. But then I'd have to operate a camera, and that may give away my location to the... um... forces bent on my certain destruction... or at least my certain annoyance. 

[Addictress]

Spoiler

[Hellion Rex]

Indeed. I hope they'll make some other big reveals in the next game, as well as explaining more of the elven lore pre-Veil (which is likely if they'll focus on Solas).

If they just give us that little tidbit of info that shows us or points us in the right direction as to the connection between the Forgotten Ones, Evanuris, and Old Gods, I'd be satisfied.

 

Trespasser answered a lot of things, but it also opened up so many damn questions.

[Seraphim24]

A few earthquakes would not necessarily destroy the world, in fact, depending on where they occurred and intensity, they might not even cause much damage. The worst part of the situation might just be the potential loss of Titan life itself, not the repercussions.

 

All Solas is doing is playing off the kind of fears and uncertainies people have regarding the kind of creation of the world generally. He's kinda like "Oh, you have no idea, but it's crazy back there, just trust me on this, I've gotta burn everything here down."

 

When it's actually not that hard to look back and see that nothing he says is just not true. Of course, you would rather everyone live everywhere but he's basically just saying well I think this may happen and if eliminate all these people who don't have anything to do with it that will prevent it.

[midnight tea]

Teas are not supposed to be tired, let alone midnight teas.

 

"Immortal" or "sleepless" teas perhaps. This tea has to sleep though - especially that I didn't sleep for at least 36h before I logged out. Lifelong problems with irregular sleeping patterns, you see. It's one of reasons why I went with "midnight" in the first place.

[Seraphim24]

And yes the Evanuris is problematic, even Mythal doesn't meet her image of a good ruler, to be honest, but Solas isn't the solution, he's part of the exact same problem.

[midnight tea]

It's the parable of the broken window. Losing several things to gain others isn't good if there isn't a net benefit.

 

To begin with, the Anchor wouldn't even be needed if not for the Breach and the numerous Rifts caused by it.

 

As stated in-universe, the Inquisition and the Inquisitor need to become a rallying point precisely because the explosion at the Conclave beheaded the only stable organization left in the South capable of providing an international organized response. They would have been yet another weapon for the Divine instead of the last bullet in the chamber. Not to mention that the explosion pushed Mage-Templar relations and peace talks back to square one, making it easier for Corypheus agents to take advantage of them.

But in the parable of broken windows, we're talking about hypothetical chance of spending the cost of broken glass somewhere else. While we have good reasons to believe that - without things playing out the way they did - Thedas would have *no* chance. There would be no need for the Anchor, as there would be rifts... well, because there would likely be no Veil already if Solas got his way.

 

And Justinia was in no way safer from Corypheus if he didn't have the Orb - he didn't get his the idea for claiming godhood after he got the orb after all; he got his idea after his trip to the Black City and been working towards either this or similar goal (as well a conquering South) ever since he was released. He led the Venatori when Solas's agents led them to the orb, after all. And he went after anyone who pertained any pretense of divinity... like Divine. It's one of reasons they went after Inky - barring the Anchor - in the first place. Even in dark Redcliffe, where he technically got at least most of his way, a large deal made is out of Corypheus lashing at absolutely everyone who even claims that there exists another god; in his deluded mid he also fights for claim to godhood in the final fight

 

And that's without even mentioning that he was organizing to eliminate leaders in the South as well and you already mentioned that the Divine was the only stable organization capable of providing an organized response (which, given how things were prior to Conclave I'm not convinced of).

I mean, the scheme to assassinate Celene was already underway, we have no certainty that Venatori wouldn't target Redcliffe even without explosion on Conclave, and there are war table missions for dealing with spies in Denerim castle, spying on ruler of Ferelden; with Alistair even suggesting that - since the spies were working in the kitchen - there was a chance that they were planning to poison him.

 

As for "pushing Mage-Templar relations to square one" - I disagree. It appears that during the Conclave majority of Templars were already being rounded up in Thierinfal to be corrupted by red lyrium. Lucius was already impersonated by demon, while the real one was rounding up Seekers in Caer Oswin to decimate them as well. And even Cassandra acknowledges in banter with Solas that it's very possible that the talks would go nowhere anyhow - which is one of reasons why Justinia was secretly preparing to announce the forming of reborn Inquisition in the first place, and made Cass and Leli search for appropriate figurehead, hence they went after Hawke and/or HoF. Which is why the Herald was... well... almost literally a godsend for them.

 

It almost seems that the tentative peace between what remained of Templars and Circles was only obtainable after everyone realized that there's a far bigger threat on the horizon. Both mages and former templars after all were absorbed by Inquisition and pretty much forced to work together.

 

 

However, I can see it having had a good effect on Solas. It forced him to work with others, although the positive may be optional (I mean, a Jerkquisitor isn't the best person to learn from). And being outplayed by a crazy Tevinter Magister probably has been a good reminder that he isn't as clever as he thinks he is (a bit like what happened to Morrigan after what happened at the temple of Mythal).

 

Which is why I consider it to be most interesting effect of the whole thing and why I appreciate the copious amount of irony - that an ancient, twisted horror and a straightforward baddie effectively saved the world from hands of an old, tired hero who was/is on his route to become a villain And there's no telling where repercussions of that would end (at least on redemption route), seeing that DA4 may not be the last in the franchise, or it turns out that we may need Solas's help to defeat something much worse that may yet lurk in the shadows.

[midnight tea]

You've never done something you didn't want to do, but did it anyway because you thought you had to? You've never had to, say, reject someone who tried their best but just wasn't good enough, or keep someone from something they really wanted because you know it would hurt them or others in the long run?

 

Spoiler

I doubt you've ever had to destroy an entire world because you feel that - for whatever reason - it is your responsibility to ensure the coming of another. But it's the same basic feeling. It's not like Solas just thinks his plan is evil and helps no one but decides to do it anyway. It's that he thinks his plan is evil, but for some reason - whether that be as simple as fixing his mistakes or something as tangible as stopping the Blight from destroying the world permanently - it must be done.

 

So in a way, he does think he's in the right. He believes that the net worth is positive. Why he thinks that, we're not sure. We can make the assumption that he believes it because he's stuck in the past and believes nothing in the modern world could possibly rival his in value. We can make the assumption that he believes it because the modern world is doomed if it continues and killing it a little ahead of schedule means something can be saved. We can make the assumption that he believes it because there's some other world that suffers and will continue to suffer if this one is not destroyed. 

 

But all of those are just assumptions. We can't and won't know his precise reasons for some time, I think. The simple fact of the matter is that Solas simply dislikes the method (destroying the world) that he must take in order to secure this net worth. He believes that to be wrong, but ultimately necessary to achieving whatever he's striving for.

 

I think the ultimate issue here is that we're working from different assumptions - you seem to think Solas can just give up and stop his plans. And hey, maybe he can, I don't have enough information to insist otherwise. But Solas, at least, has ruled that out as option. So, in his mind, doing nothing would be worse than doing whatever he has planned, and fail to secure this net positive.

 

Especially that he acknowledges in-game that "action isn't inherently better than inaction". He criticized the Wardens for going along with their mad plan out of their attachment to the duty they feel they need to fulfill, even if it's the last thing they do. Like... the duty itself became much more important than fighting threat when or if it actually occurs*. They pretty much force to resolve the entire issue before they think they're gone.

 

With Solas it's not as simple to say that he also has no reasons other than imagined threat or duty for the sake of duty - while we're yet to get full details, the story so far makes it seem like he has to act now or he or the world loses the chance of either restoring things how they were, or saving people who are still waiting to be saved.

 

*(which brings a another intriguing point - those were Orlesian Wardens that were doing all this. But Orlesian Wardens aren't the whole order. So why were they convinced that if they're gone, the world is potentially doomed to future Blights? Was this just a result of machinations of the Nightmare that fueled their paranoia? Or do they think that Anderfelian Wardens aren't really up to the potential task? We do hear Riordan that he doesn't have much of a high opinion about Wardens near Weisshaupt, and I wonder if it means that things are even worse than they were 10 years ago. What are we going to discover is going on there, I wonder?)

[Seraphim24]

I don't get why in all the "so many competing interpretations, the complexity!" One of those interpretations can't simply be he's a terrible person.

 

Then it's, oh but no not that he's not that kind of person, all the complexity and possibilities except that one.

[lynroy]

No, you get real! /ten-year-old

ROFL I saw the edit. Knew I should have quoted it.

[midnight tea]

You do realize the big change Flemeth told Hawke could be the plot of DAI?

 

... And it IS part of the plot. Flemeth (and Viddassala) literally call Inquisitor "the Herald of change/naw age".

 

And we know from David Gaider that DAI was planned to be twice as long in terms of length of the story. And then he said that that part of the story still exists and is now in Patrick Weekes' hands. It's a clear indicator that the "plot of DAI" is actually still going

[Seraphim24]

No, you get real! /ten-year-old

 

 

All right, you are right I'll just focus on the main points. Solas is a...

 

Liar

Trash heap of an individual

Disgusting person

Amoral person

Dysfunctional person

 

and has virtually no value to the world or society (essentially)

 

IMHO

[midnight tea]

All right, you are right I'll just focus on the main points. Solas is a...

 

Liar

Trash heap of an individual

Disgusting person

Amoral person

Dysfunctional person

 

and has virtually no value to the world or society (essentially)

 

To quote the Dude again:

[Seraphim24]

To quote the Dude again:

 

Ok, sorry IMHO, I'll edit that in.

 

Someone told me once "we know it's your opinion, you don't have to state it every time" so I'm never sure on the protocol.

[The Elder King]

 

I did say Solas disagrees with my opinion

I never said I don't understand his reasoning. I just said I disagree with it, and that's different from the situation in Arrival.

... And it IS part of the plot. Flemeth (and Viddassala) literally call Inquisitor "the Herald of change/naw age".

 

And we know from David Gaider that DAI was planned to be twice as long in terms of length of the story. And then he said that that part of the story still exists and is now in Patrick Weekes' hands. It's a clear indicator that the "plot of DAI" is actually still going

Well, I do agree with that this. I didn't mean the topic of DAI ended. I meant that Flemeth's words might not refer to some beneficial change connected to Solas' plans.

[midnight tea]

 

Well, I do agree with that this. I didn't mean the topic of DAI ended. I meant that Flemeth's words might not refer to some beneficial change connected to Solas' plans.

 

True, but from the way both Flemeth and Sandal word things (and I know that they both should be taken with a grain of salt) it almost looks like they're looking forward to, or - at the very least - that this change *may* lead to something beneficial... well, so long as those who leap to the abyss find out that they can fly

[The Elder King]

True, but from the way both Flemeth and Sandal word things (and I know that they both should be taken with a grain of salt) it almost looks like they're looking forward to, or - at the very least - that this change *may* lead to something beneficial... well, so long as those who leap to the abyss find out that they can fly

That's true, though it might not be related to Solas' plans.

As I said before, I'm open to see how Bioware will deliver this plot. It's just that so far based one the info we have, and Solas' direct words, his plans might prove to have more negative effects on people in Thedas then the opposite. We'll see how things go in DA4.

[Seraphim24]

I must confess, I don't understand you midnight tea, aren't you a Witcher fan? Solas and Geralt and co. couldn't be further apart from each other.

 

Anyway, if you care to answer, if not welps.

[The Elder King]

I must confess, I don't understand you midnight tea, aren't you a Witcher fan? Solas and Geralt and co. couldn't be further apart from each other.

 

Anyway, if you care to answer, if not welps.

I don't get your post . One could be a fan of both series, and like both Solas and Geralt. 

[Seraphim24]

I don't get your post . One could be a fan of both series, and like both Solas and Geralt. 

 

They're pretty different people, though, that's why I asked.

[midnight tea]

That's true, though it might not be related to Solas' plans.

As I said before, I'm open to see how Bioware will deliver this plot. It's just that so far based one the info we have, and Solas' direct words, his plans might prove to have more negative effects on people in Thedas then the opposite. We'll see how things go in DA4.

 

Oh, I'm not negating that it may either be unrelated to Solas, or Solas's plans may either backfire again, or end up negatively for the world. At this point we just don't know. But it does seem that it's almost certain that at one point or another the world will change - at least in some way. Which... in a world that is basically a magical barrier away from being shaped by will and imagination and sentient beings born from thoughts and feelins, may mean a lot of things.

[The Elder King]

They're pretty different people, though, that's why I asked.

Well, yes, but people often like completely different characters.

For example, I like both Alistair and Loghain