4635 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Well, yes, but people often like completely different characters.

For example, I like both Alistair and Loghain

 

You normally don't expect people to like two things that like oppose each other directly though.

[Ellawynn]

I don't get why in all the "so many competing interpretations, the complexity!" One of those interpretations can't simply be he's a terrible person.

 

Then it's, oh but no not that he's not that kind of person, all the complexity and possibilities except that one.

 

Feel free to declare him a terrible person. Him being awful is a perfectly valid interpretation - it isn't, mind you, completely exclusive of complexity - you can be complex and still basically be a bad person. Acknowledging Solas has depth and is highly open to interpretation isn't a statement of morality one way or the other.

[midnight tea]

I must confess, I don't understand you midnight tea, aren't you a Witcher fan? Solas and Geralt and co. couldn't be further apart from each other.

 

Anyway, if you care to answer, if not welps.

 

The Elder King already summed my thoughts perfectly - why should it matter? Do you think that people can only like *one* type of character or story... or something?

 

... Or maybe I look at more than just superficial differences and either enjoy the themes I find in both, or appreciate them for different things, of subjects and issues they make me think about?

 

Plus - you realize that Geralt is a surrogate father for a girl pretty much everyone told him can be a grave danger to the world? She proves that amply in the book, where she uses her unique talent to cross time and space and unwittingly seeds the plague she finds in one world in another. By logic sometimes found in this thread this means that she should be viewed as a menace with no redeeming qualities.

 

Yet at the same time the same girl is - at least in TW3 - absolutely crucial to prevent the future destruction of not just one world, but all of them.

[Seraphim24]

Plus - you realize that Geralt is a surrogate father for a girl pretty much everyone told him can be a grave danger for the world? She proves that amply in the book, where she uses her unique talent to cross time and space and unwittingly seeds the plague she finds in one world in another. By logic sometimes found in this thread this means that she should be viewed as a menace with no redeeming qualities.

 

As you say though "unwittingly" the difference between the two is their intention.

 

It's also probably why the world doesn't get destroyed.

[midnight tea]

@midnight tea: So...you're saying we should be thanking Solas for giving Corypheus the orb? We should thank him for all the death and suffering that decision caused?

 

No, that's not what I'm saying, in fact I addressed the issue even before you asked at least a few times in this thread already. That you ignore it, or are more interested in making me look like I say that "we should thank Solas for giving Corypheus the Orb" speaks more of yourself than it does of me or what I actually said.

 

And what I say is that I always look at the whole picture and see both good and bad - be it intentional or no. That the whole thing relied on a chain of cosmic coincidences disperses the blame or credit anyhow, but that's beside the point. The fact remains that if Solas didn't give Cory the orb and Cory didn't take it at the conclave we'd not get the conclusion we have now - with the South saved and reorganized and potentially ready to push away both the threat of war with Qunari or a plan to be destroyed by ancient demigod. Who, I'd like to note, didn't just sit idly and instead of helping (or 'helping' Corypheus) he actively worked against him and later enables the current hero of Thedas to go after Solas with the intention of stopping him or making him change his plans.

 

How it will play out in a future we're yet to see. But the situation as it is now allows us to gain certain perspective in hindsight AND conclude that there may be possibility that our future antagonist may yet be redemable.

 

I mean, it's not like redeemable villains who did something bad (including really bad things) gain a chance to redeem themselves due to opportunity that arose through various twists of fate or unintended consequences is an unknown trope in fiction, OR Bioware games.

[midnight tea]

As you say though "unwittingly" the difference between the two is their intention.

 

It's also probably why the world doesn't get destroyed.

 

But the intention of Solas isn't as straightforward as "destroying the world", nor it was his intention to give the Orb to Cory to empower him. We've discussed that in depth already, even on recent pages.

[midnight tea]

You normally don't expect people to like two things that like oppose each other directly though.

 

Er... maybe YOU don't expect it. It's a pretty common thing that happens though, at least among people who don't judge characters based on superficial reasons like "opposing each other directly".

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, that's not what I'm saying, in fact I addressed the issue even before you asked at least a few times in this thread already. That you ignore it, or are more interested in making me look like I say that "we should thank Solas for giving Corypheus the Orb" speaks more of yourself than it does of me or what I actually said.

That's why I was asking. I wanted to clarify what you meant. Also, because you have explained before doesn't mean those who ask you later are ignoring you or trying to make you look bad. This thread is 92 pages long. People aren't going to see every post.

[midnight tea]

That's why I was asking. I wanted to clarify what you meant. Also, because you have explained before doesn't mean those who ask you later are ignoring you. This thread is 92 pages long. People aren't going to see every post. 

But of course you try to turn this into me trying to make you look bad thing. I'd say I was disappointed but for that to be true I'd need to be surprised.

 

I'm sorry that you have such impression, but I should ask of you to stop doing the very same thing you keep accusing me of - how do you think you sound when you ask things worded like that: "you're saying we should be thanking Solas for giving Corypheus the orb? We should thank him for all the death and suffering that decision caused?"

 

The implication is clear. That you don't see what you're doing and attribute it to "the opposition" sadly is a no surprise either.

[lynroy]

But of course you try to turn this into me trying to make you look bad thing while attacking me personally.

How was that a personal attack?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm sorry that you have such impression, but I should ask of you to stop doing the very same thing you keep accusing me of - how do you think you sound when you ask things worded like that: "you're saying we should be thanking Solas for giving Corypheus the orb? We should thank him for all the death and suffering that decision caused?"

 

The implication is clear. That you don't see what you're doing and attribute it to "the opposition" sadly is a no surprise either.

I actually deleted that post before you even answered, because when rereading it I saw how it was worded badly. But sure, I don't see what I'm doing. 

[midnight tea]

I actually deleted that post before you even answered, because when rereading it I saw how it was worded badly. But yeah, I totally don't see what I'm doing. 

 

You can't  at me when you send a post and then edit or delete it either when I'm responding or responded already to what was in the post at that time. Nor you can blame me for impression I got, when you saw problems with it yourself.

 

In any case, I'm glad to have this misunderstanding cleared. I believe I've also extensively answered your initial question.

[Seraphim24]

But the intention of Solas isn't as straightforward as "destroying the world", nor it was his intention to give the Orb to Cory to empower him. We've discussed that in depth already, even on recent pages.

 

Well, now I'm going to play the "In your opinion card"

 

I'm going to add that I have a crush on Poland generally, such as with the amazing music of Jan A. P. Kaczmarek

 

Spoiler

 

OT though, I apologize.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You can't  at me when you send a post and then edit or delete it either when I'm responding or responded already that was in the post at that time. Nor you can me blame for impression I got.

Yes I can. You accuse me of not seeing what I do when I do exactly that. You showed no sign of responding nor did I think you would since I deleted it before your reply to another earlier post was posted.

 

In any case, I'm glad to have this misunderstanding cleared. I believe I've also extensively answered your initial question.

Yes. Let's just put it behind us. As for you extensively answering my question, In still have questions about it but will ask when cooler heads prevail. 

[midnight tea]

Yes I can. You accuse me of not seeing what I do when I do exactly that. You showed no sign of responding nor did I think you would since I deleted it before your reply to a previous post was posted.

 

You wanted me to clarify and didn't think I'd take my time to clarify ? I mean it's not like you left your question yesterday, or even a few hours before.

 

And I "accuse" you of things, because this is not a separated incident. I've already called you out on this at least once already. That you see that you word things wrong *sometimes* is a credit to you, but it happens frequently enough to leave people with impression that you don't see what you'e doing either when you antagonize people or make short blanket statements without really explaining what or why. I believe someone else also called you out on that even a few pages ago.

 

That's probably as far as we should go with this. It's not my intention to antagonize you, and if you feel I do I apologize.

[Seraphim24]

I think what we could use some Jan A. P. to simmer the tensions.

 

Spoiler

[midnight tea]

Well, now I'm going to play the "In your opinion card"

 

I'm going to add that I have a crush on Poland generally, such as with the amazing music of Jan A. P. Kaczmarek

 

Spoiler

 

OT though, I apologize.

 

And hey, it's fair - that's your opinion. At least we're settled on that, as I don't think neither you are going to be convinced that Solas is more than just evil incarnate, nor I'd be convinced that Solas is not much more than evil incarnate. Though I think we're going to agree that we're both going to wait to see how it's going to play out in future title.

 

And it's cool to hear that you like my county in general or enjoy music from our composers

[Seraphim24]

Though I think we're going to agree that we're both going to wait to see how it's going to play out in future title.

 

Hey lets not get ahead of ourselves. I think we agreed to disagree about a current disposition on Solas, as in, precluding the future, if you want to wait, more power to you.

 

But yes, tis very pretty music.

[lynroy]

You know, my brother didn't Solas only because he was bald.

[midnight tea]

You know, my brother didn't Solas only because he was bald.

 

The "bald" thing as certainly something I saw and was like... huh.

 

I don't like guys with TOO MUCH hair (hence I'm yet to romance Blackwall, though that doesn't mean I don't like him), but too little hair is also not what I'd find... well, maybe not "attractive", because we're not just talking about attractiveness, but it was certainly the first thing that we can spot about Solas - he's a bald elf.

 

With that said I immediately had "eastern monk" sort of connotation in my head on that, as well as a general feeling that he sort of transcends the world he's in... which now we can say he does, as in literally. The feeling got strengthened even more the first time I saw him wearing a wolf pelt thrown over one shoulder, which I think is vaguely linked (in general consciousness) with meditating monks from various religions or cultures from Asia... which I personally think we view pretty positively? At least that's my impression.

 

[Sah291]

With that said I immediately had "eastern monk" sort of connotation in my head and a general feeling that he sort of transcends the world he's in... which now we can say he does, as in literally. The feeling got strengthened even more the first time saw him wearing a wolf pelt thrown over one shoulder, which I think is vaguely linked (in general consciousness) with meditating monks from various religions or cultures from Asia... which I personally think we view pretty positively? At least that's my impression.
 

Yeah, I sorta got that impression too, like some of his scenes have this sort of bittersweet mono no aware feeling to them, that you sometimes see in Japanese samurai stories. I'm guessing he was designed to look sort of like a jedi. But, he strikes me as this character who is really sort of struggling with that sense of impermanence and transience around him (he can't let his people go), I suppose an immortal would, who has watched everything change around him, while he stayed the same. But he's not like Flemeth who is all "there can be no peace without an end".

[Almostfaceman]

Well, now I'm going to play the "In your opinion card"

 

It's not just an opinion, however. Solas tells us plainly that he raised the Veil to imprison the Evanuris and that in imprisoning the Evanuris he saved the world. 

 

If he is lying and really wanted to destroy the world then why does he feel guilty now and want to take the Veil down to restore the elven people? If he wanted to destroy the world in the first place, that would include the elven people. So he wouldn't feel guilty now. 

 

Obviously, he thought the elven people free of the Evanuris would do better and he thought the was saving the world. Why would he want to save the world? Because he cares about his people. 

 

So yes, the effects Solas put into place by raising the Veil are as unintentional as Ciri spreading the Catriona plague. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Almostfaceman:  But... in his zeal he failed - utterly.  

 

So, clearly his methods were grossly flawed.  

 

And yet, he wants to repeat them.

[FloraTheElf]

I've followed this thread intently for a while and thought I'd throw my two cents to the wind, for anyone who's interested. . I'm sorry if my thoughts are all over the place but I hope to make them coherent half as well as others have made their thoughts all ready.

My first DA game was DAI. My first play through was hours and hours long because I made it a point to explore every little crevice and read every codex, especially since the lore confused me in the beginning though that didn't take the fun out of the game in the slightest. My first impression of Solas was incredibly lackluster. I immediately loved all the scenes with companions and talked often to them all, including Solas though he just never stood out. Needless to say my go to mage ended up being the charming, dashing Dorian. Because Solas never really caught my attention, he seldomly if at all was included in my party.

Fast forward to Trespasser, I was in complete shock at the reveal ending (somehow I missed Flemeth/Mythal call him Dread Wolf at the end game, so I had an awesome reveal). After the completion of my first play through, I was left wondering why such an unflavored character ended up being our big bad. When I started my second play through I STILL left Solas behind from my party to romance Dorian and catch myself up on more of the lore, I couldn't bring myself to care about him.

My third play through I decided to try a romance with Solas and see how the story went (and that's only because my boyfriend claimed Sera and I sort of promised that I wouldn't take his bae ). I immediately realized what I had been missing. Somehow, even though I tried to be incredibly thorough during the games, I previously missed Solas's personal quest both times, and im not even sure how that happened. But holey smokes did I realize there was more to that guy than I thought. He actually scared me slightly with his reaction from the outcome of his spirit friend. This dull character had some personality, color me surprised. I ended up taking him with me everywhere along with Sera and Cole, and I think the combination of those companions really fleshed out his character for me. I loved his protective nature over Cole (of that's arguably the right thing to say) and his interactions with Sera. Not to mention I thought his romance with Lavellan was by far the most intriguing of all I've tried, not to mention the scenes were lovely.

So I suppose what I mean to say is that I've grown fond of Solas's character incredibly, and I started out as someone who felt it a chore to actually try to get to "know" him. I know much of this thread has turned into a moral/ethics issue but to stay out of that I just think Solas makes for an incredible story, whether you have a LI or a friend or a meanquisiter. That's just my humble thoughts on the matter

[Almostfaceman]

@Almostfaceman:  But... in his zeal he failed - utterly.  

 

So, clearly his methods were grossly flawed.  

 

And yet, he wants to repeat them.

 

What method is he repeating? 

 

And Solas, while sad, is a can-do kinda guy.