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[midnight tea]

Different definitions for the same word is not a metaphor.  

 

"her heart burst from the pain" is a metaphor. 

 

Solas does not mean "the planet" he means "the civilization".  

 

Are you not aware that one of the definitions of the word "world" is "human society"? 

 

Missed that literature class in the school too, ey? And trying to school a person who professionally works with metaphors of any kinds on a daily basis as well, yayyy.... 

 

The very dictionary definition of a metaphor is "a word or phrase for one thing that is used to refer to another thing in order to show or suggest that they are similar."

 

Geez, you yourself show us exactly how Solas's usage of the word "world" is a metaphor for "the civilization"...

[Medhia_Nox]

I admire a can-do spirit. But I'm not cheering on millions of people dying in Thedas. Is that what you meant by I was cheering on Solas? Because you didn't mention that I had mentioned that I'll stop him if he tries to kill millions of people in Thedas. 

 

You seem to forget I say that. 

 

So yeah, I was cheering on his can-do spirit. It's what made him free slaves and save the world thousands of years ago. 

 

I also generally admire it in people. The can-do spirit. As long as the person isn't trying to murder people. 

 

And Solas is trying to murder people.

 

He ALREADY murdered people... if not the Divine, then certainly Felassan.  Does he have "justifications" for them?

I take people as a whole... not as individual parts... so a "can do" murderer isn't someone I can cheer on regardless of whether or not I admire a trait or not.  

Just curious how people compartmentalize aspects of characters. 

 

@midnight tea: Your claim to professionalism is pointless.  Different definitions for something aren't "metaphors".

 

A fork in the road and utensils aren't "metaphors" for one another.   If I said:  "There's a fork in the road." and I mean... there's actually a fork in the road... that's not a metaphorical "fork" in the road where I can choose between two paths. 

[Almostfaceman]

And Solas is trying to murder people.

 

He ALREADY murdered people... if not the Divine, then certainly Felassan.  Does he have "justifications" for them?

I take people as a whole... not as individual parts... so a "can do" murderer isn't someone I can cheer on regardless of whether or not I admire a trait or not.  

Just curious how people compartmentalize aspects of characters. 

 

For me, the jury is out on whether or not he's murdering people or if this is a situation where he's actually killing some healthy cells in the process of killing the cancer. 

 

If it turns out he's just killing healthy cells for no good reason, I drop him like Deadpool drops Francis.

 

If it turns out that saving the elven people is actually a good thing for the rest of Thedas (hints I've mentioned... if you missed them just look back a few pages if you feel so inclined) then maybe the choice will be harder to make about who lives or dies. 

 

There's more story, lore, background, stuff to reveal and we haven't had the chance to kill/not kill Solas yet. We'll see what happens. 

[midnight tea]

@midnight tea: Your claim to professionalism is pointless.  Different definitions for something aren't "metaphors".

 

A fork in the road and utensils aren't "metaphors" for one another.   If I said:  "There's a fork in the road." and I mean... there's actually a fork in the road... that's not a metaphorical "fork" in the road where I can choose between two paths. 

 

You seem to completely misunderstand what a metaphor is.

 

A fork IS a utensil, yet - since it's vaguely similar in shape - it can be used as a metaphor for a path diverging. So the very definition/word for the the path diverging is actually based on the frikking metaphor, which - by definition of the word - uses the word for one thing that is used to refer to another thing in order to show or suggest that they are similar.

 

Same way the world - which is a collection of everything on the planet, including a planet itself, can be used as a metaphor for the civilization, or something smaller like "my clan/family used to be my whole world" or "I will save the elvhen people, even if THIS world must die". Metaphor on all counts.

[Medhia_Nox]

Civilization =/= empire.

And yes, the idea of an unchanging and fixed civilization and way of life, comes at a cost to keep it that way, usually.

The ancient elves weren't conquered, their empire fell due to internal conflicts, civil war, etc. I think that's what Mythal means when she says what happened could not be changed. Remember what she tells Hawke in the beginning of DA2. Some things can't be saved, or are beyond fixing, and when that happens, sometimes it is best to let it pass so something new can be built. Peace can't be built on a strained foundation.

 

Oh, I definitely know what Flemeth says it why I believe she's putting herself in a position to stop Solas and always has been.

 

All empires are civilizations... 

[Medhia_Nox]

You seem to completely misunderstand what s metaphor is.

 

A fork IS a utensil, yet - since it's vaguely similar in shape - it can be used as a metaphor for a path diverging. So the very definition/word for the the path diverging is actually based on the frikking metaphor, which - by definition of the word - uses the word for one thing that is used to refer to another thing in order to show or suggest that they are similar.

 

Same way the world - which is a collection of everything on the planet, including a planet itself, can be used as a metaphor for the civilization, or something smaller like "my whole clan/family used to be my whole world" or "I will save the elvhen people, even if THIS world must die". Metaphor on all counts.

 

I did not say it could not be used as a metaphor.  I did not say that at all. 

 

But...if I say there is an actual fork (utensil) just sitting in the road... I'm not using it as a metaphor for a diverging path.  I'm just saying a freaking fork (utensil) is in the road.

 

You have turned everything Solas says into a metaphor to make it all sound the way you want it to... which ultimately is the failure of metaphorical dialogue to convey any sort of worthwhile message.

 

But, at the end of the day - if he says: "as the world burns in the roiling chaos" he might actually mean... the world, will scorch and die, in the chaotic upheaval caused by the collapse of the Fade and NOT... "as bad perceptions are removed in the remodeling"  or whatever else we want to make up to believe what we want to believe.

 

Sometimes people say what they mean... and after all, have we not said over and over:  "What reason does Solas have to lie at this point?" 

 

"People who speak in metaphors should shampoo my crotch."  - Melvin Udall, As Good As It Gets

[Sah291]

Oh, I definitely know what Flemeth says it why I believe she's putting herself in a position to stop Solas and always has been.
 
All empires are civilizations...

All empires are civilizations, not all civilizations are empires. You don't need an empire to have a society.

As for Solas, it's interesting, because he seems to be fighting with his past self more than anyone.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Sah291:  And yet, the elves had an empire... so they also had a civilization... and the word "world" can be used in place of "civilization" as per Merriam Webster's Dictionary.  

 

Simple Definition of world
the world : the earth and all the people and things on it
: a part of the world and the people and things that exist there
: human society

Full Definition of world
1
a :  the earthly state of human existence
b :  life after death —used with a qualifier <the next world>
2:  the earth with its inhabitants and all things upon it
3:  individual course of life :  career

 

So... yes, Solas was talking about destroying the elven civilization... just like he's talking about now destroying all human civilizations.  There's no metaphor.  He saying: "I'm going to wipe it out."  Done, end of story. 

[midnight tea]

I did not say it could not be used as a metaphor.  I did not say that at all. 

 

But...if I say there is an actual fork (utensil) just sitting in the road... I'm not using it as a metaphor for a diverging path.  I'm just saying a freaking fork is in the road.

 

What you saying that there's a fork on the road has anything to do with anything? You'd likely have to clarify that you're talking about LITERAL and not metaphorical fork anyhow, since forks don't usually lie on roads and most people will assume that you're talking about METAPHORICAL fork to describe the road splitting up. You know why? Because a lot of our language, and in fact communication, relies in large part on metaphors and context anyhow.

 

You have turned everything Solas says into a metaphor to make it all sound the way you want it to... 

 

At this point you're just turning on a heel and accusing people of things you're guilty yourself.

 

Plus, I've made my position clear - I said that since things Solas (or Flemeth) says base a lot on metaphor (or misdirection or obfuscation) it's highly possible that their words shouldn't be taken literally. I've made no definite statements that "this 100% means that" - that's your territory. I merely say that it's a high possibility. There's a difference here.

 

"People who speak in metaphors should shampoo my crotch."  - Melvin Udall, As Good As It Gets

 

What a sad world you both must be living in.

[IllustriousT]

Melvin Udall would probably cheer Solas on - until he falls in love - unlike Solas. 

 

"Sometimes love just ain't enough" - Patty Smyth.

[Seraphim24]

"I want a doughnut"

 

-Guinevere

[Medhia_Nox]

 

What a sad world you both must be living in.

 

"Sad is happy for deep people."  Sally Sparrow, "Blink" Doctor Who

[Sah291]

@Medhia_Nox,

When I say the world is not equivalent to an empire, I'm talking about a state. States are routinely created and dissolved, throughout history, and the world tends not to end. These are political arrangements, and are always changing.

That is not to say they can never cause literal destruction to society though, when war is often the means for both creating and toppling states.

But you're right, we can't know just what he means by "world". He may very well be referring neither to human civilizations or empires, but the very existence of all modern Thedas and everything in it.

I'm just trying to look at it from the perspective of who the dread wolf was, what he originally did, and what exactly he was rebelling against.

[midnight tea]

"Sad is happy for deep people."  Sally Sparrow, "Blink" Doctor Who

 

Oh look, a quote rife with metaphors.

[Medhia_Nox]

"Deep" is the closest word you get to a metaphor in the sentence.

 

Sad means literal sadness

Happy means literal happiness

People means literal people

 

And even deep means... literally...

 

3

a :  difficult to penetrate or comprehend :  recondite <deep mathematical problems>
b :  mysterious, obscure <a deep dark secret>
c :  grave in nature or effect <in deepest disgrace>
d :  of penetrating intellect :  wise <a deep thinker>
e :  intensely engrossed or immersed <she was deep in her book>
f :  characterized by profundity of feeling or quality <a deep sleep>; also :  deep-seated <deep religious beliefs>

 

None of that means something else.... or is at all symbolism.

 

You "sure" you do this professionally?  Or is that metaphorical too? 

[lynroy]

So, that Solas guy. He's done some crazy ****. Dude's got problems.

[Secret Rare]

 

With that said I immediately had "eastern monk" sort of connotation in my head on that, as well as a general feeling that he sort of transcends the world he's in... which now we can say he does, as in literally. The feeling got strengthened even more the first time I saw him wearing a wolf pelt thrown over one shoulder, which I think is vaguely linked (in general consciousness) with meditating monks from various religions or cultures from Asia... which I personally think we view pretty positively? At least that's my impression.

 

The clothing doesn't make the monk.

[Secret Rare]

@Almostfaceman:  But... in his zeal he failed - utterly.  

 

So, clearly his methods were grossly flawed.  

 

And yet, he wants to repeat them.

So much for I'm not like Corypheus.......

[midnight tea]

The clothing doesn't make the monk.

 

Care to actually read the comment you actually respond to? I said there are things about Solas we can vaguely link with eastern monks, and it's not just clothing.

[midnight tea]

"Deep" is the closest word you get to a metaphor in the sentence.

 

Sad means literal sadness

Happy means literal happiness

People means literal people

 

And even deep means... literally...

 

3

a :  difficult to penetrate or comprehend :  recondite <deep mathematical problems>
b :  mysterious, obscure <a deep dark secret>
c :  grave in nature or effect <in deepest disgrace>
d :  of penetrating intellect :  wise <a deep thinker>
e :  intensely engrossed or immersed <she was deep in her book>
f :  characterized by profundity of feeling or quality <a deep sleep>; also :  deep-seated <deep religious beliefs>

 

None of that means something else.... or is at all symbolism.

 

You "sure" you do this professionally?  Or is that metaphorical too? 

 

...

 

I'm not even sure we can try and discuss it further, seeing the extent of your lack of comprehension or misunderstanding of the concept. It's like trying to describe a color to a blind person.

 

Like... you realize that the word DEEP literally means just something 'extending far down from the top or surface' and ALL of the "literal" takes on the word you've given, from a to f are actually metaphors?

 

“A metaphor is not language, it is an idea expressed by language, an idea that in its turn functions as a symbol to express something.” – Susanne Langer

[Ellawynn]

So, that Solas guy. He's done some crazy ****. Dude's got problems.

 

Sexy problems.

 

(Goddamit where's the Solas Eyebrow Gif when you need it...)

[midnight tea]

You mean this one?

[Ellawynn]

You mean this one?

 

No, the other one! The flip-floppy one! That one exists, right? I didn't make it up?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Sexy problems.

 

(Goddamit where's the Solas Eyebrow Gif when you need it...)

 

Solas is Sexy ?

 

 

If you want a sexy Elven wizard, check this guy out:-

 

[Seraphim24]

A fork is a utensil. Metaphors come from civilization. The world has meaning. Not all empires are created equal. Volcanos can spread ash and cause disruption greater than their geographic center.

 

It has been alleged that Solas is basically like

 

A Japanese Samurai

 

An Eastern Monk (although, arguably the only point of relation is his clothes)

 

the Maker

 

the little engine that could

 

Ciri from the Witcher 3

 

 

Ah, you all don't realize it, but this thread has become a work of art. Thanks again to patricia08 who has proven most capable with the interesting threads.