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[midnight tea]

Well sorry to burst your bubble mostly made of shabby dictionary meanings exhausted on the minimum terms about figures of speech,but i don't base the definition of allegory and metaphors based upon dictionaries meaning but rather on my own readings on  Harald Weinrich.

 

If you don't respect well-established definitions and try and force everyone to accept YOUR definition of words or concepts you can't expect to be taken seriously - especially in the context of the entire discussion we're having here.

 

You could try and have (somewhere else) an in-depth debate about nuances of defining an allegory, but *not* outright rejecting well-established and well-accepted definitions in favor of "your own readings" of one obscure scholar from more than 50 years ago. That's pseudo-intellectual to the boot.

[midnight tea]

Are you German? I've often wondered about that, since you don't seem to use the English language the same way that an American uses the language. It's like you use a Google translator with your posts. 

 

So you're losing something in translation, sometimes. 

 

I have to admit, I've been wondering that as well. The use of English is... unusual and difficult to understand at times. I figured that I probably shouldn't point that out, considering that English isn't my native language as well - but the truth is, it is indeed sometimes difficult to understand what German is saying or attempting to say, which can be exasperating, especially given the frequent hyperbolic nature of his claims. Perhaps indeed something gets lost in translation, doubly to me so.

[German Soldier]

If you don't respect well-established definitions and try and force everyone to accept YOUR definition of words or concepts you can't expect to be taken seriously - especially in the context of the entire discussion we're having here.

 

You could try and have (somewhere else) an in-depth debate about nuances of defining an allegory, but *not* outright rejecting well-established and well-accepted definitions in favor of "your own readings" of one obscure scholar from more than 50 years ago. That's pseudo-intellectual to the boot.

Well established definitions  you mean Yourdictionary.com?

Obscure  scholar?One of the greatest modern scholars on  figures of speech? 

It is not my own reading you don't have to go further beyond the wikipedia page of Allegory to discover that is a form of extended metaphor.

All the conversations about it popped up from one personal headcanon of an user that implied that Solas is curing the world from something which is just a falsehood.

[Seraphim24]

I just wanted to stop by and say I do understand German Soldier perfectly well. It's more densely packed is all I'm noticing, I've noticed some users do the same thing, just like some people tend to draw things out more.

 

Not to mention sometimes people are speaking or using "English" in the normal way and I have no idea what's going on.

 

I am personally slightly tired, no interest in re-entering the substance here, but just a reminder to keep in mind what you are experiencing may not reflect other people's experiences.

 

That is all.

[German Soldier]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...Merriam-Webster

 

Are you German? I've often wondered about that, since you don't seem to use the English language the same way that an American uses the language. It's like you use a Google translator with your posts. 

 

So you're losing something in translation, sometimes. 

 

You can't burst my bubble, mate. You're an opinion on a message board. 

I don't need to abuse the use of a translator when i'm making a post only in some cases but that  hardly implies that those headcanons about Solas had a sense.

Köln so yes I'm from Bundesrepublik Deutschland and now that Solas knows it i imagine he will come to turn me into a statue.

[Almostfaceman]

 

Well established definitions  you mean Yourdictionary.com?

Obscure  scholar?One of the greatest modern scholars on  figures of speech? 

It is not my own reading you don't have to go further beyond the wikipedia page of Allegory to discover that is a form of extended metaphor.

All the conversations about it popped up from one personal headcanon of an user that implied that Solas is curing the world from something which is just a falsehood.

 

 

http://www.merriam-w...igure of speech

Definition of figure of speech

:  a form of expression (as a simile or metaphor) used to convey meaning or heighten effect often by comparing or identifying one thing with another that has a meaning or connotation familiar to the reader or listener

 

http://www.merriam-w...ionary/allegory

Simple Definition of allegory

: a story in which the characters and events are symbols that stand for ideas about human life or for a political or historical situation

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

Full Definition of allegory

plural allegories

1:  the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also :  an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression

2:  a symbolic representation :  emblem 

[Almostfaceman]

I don't need to abuse the use of a translator when i'm making a post only in some cases but that  hardly implies that those headcanons about Solas had a sense.

Köln so yes I'm from Bundesrepublik Deutschland and now that Solas knows it i imagine he will come to turn me into a statue.

 

Again, I get it. You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. I went over why in previous posts. At length. Not going to do it again. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Who are Solas parents?

(best question in the entire Thread)

[Secret Rare]

Weekes said that he intended to explain if Solas is born from elven parents or transformed from a spirit to an elf thanks to Mythal.

In all honesty we don't even know if ancient elves can have children but it is somehow implied and discussed that they came to life from spirits.

http://forum.bioware...passerspoilers/

[lynroy]

When a mommy elf and a daddy elf give each other a very special hug....

[Seraphim24]

 

Weekes said that he intended to explain if Solas is born from elven parents or transformed from a spirit to an elf thanks to Mythal.

In all honesty we don't even know if ancient elves can have children but it is somehow implied and discussed that they came to life from spirits.

http://forum.bioware...passerspoilers/

 

 

Keep thinking of this with your pic Rare..

 

Spoiler

[Dragongirl24]

When a mommy elf and a daddy elf give each other a very special hug....

 

I bring the popcorn who will bring the drinks and Lynroy can you tell me what happens next ?

 

*sits down and waits impatiently for the next part of the story*

 

Sorry to be off topic here.

[midnight tea]

 

Well established definitions  you mean Yourdictionary.com?

Obscure  scholar?One of the greatest modern scholars on  figures of speech? 

It is not my own reading you don't have to go further beyond the wikipedia page of Allegory to discover that is a form of extended metaphor.

All the conversations about it popped up from one personal headcanon of an user that implied that Solas is curing the world from something which is just a falsehood.

 

 

Spoiler

There was no "personal headcanon" - it was a small theory clearly made with no assumption that it's 100% true; merely a possibility in face of uncertainty.

 

"For me the jury is out on whether or not he's murdering people or if this is a situation where he's actually killing some healthy cells in the process of killing the cancer."

 

And you turned it into a "headcanon" and attacked it as if the premise was made with conviction that this is exactly what happens; and not only that it simply happens on metaphorical level (because it was a relatively simple metaphor; not the extended version of it) - but that apparently someone thinks that this is literally what happens.

 

...And then you've turned it into bash-fest about allegory. For no good reason I can think of, other than to try and flaunt your intellectual superiority... which can't happen, when your entire premise on which you began an argument about the allegory is a.) unnecessary to the discussion b.) based on a strawman.

 

And yes - Harald Weinrich is a fairly obscure scholar. If he was more than that, most modern education systems in many Western countries would either have him mentioned of have his books to be a part of school curriculum. Or his books would be advised to be read to educate ourselves on the topic, just like "The Story Of Art", the work of Ernst Gombrich, is a recommended read not just for most people who study art, but anyone who wants to learn about art in general. It's widely considered to be a seminal work that serves as a great introduction to the field. 

And I've found no such title for Weinrich - nothing that could be widely considered important, even if only on a matter of allegories. In fact I've found no title (that is translated to English at least) that focuses extensively on them. He is indeed obscure, even if a fine scholar in his own right. So not only he's superfluous to the discussion that was led (on international, English-speaking forum), you can't seriously expect for anyone to bend to your personal definitions of the word or concept, because that's what "your own readings" implies is happening.

 

That's all I will to say on this matter. Let's move on.

[midnight tea]

 

Weekes said that he intended to explain if Solas is born from elven parents or transformed from a spirit to an elf thanks to Mythal.

In all honesty we don't even know if ancient elves can have children but it is somehow implied and discussed that they came to life from spirits.

http://forum.bioware...passerspoilers/

 

 

Well no, not exactly - he didn't say he "intended to explain" whether Solas is born from parents or no, he said that the it's one the questions he's looking forward to answering - or not - in future content. So it seems to me that there are some details the game (and its writers) want to withhold about the matter and it might not be as simple as having parents or even manifesting from the Fade (like, say, Cole). Truth is we don't even know if these are only ways, or if they have to be thought of as separate to one another, or if parents are 'parents' in a sense we understand them. Are there biological parents? Are there spiritual parents?

 

Dunno, but Mythal was a goddess of motherhood and is portrayed on her mosaics with a swollen belly. How literally this can be taken though we don't know for now, especially that a lot of elvhen culture (and way of life in fact) seems to be based on symbols and multiple layers of metaphors.

[lynroy]

I bring the popcorn who will bring the drinks and Lynroy can you tell me what happens next ?

 

*sits down and waits impatiently for the next part of the story*

 

Sorry to be off topic here.

"...a pair playing, colliding in the air, bodies formed for kissing, stroking lines of heat as molten as the sun. The dance is fluid, roiling, never ending, lovers tangled in a laughing knot that rolls on for years, a promise never to be parted, whatever ages come."

[Donk]

*Spit takes*

[roselavellan]

"...a pair playing, colliding in the air, bodies formed for kissing, stroking lines of heat as molten as the sun. The dance is fluid, roiling, never ending, lovers tangled in a laughing knot that rolls on for years, a promise never to be parted, whatever ages come."

 

I love this. So this... love in the time of Elvhenan... If the Veil is removed, can we look forward to this?

 

*ponders*

[midnight tea]

I love this. So this... love in the times of Elvhenan... If the Veil is removed, can we look forward to this?

 

*ponders*

 

Haha, one of the legit reasons to tear down the Veil Years of mind-blowing and creative sex!

[coldwetn0se]

"...a pair playing, colliding in the air, bodies formed for kissing, stroking lines of heat as molten as the sun. The dance is fluid, roiling, never ending, lovers tangled in a laughing knot that rolls on for years, a promise never to be parted, whatever ages come."

"Get a room!"

[midnight tea]

"Get a room!"

 

[German Soldier]

 

There was no "personal headcanon" - it was a small theory clearly made with no assumption that it's 100% true; merely a possibility in face of uncertainty.

 

"For me the jury is out on whether or not he's murdering people or if this is a situation where he's actually killing some healthy cells in the process of killing the cancer."

 

And you turned it into a "headcanon" 

That's how it works?

Solas fans are permitted to devise suppositions not based on evidences in game (that's exactly what headcanons means) and call the jury out for that but the others are not allowed to do the same thing otherwise they are called on their own assumptions about Solas?

[BansheeOwnage]

I finally caught up!

 

A fork is a utensil. Metaphors come from civilization. The world has meaning. Not all empires are created equal. Volcanos can spread ash and cause disruption greater than their geographic center.

Actually, the original meaning of fork was an implement (pitchfork), not a utensil

 

No, they aren't. Turning someone down or keeping a secret is nothing close to the same basic feeling as committing genocide. 

How do you know? Huh? Huh?!

 

Eh, I'm reluctant to take something like the name of a game asset and say it has any meaning. After all, as I pointed out earlier, I believe that Mythal's human appearance was a mistake. There is also a banter or somesuch in the files between Blackwall and Solas regarding elven beards, and the presence of that is also a mistake.

 

I suppose that I just don't like to read too much into various little bits in a general sense. But that's just me.

Sorry this is late, but what do you mean exactly by Mythal's human appearance? Statues? Flemeth? Weird water-well-spirit-thing?

 

 

I prefer my flawed characters to try to fix themselves... not bask in their dementia.  

Did you miss the whole redemption option in Trespasser? It's based on the idea that Solas can try to fix himself, to improve. So it seems to me like you're judging the story before it's over, because Solas' arc takes place over more than just one game.

 

It would be just like judging Cullen definitively in DA:O or DA2 rather than after DA:I. It may turn out that Solas doesn't make any improvements to himself and doesn't fix any of his flaws. But we don't know yet.

[midnight tea]

 

That's how it works?

Solas fans are permitted to devise suppositions not based on evidences in game (that's exactly what headcanons means) and call the jury out for that but the others are not allowed to do the same thing otherwise they are called on their own assumptions about Solas?

 

"Permitted to devise suppositions based on headcannons while others are not..."? That's YOUR supposition.

 

And no dude - it isn't a "headcanon", that was a hypothesis. Discussing a possibility. There's a difference between the two.

 

Besides - he was the one that was calling the jury out. You're doing the opposite - you're the one that are claiming with great amount of certainty that Solas's plan is this or NOT that. There's a difference between the two as well. If you can't see it, there's little we can discuss, because it will end with another strawman like the one above.

[Almostfaceman]

 

That's how it works?

Solas fans are permitted to devise suppositions not based on evidences in game (that's exactly what headcanons means) and call the jury out for that but the others are not allowed to do the same thing otherwise they are called on their own assumptions about Solas?

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out what exactly is your problem with my opinion. My opinion that maybe our decision later on about Solas... it may be a harder, more interesting decision than the decision we're faced with right now. 

 

All I said was, according to these these things, they may be clues of something later on. Or they may not. 

 

The fact is, we don't have all the facts. That's not head canon, that's just fact. Does that automatically mean that Solas is going to be up to something that turns out to be noble and good? Nope.

 

Does that mean you're not entitled to your own opinion? Nope.

 

Does that mean our decision later on about what Solas is up to, is maybe going to be a harder decision that it seems to be right now? Maybe. 

 

What the heck is wrong with me saying maybe? Golly geee wiiiizzzzzzz. 

 

Are you on an anti-maybe committee? Does the word maybe dredge up personal tragedy? Are you King Maybe and must kill all the pretender maybe's that are threatening your Maybe Throne? 

 

It's okay if we're in disagreement. The world will continue to spin around the sun. It will still spin on its axis. Seasons will pass. Flowers will bloom. Game of Thrones will continue with its awesome. Cool Dragon Age games will be made. Mysteries will be solved. White chocolate will continue to be tastier than regular chocolate. 

 

Go look up head canon. Canon is facts. I said certain things may be clues. Sandal's prophecy isn't head canon. Nor is Flemeth's prophecy with Hawke. At the end of Trespasser, Solas doesn't want to kill lots of people. He feels he has to kill lots of people. Restoration of the elves is definitely a motivating factor. But is it the only motivating factor? He won't tell us about everything that's involved. So, maybe it's not the only motivating factor. Solas has had to make hard decisions before that involved saving the world. That's possibly a clue. 

 

*no maybe's were harmed in the making of this post. Head canon's felt left out, but were compensated with Tyrion Lannister action figures. 

[Illegitimus]

It is an allegory since you used a biological disease to illustrate through a  replacement of an object to another a concept  

 

 

The word for that is "metaphor"  My little story about how an American president might launch a nuclear strike knowing all the time that what he was doing was a horribly bad thing, and do it anyway…that was allegory.