I'm playing on trials, so immediately, I go for barrier and guard penetration since one of my chosen trials pumps up barrier and guard on enemies. (Playing on "hard" is actually hard now.)
But what of other types of damage? Armor penetration? Critical damage? Critical chance? Sunder? Etc.
Would armor penetration and chance to sunder even work on a mage's staff since the staff doesn't physically strike the enemy?
I'm playing on trials, so immediately, I go for barrier and guard penetration since one of my chosen trials pumps up barrier and guard on enemies. (Playing on "hard" is actually hard now.)
But what of other types of damage? Armor penetration? Critical damage? Critical chance? Sunder? Etc.
Would armor penetration and chance to sunder even work on a mage's staff since the staff doesn't physically strike the enemy?
Because of Flash Point, critical chance should be a priority. Exclusive of Trials, which you've already prioritized, here's what I use for early to mid-game:Willpower > Attack% > Crit Chance > Crit Damage or Dexterity > Cunning > (pretty much everything else).
EDIT: Willpower > Attack% > Crit Chance > Cunning > Crit Damage or Dexterity > (pretty much everything else).
Not the crit is bad early game, it's just that when crit mats are scarce, I'd rather use them on rogues in the party.
Once crit mats are plentiful, I switch to:Crit Chance (until about 60%, then ...) > Crit Damage or Dexterity > Cunning > Attack% > Willpower > (pretty much everything else).
EDIT: Crit Chance (until about 60%, then ...) > Cunning (until about 60% crit chance, then ...) > Crit Damage or Dexterity > Attack% > Willpower > (pretty much everything else).
Flanking Damage is good too, but you have to be in close range to get full effect. I generally only put Flanking Damage on KE's and maneuver to flank for Spirit Blade attacks.
Armor Pen. is no good for a staff, since elemental already ignores armor.
FWIW, unless I'm running solo, I don't put Guard damage on staves, I reserve that for warriors and rogues, particularly ones that Taunt. Divide and conquer. I usually have a mix of warriors, rogues and mages, so I assign warriors to guard damage duty, rogues to sunder and flanking, mages to barrier damage.
Because of Flash Point, critical chance should be a priority. Exclusive of Trials, which you've already prioritized, here's what I use for early to mid-game:
Willpower > Attack% > Crit Chance > Crit Damage or Dexterity > Cunning > (pretty much everything else).
Not the crit is bad early game, it's just that when crit mats are scarce, I'd rather use them on rogues in the party.
Once crit mats are plentiful, I switch to:
Crit Chance (until about 60%, then ...) > Crit Damage or Dexterity > Cunning > Attack% > Willpower > (pretty much everything else).
Flanking Damage is good too, but you have to be in close range to get full effect. I generally only put Flanking Damage on KE's and maneuver to flank for Spirit Blade attacks.
Armor Pen. is no good for a staff, since elemental already ignores armor.
FWIW, unless I'm running solo, I don't put Guard damage on staves, I reserve that for warriors and rogues, particularly ones that Taunt. Divide and conquer. I usually have a mix of warriors, rogues and mages, so I assign warriors to guard damage duty, rogues to sunder and flanking, mages to barrier damage.
Thanks! I do like the way you lay things out. The difference between critical chance versus critical damage I've always been fuzzy on. I always default to critical damage because of the word "damage" whereas "chance" seems to denote the possibility that the enemy may escape unscathed from an attack. Also, deciding on magic versus willpower for mages or dexterity versus cunning for rogues or strength versus constitution always leaves me wondering.
How would you define critical chance and why is it better than critical damage?
Thanks! I do like the way you lay things out. The difference between critical chance versus critical damage I've always been fuzzy on. I always default to critical damage because of the word "damage" whereas "chance" seems to denote the possibility that the enemy may escape unscathed from an attack. Also, deciding on magic versus willpower for mages or dexterity versus cunning for rogues or strength versus constitution always leaves me wondering.
How would you define critical chance and why is it better than critical damage?
No you need both crit chance and crit dmg.
Crit chance is the chance your attacks becomes a crit. Crit dmg is the damage multiplier when you do crit. I believe there is a built in crit dmg already for everyone.
If you have 10% crit chance but say 300% crit dmg it's no good because you would very rarely crit.
If you have 100% crit chance but only 10% crit dmg it's not sensible either because you are not getting an awful lot of extra dmg.
So really you want a good combination of both. A lot of the passives would also benefit from high crit chance such as flow of battle or opportunity knocks which reduces the cooldown of all of your abilities upon crit.
As of attributes, check out this: http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)
Personally I would go for willpower > magic because you have dispel to do damage vs barrier
Con > Strength because again you have passives that greatly increase your dmg vs guard
Cun > Dex when it's not a rogue because you benefit more from crit chance + ranged resist. But if you are rogue then go for Dex because you get 0.5% attack + 1% crit dmg per point of Dex, much better trade off.
Personally I would go for willpower > magic because you have dispel to do damage vs barrier
Con > Strength because again you have passives that greatly increase your dmg vs guard
Cun > Dex when it's not a rogue because you benefit more from crit chance + ranged resist. But if you are rogue then go for Dex because you get 0.5% attack + 1% crit dmg per point of Dex, much better trade off.
Those are very good points. Up until today, I hadn't realized that ranged defense may actually help against magic attacks, even spirit magic. See here:
http://forum.bioware...-magic-defense/
That ups the priority of Cunning for a mage for me.
@Deadly Dwarf, this might help with understanding crit chance vs. crit damage. You can calculate an average damage bonus just by multiplying the numbers together. Divide percentages by 100 first, then multiple chance into damage, then multiply by 100 to get percent.
Using the examples JiaJM98 gave:
10% crit chance x 300% crit damage = 0.10 * 3.00 = 0.30 = 30% average damage bonus
100% crit chance x 10% crit damage = 1.00 * 0.10 = 0.10 = 10% average damage bonus (note, this is exaggerated for clarity, but not a real example, see below)
Now look what happens when you add 50% to crit chance in the first, and 50% to crit damage in the second:
60% crit chance x 300% crit damage = 0.60 * 3.00 = 1.80 = 180% average damage bonus
100% crit chance x 60% crit damage = 1.00 * 0.60 = 0.60 = 60% average damage bonus
By adding 50% to crit chance, you increased you average damage bonus six-fold. By adding 50% to crit damage, you increased your average damage bonus six-fold again. Isn't multiplication great?
Since those numbers are multiplied together, every point you add to one increases your average damage bonus by a factor of the other.
As a rule of thumb, 50% to 60% crit chance is a good goal to shoot for. Since gear slots and accessories are limited, you can't just boost one to 100% and expect to boost the other to 100% also. It's possible, but you need very high tier materials and schematics. So you need to balance your investment between crit chance and crit damage. Once to get over 50%, you can spend exclusively on crit damage.
Another way to look at it is that you start with a 40% critical damage bonus. Since you already have a head start on crit damage, you can work on increasing crit chance exclusively and coast on your free 40% damage bonus for a while.
No you need both crit chance and crit dmg.
Crit chance is the chance your attacks becomes a crit. Crit dmg is the damage multiplier when you do crit. I believe there is a built in crit dmg already for everyone.
If you have 10% crit chance but say 300% crit dmg it's no good because you would very rarely crit.
If you have 100% crit chance but only 10% crit dmg it's not sensible either because you are not getting an awful lot of extra dmg.
So really you want a good combination of both. A lot of the passives would also benefit from high crit chance such as flow of battle or opportunity knocks which reduces the cooldown of all of your abilities upon crit.
As of attributes, check out this: http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)
Personally I would go for willpower > magic because you have dispel to do damage vs barrier
Con > Strength because again you have passives that greatly increase your dmg vs guard
Cun > Dex when it's not a rogue because you benefit more from crit chance + ranged resist. But if you are rogue then go for Dex because you get 0.5% attack + 1% crit dmg per point of Dex, much better trade off.
Those are very good points. Up until today, I hadn't realized that ranged defense may actually help against magic attacks, even spirit magic. See here:
http://forum.bioware...-magic-defense/
That ups the priority of Cunning for a mage for me.
@Deadly Dwarf, this might help with understanding crit chance vs. crit damage. You can calculate an average damage bonus just by multiplying the numbers together. Divide percentages by 100 first, then multiple chance into damage, then multiply by 100 to get percent.
Using the examples JiaJM98 gave:
10% crit chance x 300% crit damage = 0.10 * 3.00 = 0.30 = 30% average damage bonus
100% crit chance x 10% crit damage = 1.00 * 0.10 = 0.10 = 10% average damage bonus (note, this is exaggerated for clarity, but not a real example, see below)
Now look what happens when you add 50% to crit chance in the first, and 50% to crit damage in the second:
60% crit chance x 300% crit damage = 0.60 * 3.00 = 1.80 = 180% average damage bonus
100% crit chance x 60% crit damage = 1.00 * 0.60 = 0.60 = 60% average damage bonus
By adding 50% to crit chance, you increased you average damage bonus six-fold. By adding 50% to crit damage, you increased your average damage bonus six-fold again. Isn't multiplication great?
Since those numbers are multiplied together, every point you add to one increases your average damage bonus by a factor of the other.
As a rule of thumb, 50% to 60% crit chance is a good goal to shoot for. Since gear slots and accessories are limited, you can't just boost one to 100% and expect to boost the other to 100% also. It's possible, but you need very high tier materials and schematics. So you need to balance your investment between crit chance and crit damage. Once to get over 50%, you can spend exclusively on crit damage.
Another way to look at it is that you start with a 40% critical damage bonus. Since you already have a head start on crit damage, you can work on increasing crit chance exclusively and coast on your free 40% damage bonus for a while.
Many thanks, PapaCharlie and JiaJM98! I'll definitely start balancing critical damage with more critical chance. I have never gotten into the equation side of attributes which is a pity, because I used to be very good at math. Clearly, certain attributes have greater leverage than others! They really should make one of these threads on the subject a sticky thread so that those who are interested can refine their knowledge as different people who make different discoveries on combat mechanics post their findings in one place.
Because of Flash Point, critical chance should be a priority.
^^^^^^^ This! There is a lot of information here, but this is IMHO the most important.
The main reason that I care about critical chance on mages is not to get critical damage (that is a nice side bonus), but it is to get rid of cooldown times as much as possible.
Flashpoint gives you no cooldown on your next spell after a critical hit. I don't even use cunning on my rogues (I take crit chance directly), so I'm not going to even consider it for a mage. Being able to caste abilities more often is better than using your staff.
If you use the Golden Nug and have the schematic for the staff The Wrath of Lovias, you can get crit chance on the staff up to 20% right at the start in Haven. If you are short of crafting materials for critical chance, just go Druffalo hunting. Especially with trials. Killing a pile of Druffalos will help you get your first trial reward a little sooner.
I think 40% of crit chance is a good point when you can focus on crit damage.
I made WofLovias (60%~70% crit chance) and i am not satisfied with it after play with Hakkon Wisdom which has 100% crit damage bonuses.
Once the craft materials are scarce, save before craft and test the damage output. If not satisfied too, reload and try a different combination.
Guys, i have a question too... What is a good dmg for mage basic attacks? I know spells are better, but just curiosity.
For pre-specialisation and non-rift mages, electricity is quite good, since fewer enemies have immunity to it. In a team set-up, it doesn't really matter since very little of your DPS will come from auto-attacks. Where the staff type makes a difference is if you're soloing and energy barrage is a source of damage for you (even then, it's not a huge deal). In that case, you'll likely need two different element staves. For my rift mage, I mainly use cold, with a fire back-up which I often forget to equip.
Do you mean which type, fire/cold/electrical/rune, or do you mean how high the base number should be?Guys, i have a question too... What is a good dmg for mage basic attacks? I know spells are better, but just curiosity.
Flashpoint gives you no cooldown on your next spell after a critical hit. I don't even use cunning on my rogues (I take crit chance directly), so I'm not going to even consider it for a mage. Being able to caste abilities more often is better than using your staff.
Of course, you also need the mana to pay for those abilities.
Which brings up the question of which FT mats you guys like on mages. Guard on hit would be best, I suppose. (I've reached L23 in my current run and only found 2 of the things.) As for others, lower mana cost? More damage if not being hit? One of the 10% on-hits?
It depends.
In a full party, I no longer craft guard on hit, since you can designate a warrior to spam Horn of Valor/Fortifying Blast.
Even for a solo mage, heal on hit is preferable.
For damage, Walking Bomb is one of the best damage procs, since its spirit damage and relatively high bonus. I'll also use Immolate, Hidden Blades, Chain Lightning, and for lulz, Shield Bash.
But by far, my favorite 10% procs are Veilstrike and Pull of the Abyss, particularly for a non-RM. I also put those procs on rogues and warriors. What's not to like about an archer shooting an arrow and having it flatten the target and any enemies nearby? Although I only do this if I don't have the FT for Hidden Blades. Two tiers of HB are always the priority for a rogue.
If mana is a problem, lowering mana cost is good too, but I usually only use that for early to mid-game.
It depends.
In a full party, I no longer craft guard on hit, since you can designate a warrior to spam Horn of Valor/Fortifying Blast.
Even for a solo mage, heal on hit is preferable.
For damage, Walking Bomb is one of the best damage procs, since its spirit damage and relatively high bonus. I'll also use Immolate, Hidden Blades, Chain Lightning, and for lulz, Shield Bash.
But by far, my favorite 10% procs are Veilstrike and Pull of the Abyss, particularly for a non-RM. I also put those procs on rogues and warriors. What's not to like about an archer shooting an arrow and having it flatten the target and any enemies nearby? Although I only do this if I don't have the FT for Hidden Blades. Two tiers of HB are always the priority for a rogue.
If mana is a problem, lowering mana cost is good too, but I usually only use that for early to mid-game.
What about for KE-mage? What's the best fade-touched items for that mage? You seem to know a lot about the subject. 
I FINALLY got a Fade-touched Snourfleur skin that heals 1% on hit. I was thinking about using that for armor, and then the extra 7.5% damage for every enemy nearby. My KE hits hard and fights close.
What about for KE-mage? What's the best fade-touched items for that mage? You seem to know a lot about the subject.
I FINALLY got a Fade-touched Snourfleur skin that heals 1% on hit. I was thinking about using that for armor, and then the extra 7.5% damage for every enemy nearby. My KE hits hard and fights close.
For the best FTs that are hard to get, put them on gear you are not likely to change out any time soon. If you are going to change your armor the next time you level up, don't put it on armor.
It depends on how you play the KE, close combat or ranged.
Close combat, I like to pick the 10% damage procs that work best up close.
For ranged, I prefer buffs that support the Energy Barrage -> Barrier regen + SB recharge engine. Either of the cost less mana FTs, for example. Only early to mid-game though, like I said before. Veilstrike and PotA, likewise.
Why mention SB recharge? I've been experimenting with a hybrid KE build. Set SB to the Amplified Wave upgrade, use Frost Step to close to melee range, do one mega-hit with SB, drop a mine or two, then Fade Cloak and move away. Use Energy Barrage and auto-attacks to recharge SB.
I FINALLY got a Fade-touched Snourfleur skin that heals 1% on hit. I was thinking about using that for armor, and then the extra 7.5% damage for every enemy nearby. My KE hits hard and fights close.
^^^^^^^ This! There is a lot of information here, but this is IMHO the most important.
The main reason that I care about critical chance on mages is not to get critical damage (that is a nice side bonus), but it is to get rid of cooldown times as much as possible.
Flashpoint gives you no cooldown on your next spell after a critical hit. I don't even use cunning on my rogues (I take crit chance directly), so I'm not going to even consider it for a mage. Being able to caste abilities more often is better than using your staff.
Correct me if i'm wrong, Flashpoint there's a 10s CD. Immolate spam with Clean Burn wouldn't that be much better?
Yes, Flashpoint has a cooldown. It's an on-average, in the long-run benefit. You want to find a two-ability sequence you use with Flashpoint that has shorter total cooldown time than the same sequence without Flashpoint.Correct me if i'm wrong, Flashpoint there's a 10s CD. Immolate spam with Clean Burn wouldn't that be much better?
Probably not, which is to say, you are probably correct. Same description and same tier haven't stacked in other cases, like Hidden Blades x5.Since you're on the topic of ft materials already, can I interject a quick question? Am I right in assuming the normal rules apply for the +5/+7.5% damage bonus per nearby enemy apply (ie two 7.5%'s wouldn't stack)?
Yes, Flashpoint has a cooldown. It's an on-average, in the long-run benefit. You want to find a two-ability sequence you use with Flashpoint that has shorter total cooldown time than the same sequence without Flashpoint.
Immolate/Consuming Fire + Clean Burn is indeed a great way to optimize cooldowns across the board. It's a special case, obviously, and has drawbacks, like Fire Resistant enemies and large mana drain. But sure. KE's Spirit Blade is better in combination with Clean Burn for spamming purposes, but Immolate is definitely an option to consider for non-KE mages.
In any case, OP was talking about crafting priorities.
Thanks for the reply. It kinds to make me think that Crit is not important for mages. Or maybe important but not so much compared to Warrior or Rogues. Since the only logical way to play a mage .. I'm playing as a KE.. a nerfed one. Is it me of i'm kind of regretting it already. LOL. It would be so much fun if i just play it with FF OFF. I can't literally do anything with a tank nearby and have to really position the targetting AOEs. Is so much of a pain. The only way i can do is to initially tank for a shortwhile with my KE and then only bring in my tank.
The only problem with immo spam is mana. I'm not sure about the final patch. Is Rejuvenating Barrier useful if my KE is not the caster? Does Rejuvenating Barriers stack with Winter Stillness? I found a mana regen necklace.. Andraste Sacrifice or something. I hate it because it kind of make my Inquisitor invisible even non-combat. Any gear beside that necklace? So kind of like your opinion.. does Mage benefits from Critical? Of course being the exception of Rift Mage with Firestorm.. Wondering if i should stack Crit Chance/Crit Dmg on my KE gear or should i go for stats like Magic and Attack?
And by the way, sorry for being off-topic.
Thanks for the reply. It kinds to make me think that Crit is not important for mages. Or maybe important but not so much compared to Warrior or Rogues. Since the only logical way to play a mage .. I'm playing as a KE.. a nerfed one. Is it me of i'm kind of regretting it already. LOL. It would be so much fun if i just play it with FF OFF. I can't literally do anything with a tank nearby and have to really position the targetting AOEs. Is so much of a pain. The only way i can do is to initially tank for a shortwhile with my KE and then only bring in my tank.
The only problem with immo spam is mana. I'm not sure about the final patch. Is Rejuvenating Barrier useful if my KE is not the caster? Does Rejuvenating Barriers stack with Winter Stillness? I found a mana regen necklace.. Andraste Sacrifice or something. I hate it because it kind of make my Inquisitor invisible even non-combat. Any gear beside that necklace? So kind of like your opinion.. does Mage benefits from Critical? Of course being the exception of Rift Mage with Firestorm.. Wondering if i should stack Crit Chance/Crit Dmg on my KE gear or should i go for stats like Magic and Attack?
And by the way, sorry for being off-topic.
thanks gya.. i always have the idea that KE isn't possible as a main tank. been bringing cass along with me all along since beginning as she's my LI. wondering how can i tank effectively with KE now if i'm not bringing in cass. i always have varric and another mage along. so the replacement obviously going to be sera.. i was planning her for my 2nd PT though. guess to tank with KE effectively.. i need gear that can generate threat plus guard. all these while i have been feeling the pain of a tank beside my KE as i played with FF. i'll try to ditch cass out and replace with Sera this time.
any suggestion on the item/gear/accessories? i think for crafting i may need to go guard generation. something with mana regen will be great since i can immo spam and hopefully put up some fire mines. but for tanking will it better to forego firemine and go ice instead? for that 50% damage reduction on ice armor. thanks for any insights.
thanks gya.. i always have the idea that KE isn't possible as a main tank. been bringing cass along with me all along since beginning as she's my LI. wondering how can i tank effectively with KE now if i'm not bringing in cass. i always have varric and another mage along. so the replacement obviously going to be sera.. i was planning her for my 2nd PT though. guess to tank with KE effectively.. i need gear that can generate threat plus guard. all these while i have been feeling the pain of a tank beside my KE as i played with FF. i'll try to ditch cass out and replace with Sera this time.
any suggestion on the item/gear/accessories? i think for crafting i may need to go guard generation. something with mana regen will be great since i can immo spam and hopefully put up some fire mines. but for tanking will it better to forego firemine and go ice instead? for that 50% damage reduction on ice armor. thanks for any insights.
Hm, you could try something like this: Knight Enchanter Build
Ideally, it would be nice to take rejuvenating barrier, but unfortunately you have to get peaceful aura first, which is counter-intuitive if you want to hold aggro.
Spirit blade is only there to lower cooldowns via clean burn. And for stripping guard, I guess. You can quickly charge it very easily with energy barrage.
Fade step is great as a way of closing distance and generating a bit of barrier at the start of a fight in case your other mage misses you with barrier.
If you're set on keeping immolate, you could switch it for fire wall, but I think there's something to be said for dropping a static cage, panicking the enemies inside it, and watching them try to leave only to get zapped back onto your fire mines 
For gear, the Andraste's sacrifice has a useful chance to taunt enemies, as well as improving mana regen and decreasing cooldowns. Your other main method of generating threat is to charge in and spike damage to grab as much aggro as possible. The ring of doubt is great for auto-crits, but going into stealth will drop threat, so you could just stack critical damage instead.
A pact belt of your choice is also a good idea. Perhaps storm pact with an electric staff?
For masterworks, heal on hit is always great with energy barrage. And walking bomb, the damage is beautiful if it procs from a fire mine, winter's ruin or fade cloak.
You won't need guard on hit once you have fade shield, you'll basically always have barrier, even with barrier breaking promoted enemies, you'll constantly be pouring out damage so your barrier will constantly be up. The only exceptions are in JoH and Trespasser, which is where fade cloak is again handy. Plus, the 1000% spirit damage will immediately fill your barrier again. Also, you can mash spirit blade a few times as well, when it's fully charged it will generate a nice chunk of barrier.
You're right that a KE wont tank as effectively as a warrior since you lack proper taunts, but you will be able to hold aggro pretty well by putting out enough damage.
thanks gya.. that peaceful aura is really counter-intuitive. 50% threat reduction is really alot to me. plus not mentioning having dispel but cannot utilize it in the 8 slots. kinda really hate bioware for this.. on rejuvenating barrier, cant we have it on 2nd mage and still have the benefits applicable for KE? or the benefits must be that from the caster? i also think static cage cost alot of mana. if the KE is the caster, plus he definitely needs energy barrage to maximize the damage output on number of hits for that short 8 secs duration. Spirit Blade animation is just too slow and now the nerfed version 150% damage vs the old 400% really useless. I also think Bioware is kinda stupid to nerf an SP game.
as for fade cloak.. i don't know why i dont have good impression on it. tell me what i'm doing wrong. i play the game mostly on tactical (not real-time). it's really a pain in the arse that for that short 2 secs i have to manually ensure KE will emerge and rematerialize inside the enemy's body for that 1000% damage. i often wasted that 1000% damage. also why statis lock instead of charged disruption? i see charged disruption much better at least it will recharge the blade faster and i think when with the disruption field and everyone attacking the mob inside the field, KE can just spam SB for free for that short few secs.
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