I been struggling to understand how Mages were able to go to war against guys that simply nullify their magic.
In a 1v1 how exactly would mage fight against a templar because it seems to me that the Templar would easily win every single time.
realised the typo in the title XD
"So How exactly do Mages fight Templars?"
Templars can no more perfectly nullify magic every time than mages can perfectly burn their foes alive every time.
Templars hunters pursue a fugitive mage in group to better counter their magic.
Templars can no more perfectly nullify magic every time than mages can perfectly burn their foes alive every time.
Pretty sure most combat mages could burn regular foes alive without trouble;
So going by your analogy, most Templars would be able to nulify magic just fine - which again begs the question, how do mages beat a Templar.
Or are we assuming that most templars only manage to weaken magic and not nullify it comepletely,
so that mages can still cast spells etc just not as powerful?
The way it works in Asunder is that the Templar seems to have to be close enough to make contact in some way with the mage or at least the barrier which surrounds them, either hand or sword. They then channel their power through this to nullify the magic. This is why Templars need to close on the mage very quickly. The Templar can also raise their own protective barrier but of course mages have ways on countering this too. So it is all about who can act the quickest and take the initiative on the battlefield.
In gameplay mechanics it is rather different as the Templar seems to be able to affect the mage from a distance but there are certain area of affect spells, like blizzard or firestorm, that the Templar is not going to be able to counter unless they actually succeed in disrupting the mage's concentration.
On the whole I'd say that a fight between an evenly matched mage and Templar, in terms of experience and expertise, would be a pretty close run thing. However, I would point out that there is probably a reason why Templars seem to hunt the more dangerous apostates in groups rather than singly. The battle between the rogue mage and Evangeline at the beginning of Asunder would seem to suggest that Templars find blood magic more difficult to deal with, probably because it draws its power from a different source to regular magic.
@Pavan: Short answer? There was no way for them (mages) to win. Had it run it's course without Corypheus interfering - it should have gone down exactly like Spartacus' rebellion... a bloody failure.
So... Fiona called Tevinter and sold her people to slavery.
It was really the only logical outcome once they had validated that Templars hysteria.
@Pavan: Short answer? There was no way for them (mages) to win. Had it run it's course without Corypheus interfering - it should have gone down exactly like Spartacus' rebellion... a bloody failure.
So... Fiona called Tevinter and sold her people to slavery.
It was really the only logical outcome once they had validated that Templars hysteria.
Corypheus is truly the unsung hero of Thedas.
The way it works in Asunder is that the Templar seems to have to be close enough to make contact in some way with the mage or at least the barrier which surrounds them, either hand or sword. They then channel their power through this to nullify the magic. This is why Templars need to close on the mage very quickly. The Templar can also raise their own protective barrier but of course mages have ways on countering this too. So it is all about who can act the quickest and take the initiative on the battlefield.
In gameplay mechanics it is rather different as the Templar seems to be able to affect the mage from a distance but there are certain area of affect spells, like blizzard or firestorm, that the Templar is not going to be able to counter unless they actually succeed in disrupting the mage's concentration.
On the whole I'd say that a fight between an evenly matched mage and Templar, in terms of experience and expertise, would be a pretty close run thing. However, I would point out that there is probably a reason why Templars seem to hunt the more dangerous apostates in groups rather than singly. The battle between the rogue mage and Evangeline at the beginning of Asunder would seem to suggest that Templars find blood magic more difficult to deal with, probably because it draws its power from a different source to regular magic.
I head canon it is a battle of wills in a way - the Mage using his will to bring magic through and the Templar using his to reinforce reality. Quicker reflexes/stronger resolve wins.
Thanks for the answers, I was just curious because I reading up on Templars in the Wiki - and I couldn't figure out how mages would defend against them.
But the batle of Wills idea makes sense, and if most of the Templer require to be up close and personal to nulify magic, then it makes a little more sense story wise as to how the Mages were able to go to war.
Even though gameplay mechanic wise Templars have AOE - are we just assuming these AOE guys are the major badasses among the templars, like commanders etc.
@Xilizhra: It's true - he was robbed of a great storyline all for the sake of a bald rat.
@Pavan: Short answer? There was no way for them (mages) to win. Had it run it's course without Corypheus interfering - it should have gone down exactly like Spartacus' rebellion... a bloody failure.
So... Fiona called Tevinter and sold her people to slavery.
It was really the only logical outcome once they had validated that Templars hysteria.
Ahhh that reminds of the Spartacus TV show - the CGI and green screens in that show were god awful
But somehow, the series was damn good, I ended up loving it - even though I knew how it would end thanks to history.
@Xilizhra: It's true - he was robbed of a great storyline all for the sake of a bald rat.
Well, the elven stuff could have had more time to breathe in DA2 if some people hadn't constantly whined about it to the extent of getting Exalted March canceled.
Corypheus is truly the unsung hero of Thedas.
Ill be honest from what I have read on the Wiki etc - Tevinter seem like they have the right idea, they just need to be less pompous about bloodlines etc.
Vints should rule Thedas with their Imperial Templars
Also I think blood magic is so effective against Templars because it enables a Mage to use mind control - thus negating a weak-willed Templar's reality reinforcing attacks. Fenris is probably right that nearly all mages when pushed will turn to blood magic for this very reason.
I will be honest If the inquistor could spec as a blood mage, I would.
Another quote from Asunder. Standing on the ruined battlements of Andoral's Reach Rhys reflects that even though it is a ruin with hundred of mages to man the battlements they "could hold off an army 10 times their size if not more." Which makes you wonder why they trudged the length of Thedas with the entire mage army to end up in Ferelden, when they could just have sent representatives to the Conclave. Admittedly Andoral's Reach was always going to be difficult to provision but really you don't deliberately go nearer to your enemies if you don't have to. As Rhys acknowledges, the civil war was going to make things difficult for the Templars and of course we later discover that the main motivator of the Templars, Seeker Lambert, was killed by Cole before the Templar army even got going.
Also if Fiona had wanted to surrender to Tevinter, they were close enough there but of course originally their leadership was wise enough to realise that heading for Tevinter was no better than throwing themselves on the mercy of the Divine.
Still the above quote shows that mages are far less vulnerable if they can defend from a distance and provided they are well enough provisioned, they can hold out against superior forces almost indefinitely. This probably accounts for why, despite numerous Exalted Marches and the attacks of both Qunari and darkspawn, Minrathous has never fallen.
Quick answer? They don't.
They were losing the war horribly, the only reason they managed to survive in all actuality was because Fereldan took them in and despite the Templars themselves being a professional army, they didn't have the numbers or backing to invade a sovereign nation. So things devolved into a stalemate, but in truth? The state of Thedas will tell you all you need to know about this.
They were decimated across its bounds, in a constant stream of retreats and ambushes from Rivain to Orlais itself, by the end of the engagement pre Conclave? The Mage Rebellion, which had effectively been more or less begun by all circles, was effectively restricted to two areas of operation, Fereldan's Redcliffe and Fereldan's Northern Forests near Amaranthine, a rebellion of thousands, now a rebellion of hundreds.
I just wish we got to see the slaughter personally, I mean seriously, the Mages were asking for this war for a decade and they finally got it.
Minrathous has never fallen.
Andraste came the closest and ironically she was the first.
@Pavan: Short answer? There was no way for them (mages) to win. Had it run it's course without Corypheus interfering - it should have gone down exactly like Spartacus' rebellion... a bloody failure.
From what it looks like, templars have to get close enough to nullify magic, and seeing as how most magic is pretty long ranged...
And if by some chance a templar gets close enough, you're screwed, unless you have a blood magic boost up your sleeve, and since templars have no idea how to nullify that, it'd be a perfect weapon.
@Pavan: Short answer? There was no way for them (mages) to win. Had it run it's course without Corypheus interfering - it should have gone down exactly like Spartacus' rebellion... a bloody failure.
So... Fiona called Tevinter and sold her people to slavery.
It was really the only logical outcome once they had validated that Templars hysteria.
Actually there should've been no way for the templars to win. They lost the political and economic support of the chantry. And their lyrium supplies should've run out soon since it came from the chantry, and seeing as how most of them are dependent (addicted) on that shite in order to be combat-effective.....
Not to mention the food supplies needed to maintain an army. But since when has Bioware cared about a thing called logistics?
Indentured. Servitude. There is a difference.
Validated? Thats not really logical. Templars kick around mages too much and too long. Mages had enough and rebel. Templars point to that rebellion as validation that they were right to kick around mages?
But I digress.
Actually there should've been no way for the templars to win.
They had storehouses, garrisons and nobles who would likely support them all across the South, they were put into a immediately superior stance then the Mages at the onset of war. Even if you ignore the whole them being a professional army thing off the back as well.
They lost the political and economic support of the chantry.
Because a bunch of priests are going to stop the armored knights from taking the supplies from the storehouses...of which they are charged with guarding to begin with.
And their lyrium supplies should've run out soon since it came from the chantry
See Lyrium storehouses, of which the Chantry has several per country presumably, given that you have several chapters of the Order per country usually.
Not to mention the food supplies needed to maintain an army.
See looting of foodstuffs from the local populace in support of a army a common enough tactic, and or supplies they can purchase and or were gifted to them by supporters.
Actually there should've been no way for the templars to win.
See how this falls apart after applying a bit of thought?
and since templars have no idea how to nullify that, it'd be a perfect weapon.
See Litany of Adralla, a common Templar mantra that apparently despite its lengthy nature can be recited mid battle speedily enough if the Lord Seeker is anything to go by. Its handy effects? Well besides breaking mental domination, it also causes any active blood magic casting to be nullified.
The Templars have a counter to everything a Mage can do.
@Master Warder Z: Honestly, they don't even NEED counters.
They need trebuchets that fire diseased cows... and patience while the mages run out of whatever food they dragged from their towers and turn into demons in desperation and eat each other alive.
Also... were I the templars... I'd shower them with the occasional trebuchet round of burning magical tomes just for the lulz - because the morons left almost ALL their magical knowledge in the Circles when they fled.
The rebellion "should" have set magical knowledge in southern Thedas back centuries.
@Master Warder Z: Honestly, they don't even NEED counters.
They need trebuchets that fire diseased cows... and patience while the mages run out of whatever food they dragged from their towers and turn into demons in desperation and eat each other alive.
Also... were I the templars... I'd shower them with the occasional trebuchet round of burning magical tomes just for the lulz - because the morons left almost ALL their magical knowledge in the Circles when they fled.
The rebellion "should" have set magical knowledge in southern Thedas back centuries.
The templars were presumably uninterested in wrecking the Circles for the lulz, so only the occasional bandit made off with any books, which is taken care of by the Inquisitor.
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