38 réponses à ce sujet

[Matthias King]

It occurs to me that BW will have to rethink weapon ammo yet again.

 

Presumably, thermal clips were a dime a dozen from the time Shepard woke up onward. In the Milky Way that is.

 

But in Andromeda, it stands to reason that the thermal clip caches that are brought with the Ark will be all there is. Once those are gone, there won't be any more. And surely the races of Andromeda wouldn't also just happen to ultra-conveniently use the exact same weapons technology. (though with BW it wouldn't surprise me that much, considering the thermal clips littering Jacob's loyalty mission in ME2)

 

So whatever way they decide to handle that from a story perspective will probably mean yet another change in approach to weapons. So what are the options and which is BW most likely to go with? (the easiest, least effort option would be my guess)

 

Return to conventional ammo, pre-heat sink/thermal clip weapons?

 

Adapt the Andromeda technology to the Ark society's existing weapons?

 

Drop in some pathetically preposterous, hand-wavey, throwaway piece of dialog and then move on without a backward look? (<-- my guess)

 

 

[Draining Dragon]

this pistol doesn't have a thermal clip

[Taki17]

They should adapt the hybrid ammo system - thermal clips discharge heat over time ("ammo regeneration"), but they also can be ejected so that the weapon can fire continously.

 

I'd imagine there will be some bases and settlements and they most definitely have the equipment to manufacture weapons and thermal clips. When we're out exploring, we could salvage thermal clips from dead Milky Way explorers / abandoned camps / hidden supply caches that were left behind; or, if we are the first to set foot there, there could be some sort of option to return to the dropship to resupply. The abuse of the resupply system could be countered by supplies costing money and you need to backtrack to the ship, or you can order a field resupply to your postion by a care package dropped from a shuttle, but this costs more money and/or resources, if there will be minerals, metal etc. to collect in the game.

[Killroy]

They just need to implement a system that's a hybrid of the infinite ammo/overheat system and the ammo system. Instead of enemies ejecting thermal clips upon death and environments being littered with them, guns would just have 2 internal, permanent thermal clips that rotate out to allow for "reloading" and infinite ammo. A little mechanism would pop up, then the overheated thermal clip would rotate out and the cool one would rotate in, the mechanism goes back in, and you resume firing. 

[Draining Dragon]

They just need to implement a system that's a hybrid of the infinite ammo/overheat system and the ammo system. Instead of enemies ejecting thermal clips upon death and environments being littered with them, guns would just have 2 internal, permanent thermal clips that rotate out to allow for "reloading" and infinite ammo. A little mechanism would pop up, then the overheated thermal clip would rotate out and the cool one would rotate in, the mechanism goes back in, and you resume firing.

...That's actually an amazing idea. Bioware should implement this.

[ArcadiaGrey]

They just need to implement a system that's a hybrid of the infinite ammo/overheat system and the ammo system. Instead of enemies ejecting thermal clips upon death and environments being littered with them, guns would just have 2 internal, permanent thermal clips that rotate out to allow for "reloading" and infinite ammo. A little mechanism would pop up, then the overheated thermal clip would rotate out and the cool one would rotate in, the mechanism goes back in, and you resume firing. 

 

Genius.

BioWare, go do this..

[Matthias King]

The main point I was trying to bring up is that once they leave the MW, there will be a finite number of thermal clips in existence, and it's not like they can go back for more.

 

Granted, they could produce more, but unless they do a lot of hand-waving (and let's face it, it's BW so of course they will) it seems like it would take a long time before any kind of viable manufacturing pipeline was in place.

 

So any system involving thermal clips in any capacity would still be faced with the fact that they are a finite resource that I have to guess would actually deplete pretty quickly.

 

That's the problem I was pointing out.

[Killroy]

...That's actually an amazing idea. Bioware should implement this.

Genius.
BioWare, go do this..

 
I think we can all agree that BioWare needs to hire me.

[ArcadiaGrey]

 
I think we can all agree that BioWare needs to hire me.

 

Definitely, if only to up their snark quota.  

[Han Shot First]

They just need to implement a system that's a hybrid of the infinite ammo/overheat system and the ammo system. Instead of enemies ejecting thermal clips upon death and environments being littered with them, guns would just have 2 internal, permanent thermal clips that rotate out to allow for "reloading" and infinite ammo. A little mechanism would pop up, then the overheated thermal clip would rotate out and the cool one would rotate in, the mechanism goes back in, and you resume firing. 

 

The cool thing about that idea is that it also sort of mirrors the real world. Real world machine guns also have a problem with overheating, and prolonged use can actually melt the rifling in the barrel. To deal with that problem machine guns teams also carry spare a barrel that can be quickly swapped in before that happens.

 

You can see it in this old instructional vid. The equipment has changed since, but they still function the same way.

[Killroy]

 

The cool thing about that idea is that it also sort of mirrors the real world. Real world machine guns also have a problem with overheating, and prolonged use can actually melt the rifling in the barrel. To deal with that problem machine guns teams also carry spare a barrel that can be quickly swapped in before that happens.

 

You can see it in this old instructional vid. The equipment has changed since, but they still function the same way.

 

Look at that. I'm even smarter than I thought I was.

[Vit246]

Didn't ME2 almost have a hybrid system but cut it out because reasons?

 

But yes, hybrid system. The gun has an internal heat sink AND a slot for thermal clips. If you run out of clips, the gun reverts to the cooldown system until you get a clip. Everybody's happy. Everybody learns to practice trigger discipline and not spray and pray. Nobody has to deal with the idea that the somebody in the mass effect universe thought it was a good idea for guns to be unable to fire without a thermal clip.

[DaemionMoadrin]

We have discussed this at least three times already.

[themikefest]

The cool thing about that idea is that it also sort of mirrors the real world. Real world machine guns also have a problem with overheating, and prolonged use can actually melt the rifling in the barrel. To deal with that problem machine guns teams also carry spare a barrel that can be quickly swapped in before that happens.

Yep. Happened to me when using an M60. We went out to the field to get rid of 50 000 rounds of ammo. I had a belt with 500 rounds on it. Fired them without releasing the trigger and watched the barrel overheat causing the weapon to jam. Unjammed the weapon, put on an oven glove to remove the barrel and replace it with a new barrel. So much fun that day.

[Lady Luminous]

They just need to implement a system that's a hybrid of the infinite ammo/overheat system and the ammo system. Instead of enemies ejecting thermal clips upon death and environments being littered with them, guns would just have 2 internal, permanent thermal clips that rotate out to allow for "reloading" and infinite ammo. A little mechanism would pop up, then the overheated thermal clip would rotate out and the cool one would rotate in, the mechanism goes back in, and you resume firing.

I would so absolutely love this. You, my dear, are incredibly brilliant!

[Han Shot First]

Yep. Happened to me when using an M60. We went out to the field to get rid of 50 000 rounds of ammo. I had a belt with 500 rounds on it. Fired them without releasing the trigger and watched the barrel overheat causing the weapon to jam. Unjammed the weapon, put on an oven glove to remove the barrel and replace it with a new barrel. So much fun that day.

 

[themikefest]

enjoyed firing that weapon.

[7twozero]

Didn't ME2 almost have a hybrid system but cut it out because reasons?

Yeah because it was "too complicated for players" or something, I think you can enable it still with coalesced magic.

[Satirist]

The main point I was trying to bring up is that once they leave the MW, there will be a finite number of thermal clips in existence, and it's not like they can go back for more.

 

Granted, they could produce more, but unless they do a lot of hand-waving (and let's face it, it's BW so of course they will) it seems like it would take a long time before any kind of viable manufacturing pipeline was in place.

 

So any system involving thermal clips in any capacity would still be faced with the fact that they are a finite resource that I have to guess would actually deplete pretty quickly.

 

That's the problem I was pointing out.

 

How complicated of a mechanism do you expect thermal clips to be? its a simple heat pipe, not rocket science. and besides, even rocket science is fairly common in the ME universe.

 

And out of general curiosity: how do you think this colonization works? living of limited spare parts that were brought along from milky way until all technology is used up and the races are back to the stone age? I mean the same question you ask, could be asked in regards to vehicles. what will they do once the last mako breaks down? switch to horses?

 

setting up production facilities (if not already on board of the arc) would literally be the very first thing i would do when colonizing an alien planet.

[Silvos]

setting up production facilities (if not already on board of the arc) would literally be the very first thing i would do when colonizing an alien planet.

 

Not building homes? Or securing water sources?

[Cyonan]

but why wouldn't they just bring the equipment needed to manufacture new thermal clips?

 

They're just ejectable heatsinks. They're not super complicated to make.

[KamuiStorm]

Kinetic or solar powered based weaponry is the way to go, with kinetic energy weaponry you'd have infinite or a certain amount ammo so long as you remained mobile or for how long you were mobile. Combine kinetic energy weaponry with a kinetic reserve storage and there you go you'd have a finite but sufficient amount of ammo at your disposal while not moving. Solar powered would most likely perform the same way as kinetic based but with more drawbacks as it'd be solely dependent on access to a Sun. The reserve storage could work for both but solar powered would provide more powerful projectiles(because obviously our solar powered guns would be superman).

I'd go with kinetic simply for it's adaptability and simple need for constant movement, perhaps a flex ammo system? Weaponry that can be switched on the fly depending on terrain/access betwixt kinetic and solar. For firefights within buildings and enclosed spaces such as ships and alleyways you could switch to kinetic for a constant supply of ammo at the cost of lesser Firepower(which could be negated with supporting weaponry modifications). In the open with access to solar energy you'd have less ammo(due to the time needed to absorb solar energy, which could be accelerated with supporting weaponry modifications as well) but projectiles would pack more of a punch.

We irl have weaponry that can switch on the fly between single/burst/auto fire rates so with ME tech I think it'd be an easy accomplishment to harness kinetic/solar energy weaponry.

Plus this could also apply to omniblades and more or less all tech at our disposal.

[Gileadan]

If we have to use thermal clips again, I want the gameplay to reflect that instead of making it work like conventional ammo.

 

In the previous ME games, picking up a thermal clip increased my weapons' ammo count. Why? If I carry a pistol and an assault rifle, this mechanic somehow forced me to use a part of my thermal clips for my pistol (by increasing its ammo count) despite the fact that technically I should be able to use every single clip with my rifle instead. That mechanic made it feel more like ammo instead of a standardized resource for all guns.

 

If the sole problem were overheating like it was in ME1, that could be easily avoided without needing any thermal clips. The Rheinmetall RMG 7.62, for example, is a three-barreled machine gun that does not operate like a gatling - it simply switches to the next barrel once the current one is overheating, leaving always 2 barrels on cooldown. Combined with ME's kind of ammo supply, such a gun could fire for hours on end (I suppose the ammo block eventually runs out...)

 

I still think ME's guns are way too overengineered, especially for a frontier type situation that we are likely going to get with Andromeda. There should be other weapon technologies that are more suitable for the situation, something cheap and easy to produce and to maintain, like binary propellant rifles - guns that fire a solid slug of some type by combining and igniting two gases in the gun's firing chamber. Then again, there's always space magic...

[iM3GTR]

Why don't they use thermal clips, carry lots and take them with you instead of throwing them on the floor? Then they can be vented in the Mako, or the base, ship etc and used again?

[Xerxes52]

They just need to implement a system that's a hybrid of the infinite ammo/overheat system and the ammo system. Instead of enemies ejecting thermal clips upon death and environments being littered with them, guns would just have 2 internal, permanent thermal clips that rotate out to allow for "reloading" and infinite ammo. A little mechanism would pop up, then the overheated thermal clip would rotate out and the cool one would rotate in, the mechanism goes back in, and you resume firing. 

 

One of the best ideas I've heard so far.