238 réponses à ce sujet

[pdusen]

Do you have numbers for these sales? It didn't even hit the NPD charts. I could make some room for digital sales not being counted, but that's still pretty lame. Especially for the budget a game like DAI requires. Witcher 3 made the charts 2 months in a row and it cost 80 million. I'm pretty sure DAI cost more and made less.

 

So? Tons of games don't make NPD charts. Charts don't matter. What matters is the game was successful, which we know is true because EA said so to its investors. They can lie to us, but not to the investors.

[straykat]

So? Tons of games don't make NPD charts. Charts don't matter. What matters is the game was successful, which we know is true because EA said so to its investors. They can lie to us, but not to the investors.

 

Since when did sales not matter. That's what NPD tracks. Do you not know that?

 

Besides that, EA treats their games in clusters or divisions. They're funny that way. So they wrap it all up in one department, when discussing it with investors. As long as that does OK, it's fine. If sales slump on one sports game, it doesn't matter. Because FIFA and Madden are mega hits and help keep faith in the Sports division. The fate of individual games are handled more internally.

[Panda]

oh for frak sake.

 

Bioware hasn't proven that at all. You are so fraking enamoured with your OWN opinion that you can't see that you don't hold a majority opinion. Most people LIKE DA:I how do we know? Sales and accolades, record sales and several gamers' choice awards show that GAMERS like the bloody game. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean most people don't like it. Just because you hold an opinion doesn't magically make it correct, accurate or even representative of anything but your subjective views.

 

I personally enjoyed the open world aspect of DA:I and lots of people do. I know that you have been told this by lots of posters on the forums because you keep spouting this BS narrative that we Bioware fans don't like DA:I and you keep being told by posters that they don't share your opinion. So stop trying to present your subjective opinions are representative of Bioware fans, they aren't.

 

Bioware is listening to their fans, they simply are not listening to you. I have complained about their small zones since Kotor. I complained about their terrible combat system in Origins or rather the ability to use the tactics system to set things up start a fight, leave to make coffee return to pick up the loot. Any game that can play itself is poorly designed. I complained about DA2 terrible combat system, and repetitive zones and none tactical combat. What did I get for DA:I? I got a tactics system that is LIMITED thank god and a combat system that is enjoyable in a zones that finally feel like large areas not tiny hallways outside. They also haven't listen to me since I said that Me2-3, DA2 and DA:I should bring back the ability to initiate a conversation with your companion while on the road not just at designated spots at your base/ship. Bioware listens to their fans they just don't say yes all the time to every opinion. And why should they? Gamers don't one set of opinions they often like mutually exclusive things so it isn't possible to please us as some of use will ALWAYS be left out in the cold. For years that was me with these crappy little zones now i am getting larger open zones, now it is you stop trying to claim you speak for us all. You don't.

 

Do I think Bioware is the best at open world? No it was their first attempt and I expect them to get better just like I Bethesda with a voiced protagonist. Bethesda did a fair job for their first attempt at adding voice to their protagonist in FO4 just because it wasn't the best on their first attempt doesn't mean they failed only that they have to improve.

 

Hey some of the Bioware fans who don't like open world games will leave WHO THE FRAK CARES? I use to be a huge blizzard fan and played their games and now I don't. So fraking what. I don't think Blizzard is a bad company or that they don't listen to their fans i just believe they make games i don't like any more. They have new fans to replace me so what? Bioware will lose fans every new game. i know people who won't play bioware games because they no longer make BG style games. It is the nature of business. When a company never changes for fear of losing their fans it withers and dies. Only by trying new things to attract new customers does a company survive, the reason is that not every old fan will hate the new direction. You do, I don't so fraking what. Do what i did with blizzard move on. If bioware is no longer making games you like move on, but stop trying to cage this as bioware is not listening to their fans or that all their old fans are going to leave. We aren't.

 

Nope. The game suffers from open world which is fact and not only said by myself. Fetch quests and lack of cinematic dialogues are what Bioware sacrificed to achieve their empty world. I'm not just repeating what I think, these are things people have criticized about DAI over and over again. My favorite Dragon Age game is DA2, but I wouldn't still claim I love how repetitive the dungeons are. Game has good points, but did it do open world well? No they didn't and I'd like them to learn from that cause they are attempting that second time- but all I what I have been hearing from marketing is that they haven't listened and haven't learned. They are sacrificing "Biowareness" of the game to make big game in size and that's not clever no matter how they try to market it as such.

[Sanunes]

Nope. The game suffers from open world which is fact and not only said by myself. Fetch quests and lack of cinematic dialogues are what Bioware sacrificed to achieve their empty world. I'm not just repeating what I think, these are things people have criticized about DAI over and over again. My favorite Dragon Age game is DA2, but I wouldn't still claim I love how repetitive the dungeons are. Game has good points, but did it do open world well? No they didn't and I'd like them to learn from that cause they are attempting that second time- but all I what I have been hearing from marketing is that they haven't listened and haven't learned. They are sacrificing "Biowareness" of the game to make big game in size and that's not clever no matter how they try to market it as such.

 

I don't think it was the open world itself that caused the problem, I think it was the design decision to include so much padding that the game could be played in 30 to 100 hours.  I played the game a second time after it was said by someone from BioWare they didn't expect people to stay so focused on one zone before moving on, that I changed my play habits and found the game to be much more enjoyable without looking for crafting or collectible items.

[pdusen]

Since when did sales not matter. That's what NPD tracks. Do you not know that?

 

NPD tracks some sales. EA tracks all of them. EA is satisfied with the sales. Conversation over.

[In Exile]

Since when did sales not matter. That's what NPD tracks. Do you not know that?

 

Besides that, EA treats their games in clusters or divisions. They're funny that way. So they wrap it all up in one department, when discussing it with investors. As long as that does OK, it's fine. If sales slump on one sports game, it doesn't matter. Because FIFA and Madden are mega hits and help keep faith in the Sports division. The fate of individual games are handled more internally.

Expectations matter. The insane reaction of Sony to (I think) Tomb Raider is illustrative. The game had phenomenal numbers (and a strong reception) but was a flop because of expectations on production. Or Kingdoms of Alawhatever. Overall strong sales, but a total flop for the company because of their completely insane projections and expectations. 

 

On the other hand, Kickstarter games. By comparison to AAA titles, awful sales. But success relative to budget and expectations. 

 

With DA, EA has a bit of a PR issue. Different from their post DA2 issue. At this point, the game has won accolades. Deserved or not, the brand is far closer to rehabilitation than it was post-DA2. Whether or not the game flubbed on sales, there's enough there to greenlight at least one more product before killing it off. 

[AlanC9]

The problem would be if EA had crazy internal projections for DAI too. But there's no evidence of that, and this isn't really an EA thing -- DA2 may have underperformed, but that was an experiment in lower budgeting for a nominally AAA franchise.

Hey, what's the point of this DAI discussion? If we're seriously discussing whether or not DAI underperformed because of bad exploration, then it can't have any relevance to MEA. EA can't simultaneously consider a design feature a failure and want to repeat using that feature, can they? Particularly an expensive feature.

What am I supposed to be scared of? That DAI failed, or that DAI succeeded?

[Sanunes]

The problem would be if EA had crazy internal projections for DAI too. But there's no evidence of that, and this isn't really an EA thing -- DA2 may have underperformed, but that was an experiment in lower budgeting for a nominally AAA franchise.

Hey, what's the point of this DAI discussion? If we're seriously discussing whether or not DAI underperformed, then it can't have any relevance to MEA. EA can't simultaneously consider a design feature a failure and want to repeat using that feature, can they?

 

The interesting thing is at least at launch Dragon Age: Inquisition did much better then EA expected with their earnings call statement of.

 

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition. In particular, Dragon Age: Inquisition had by far the most successful launch in BioWare’s history, exceeding our expectations. In addition, game sales for last-generation consoles were also much stronger than we had anticipated. 

 

Now the game might not have done as well over the long term, but at least near launch it exceeded their expectations and with all the GOTY awards it would have generated some interest. What we haven't seen and what I would have been interested in is the metrics that BioWare gets like with Mass Effect it would have been interesting to see what people have done in the game and I think that would have been more telling then copies sold.

Modifié par Sanunes, 02 avril 2016 - 03:22 .

[10K]

One of my top fears: Diversity for the sake of diversity; which ruin story lines and creates shallow characters.

Micah Curtis can explain this real well in his video. I agree with a lot of his points, which is why I would like EAware to stop with this diversity quota already. Don't get me wrong, diversity is a beautiful thing. But when you're just adding characters to be more "inclusive" and to please everyone, things become shallow quickly. Just saying.

[AlanC9]

What is it with these ten minute videos to make points that could fit into three paragraphs of text? The inefficiency of it is getting to me.

[Arcian]

What is it with these ten minute videos to make points that could fit into three paragraphs of text? The inefficiency of it is getting to me.

Adsense.

[10K]

What is it with these ten minute videos to make points that could fit into three paragraphs of text? The inefficiency of it is getting to me.

Don't watch it and move along, problem solved. Have a nice day

[SlottsMachine]

 By comparison to AAA titles, awful sales. But success relative to budget and expectations. 

 

 

I read this in the voice of Mordin. Haha. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Since when did sales not matter. That's what NPD tracks. Do you not know that?

 

Besides that, EA treats their games in clusters or divisions. They're funny that way. So they wrap it all up in one department, when discussing it with investors. As long as that does OK, it's fine. If sales slump on one sports game, it doesn't matter. Because FIFA and Madden are mega hits and help keep faith in the Sports division. The fate of individual games are handled more internally.

 

EA has gone out and said that Inquisition had the strongest opening weeks of any Bioware game, and its performance above expectations was responsible in part for a great quarter in terms of sales.

 

EA doesn't release precise sales numbers anymore. But I strongly doubt they would lie to investors just to cover up an alleged poor performance of a Bioware RPG, which all things considered isn't as important to their games lineup as the Battlefields and Maddens of this world.

 

Combined with Inquisition sweeping the GOTY awards for it year (yes, yes, not the strongest year ever, yadda yadda, it still did) and I doubt EA had cause for complaint about the game's performance.

[Gothfather]

Do you have numbers for these sales? It didn't even hit the NPD charts. I could make some room for digital sales not being counted, but that's still pretty lame. Especially for the budget a game like DAI requires. Witcher 3 made the charts 2 months in a row and it cost 80 million. I'm pretty sure DAI cost more and made less.

 

All that matters are numbers. Not industry awards or fluffy slogans that EA puts out in press releases. And I know you know this. I think you're fairly intelligent...so I'm not trying to be patronizing.

 

On a sidenote, go to an outside forum and DAI gets ridiculed plenty. I mean, like the offtopic section in an exercise forum or something. Anything. There aren't droves of people praising it.

 

Yes we know that sales where strong for DA:I, EA's shareholders meeting showed strong profitability for the company's computer games division when in the first quarter of calender date 2015 (not to be confused with EA's fiscal dates) when they had only two new game releases during that quarter and the previous quarter which matches EA stating that DA:I had the strongest sales for any game that BIOWARE has made, Not any game in history or games currently released. Using the metric of measuring sales against yourself is actually now more accurate than using any point of sale system because digital sales are becoming such a significant portion of sales that Point of Sales systems are not longer even used at a benchmark for investors. Part of the reason is that not only is it an inaccurate indicator it is less profitable than digital sales meaning companies have zero intensive to care about NPD charts, which have become more for the consumer and brick and mortar stores than for actual publishers. It helps show the relative strength of game sales for retail chains but actual publishers are more concerned about their own internal metrics because shareholders are now educated in the fact that point of sale numbers mean nothing to profitability.

 

One single gamers' choice award is not indicative of anything but multiple GAMERS' choice awards is indicative that gamers like the game because it is consumers that vote for these awards not the industry. So while the awards can't say it was a good game it can say customers/consumers/the market liked the game.

 

 

[Source] http://investor.ea.com/results.cfm

https://en.wikipedia...ge:_Inquisition

 

So yes there are actual hard facts that can be researched that show that DA:I was liked and sold well.

[Gothfather]

Nope. The game suffers from open world which is fact and not only said by myself. Fetch quests and lack of cinematic dialogues are what Bioware sacrificed to achieve their empty world. I'm not just repeating what I think, these are things people have criticized about DAI over and over again. My favorite Dragon Age game is DA2, but I wouldn't still claim I love how repetitive the dungeons are. Game has good points, but did it do open world well? No they didn't and I'd like them to learn from that cause they are attempting that second time- but all I what I have been hearing from marketing is that they haven't listened and haven't learned. They are sacrificing "Biowareness" of the game to make big game in size and that's not clever no matter how they try to market it as such.

 

Again you can't see beyond your own faking opinion. You subjectively feel that Bioware didn't do open world well so you conclude they didn't without taking your head out of your own as$ to look around and see the people that disagree with you. All you see is the people who don't because of confirmation bias. People on the forums agree with me ergo I must be right yet you are ignoring the constant stream of evidence that people actually LIKE the game, that people actually like open world. You ignore that constant responses of people on these forums saying we like the new approach. Why? because it doesn't fit your narrative. Hell I point out that the MARKET likes open world as we can see strong sales for the last three AAA RPG games released and your response is that doesn't count because that isn't bioware? WTF? If open world was not well liked was not a feature gamers desired then sales would be soft for open world games but they are not.

 

You feel Bioware isn't listening to YOU because you are not listening to the fans around you saying we like the game, we like open worlds. Bioware is listening but they are simply listening to the larger number than you represent.

[In Exile]

The problem would be if EA had crazy internal projections for DAI too. But there's no evidence of that, and this isn't really an EA thing -- DA2 may have underperformed, but that was an experiment in lower budgeting for a nominally AAA franchise.

Hey, what's the point of this DAI discussion? If we're seriously discussing whether or not DAI underperformed because of bad exploration, then it can't have any relevance to MEA. EA can't simultaneously consider a design feature a failure and want to repeat using that feature, can they? Particularly an expensive feature.

What am I supposed to be scared of? That DAI failed, or that DAI succeeded?

 

Both, obviously. 

[Gothfather]

The problem would be if EA had crazy internal projections for DAI too. But there's no evidence of that, and this isn't really an EA thing -- DA2 may have underperformed, but that was an experiment in lower budgeting for a nominally AAA franchise.

Hey, what's the point of this DAI discussion? If we're seriously discussing whether or not DAI underperformed because of bad exploration, then it can't have any relevance to MEA. EA can't simultaneously consider a design feature a failure and want to repeat using that feature, can they? Particularly an expensive feature.

What am I supposed to be scared of? That DAI failed, or that DAI succeeded?

 

The point is that some people will always dislike the current approach a developer has with a game. Right now the buzz with bioware is switching to the open world concept. Previously with ME1 it was switching over to a voiced protagonist the number of OMG the sky is falling posts of how Bioware ruined RPGs with a voiced protagonists could have broken the internet (obvious hyperbole).

 

Now their dislike is genuine in that they, I assume, honestly dislike the approach but that isn't any reason for a developer to stop said direction, as gamers are not a single monolith demographic, so there will ALWAYS be a portion of your fan base that dislikes any given feature you make. Right now the AAA RPG landscape is bleak, if you don't like strong narrative RPGs set in a open world setting with a voice protagonist as the three top AAA rpg studios have all made these type of games in their last outing. If however you like all these things as i do then the  AAA RPGs market has never looked better.

 

This thread is an "OMG bioware is doing something i don't like" thread, and it is trying to cage DA:I's failure as proof it is the wrong approach, yet there isn't even a consensus that DA:I was a failure like can be said with DA2 (which isn't to say it failed for all people many people like that game with each passing year DA2 gets more popular lol.) hence the conflict.

[Panda]

Again you can't see beyond your own faking opinion. You subjectively feel that Bioware didn't do open world well so you conclude they didn't without taking your head out of your own as$ to look around and see the people that disagree with you. All you see is the people who don't because of confirmation bias. People on the forums agree with me ergo I must be right yet you are ignoring the constant stream of evidence that people actually LIKE the game, that people actually like open world. You ignore that constant responses of people on these forums saying we like the new approach. Why? because it doesn't fit your narrative. Hell I point out that the MARKET likes open world as we can see strong sales for the last three AAA RPG games released and your response is that doesn't count because that isn't bioware? WTF? If open world was not well liked was not a feature gamers desired then sales would be soft for open world games but they are not.

 

You feel Bioware isn't listening to YOU because you are not listening to the fans around you saying we like the game, we like open worlds. Bioware is listening but they are simply listening to the larger number than you represent.

 

You seem quite fixated that my comment is based on just my own views when it's not, it's biggest criticism DAI got (well technical problems and bugginess was biggest, but after patches). I do agree that EA can sell well with marketing these words of "size", "exploring" and "open world" without actually promising big maps of the game to have any kind of substance in them.

 

And YOU can like DAI all you want, but don't be delusional with it. Bioware didn't need to get so fixated on open worldness and size of  the game that they forgot what they do best. For example there was no need to get rid of cinematic dialogue- Bethesda has it with FO4 even if they have open world game, but I guess Bioware just overcompensated after criticism of DA2 and forgot what was great about that game.  Rather than that they could have expanded maps without doing tons of empty space and without losing important elements of the game.

[AlanC9]

Don't watch it and move along, problem solved. Have a nice day

I didn't. I've got a "never watch" policy on these things unless the creator of the video is present in the thread, in which case I might put in five minutes or so.

[AlanC9]

You seem quite fixated that my comment is based on just my own views when it's not, it's biggest criticism DAI got (well technical problems and bugginess was biggest, but after patches). I do agree that EA can sell well with marketing these words of "size", "exploring" and "open world" without actually promising big maps of the game to have any kind of substance in them.
 
And YOU can like DAI all you want, but don't be delusional with it. Bioware didn't need to get so fixated on open worldness and size of  the game that they forgot what they do best. For example there was no need to get rid of cinematic dialogue- Bethesda has it with FO4 even if they have open world game, but I guess Bioware just overcompensated after criticism of DA2 and forgot what was great about that game.  Rather than that they could have expanded maps without doing tons of empty space and without losing important elements of the game.

What's the point of hyperbole like "get rid of cinematic dialogue?" Everyone knows that you actually mean "raise the ratio of non-cinematic to cinematic dialogue somewhat."

Anyway, can I take it that this puts you in the "worried that DAI succeeded" camp? Sounds like the problem is that DAI raises the odds that EA will figure that they can make money with a design for ME:A that you don't like.

[Panda]

What's the point of hyperbole like "get rid of cinematic dialogue?" Everyone knows that you actually mean "raise the ratio of non-cinematic to cinematic dialogue somewhat."

Anyway, can I take it that this puts you in the "worried that DAI succeeded" camp? Sounds like the problem is that DAI raises the odds that EA will figure that they can make money with a design for ME:A that you don't like.

 

DAI's amount of cinematic dialogue is so little that I think hyperbole is justifies, but yes they should raise the ratio to what it was which was majority of dialogue (90%>) when now it's like.. 5%, probably not even that.

 

Yes, I guess that's even more worrying than DAI failing. Cause DAI did succeed in sales which means that EA can just keep marketing empty words and Bioware can keep making empty maps without noticing any problems.

[pdusen]

DAI's amount of cinematic dialogue is so little that I think hyperbole is justifies, but yes they should raise the ratio to what it was which was majority of dialogue (90%>) when now it's like.. 5%, probably not even that.

 

Cinematic conversations were never anywhere near 90%. They were never even near 50%. It's fine if you prefer being zoomed into speaking, expressionless faces, but call it what it is.

[In Exile]

DAI's amount of cinematic dialogue is so little that I think hyperbole is justifies, but yes they should raise the ratio to what it was which was majority of dialogue (90%>) when now it's like.. 5%, probably not even that.

 

Yes, I guess that's even more worrying than DAI failing. Cause DAI did succeed in sales which means that EA can just keep marketing empty words and Bioware can keep making empty maps without noticing any problems.

 

Hold on. DA:I had a lot of cinematic dialogue, as did DA2. There's a difference between cinematic (i.e., the kind of mimicry of film and TV camera work) that you get in the cutscenes in certain major parts of the game, and a dialogue-zoomed in camera. DA:O used the same camera as KoTOR. We called it "cinematic" because I think that's the buzzword they pushed with KoTOR but even with ME, a lot of the dialogue wasn't actually "cinematic". Occasionally it was, but this was rare. 

[10K]

I didn't. I've got a "never watch" policy on these things unless the creator of the video is present in the thread, in which case I might put in five minutes or so.

Then why complain about it, if it has no effect on you in the first place? Am I not permitted to post videos; seriously what's the problem? Prime example of the arrogance around here. You have a "never watch" policy and everyone has to know about it how about criticize what I'm posting about, instead of criticizing how I go about formatting it. But I'm truly sorry for the lack of paragraphs in my response offending you.