238 réponses à ce sujet

[pdusen]

They had planned on an MMO at first.
 
http://www.gamespot....y/1100-6423362/

That's not what that article says. Read it again (or, more likely, read it at all.)

[straykat]

That's not what that article says. Read it again (or, more likely, read it at all.)

 

I know what the article says. It's about multiplayer only.. but it was hardly small scale multiplayer. They were veering into MMO ideas. I don't know how much of the high level design was intended as MMO specifically though. Apparently many of the main designers looked at Guild Wars 2 (and not just Skyrim, like people think). And many were definitely mmo players, at least according to Mark Wilson. A guy with more experience with MUDs. It's not an accident it turned out the way it did.

[pdusen]

I know what the article says. It's about multiplayer only.. but it was hardly small scale multiplayer. They were veering into MMO ideas. I don't know how much of the high level design was intended as MMO specifically though. Apparently many of the main designers looked at Guild Wars 2 (and not just Skyrim, like people think). And many were definitely mmo players, at least according to Mark Wilson. A guy with more experience with MUDs. It's not an accident it turned out the way it did.

 

There are aspects of DAI that turned out very MMO-like, I agree, but people here have previously cited that article as proof that DAI was originally planned to be an MMO, and there's no evidence of that being true (either in that article, or otherwise).

[straykat]

There are aspects of DAI that turned out very MMO-like, I agree, but people here have previously cited that article as proof that DAI was originally planned to be an MMO, and there's no evidence of that being true (either in that article, or otherwise).

 

I'll be fair and say I suspect they wanted to recreate the PnP experience. Sounds like they were trying to do that with that other game that got canceled too (forgot the name). And if we go back to NWN, they tried it there too (successfully, I suppose). I think what screams "MMO" to me are the developers themselves and the inspiration they draw on. At least NWN had Brent Knowles.

[Sanunes]

I know what the article says. It's about multiplayer only.. but it was hardly small scale multiplayer. They were veering into MMO ideas. I don't know how much of the high level design was intended as MMO specifically though. Apparently many of the main designers looked at Guild Wars 2 (and not just Skyrim, like people think). And many were definitely mmo players, at least according to Mark Wilson. A guy with more experience with MUDs. It's not an accident it turned out the way it did.

 

To me that is still a logic jump to go from either one of those articles to claim that the game was going to be a MMO, for a lot of conclusions are being made to prove that is the point.  Yes they looked at Guild Wars 2 for level design and yes they looked at being multiplayer only.  The problem I am having is we don't know when in development or for how long they looked at multiplayer only, it might have been only a couple of weeks after looking at these forums and they kept seeing posts about multiplayer being needed. Just like the interview I saw with Mark Wilson when he said everyone looked at Guild Wars 2 for how there were items in off path areas such as behind a waterfall.

[Dabrikishaw]

In a word?




Cerberus.

Yeah, If Cerberus survived in anyway then I'll call bullshit on Andromeda's narrative.

[straykat]

To me that is still a logic jump to go from either one of those articles to claim that the game was going to be a MMO, for a lot of conclusions are being made to prove that is the point.  Yes they looked at Guild Wars 2 for level design and yes they looked at being multiplayer only.  The problem I am having is we don't know when in development or for how long they looked at multiplayer only, it might have been only a couple of weeks after looking at these forums and they kept seeing posts about multiplayer being needed. Just like the interview I saw with Mark Wilson when he said everyone looked at Guild Wars 2 for how there were items in off path areas such as behind a waterfall.

 

Fair enough. I'm not going to guess at lengths either. I'm sure it was longer than weeks though. And had nothing to do with the forums. They wouldn't have hired people with these backgrounds if that was the case. And I think most people who come from that development sector don't even know how to think about games (at least the way I'm used to). They design busy work, time sinks, and actions that almost look like games.. but they don't play like it. They make MMO like things, even if they're told not to.

 

But this isn't actually my biggest gripe. Even though I'm speaking about it. I'm more disappointed with the story than anything.

[vbibbi]

One of my top fears: Diversity for the sake of diversity; which ruin story lines and creates shallow characters.

Micah Curtis can explain this real well in his video. I agree with a lot of his points, which is why I would like EAware to stop with this diversity quota already. Don't get me wrong, diversity is a beautiful thing. But when you're just adding characters to be more "inclusive" and to please everyone, things become shallow quickly. Just saying.

I really can't take anyone seriously who is wearing an American flag as a shirt. He comes across as one of the majority who is feeling threatened by the increase in prominence of minorities and sees any use of diversity as an attack against the majority.

[AlleyD]

Yeah, If Cerberus survived in anyway then I'll call bullshit on Andromeda's narrative.

 

Linking in Cerberus into Andromeda would definitely kill my interest in the franchise and the brand.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

being half assed as:

 

[Rascoth]

being half assed as:

As a fan of this series I have to say... Thank God I abandoned it. For me it ended with V.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

As a fan of this series I have to say... Thank God I abandoned it. For me it ended with V.

 

Only with Dwarves and Orcs expansions. Dwarves are my 2nd favorites. The other factions are well created too and the game is perfectly balanced and attractive.

[AlanC9]

I'll be fair and say I suspect they wanted to recreate the PnP experience. Sounds like they were trying to do that with that other game that got canceled too (forgot the name). And if we go back to NWN, they tried it there too (successfully, I suppose). I think what screams "MMO" to me are the developers themselves and the inspiration they draw on. At least NWN had Brent Knowles.

I'm not sure PnP had too much to do with it. Much of DAI gameplay is about mastering difficult physical terrain --not just shards, but basic navigation -- and exploring large maps. This isn't a PnP thing. There are PnP games where you do get down into the weeds with gear and stuff, though.

Honestly, the ME games always struck me as the most PnP-like. Particularly ME2's "Mission Complete" screen; in PnP you wouldn't typically play out heading back to the ship, you'd just handwave that and hand out the XP awards.

As for how structured the narrative is, different PnP groups went different ways on that.

[Sartoz]

Huge size of the maps and open worlds drains resources from other stuff. Or do you think those don't take time and resources to make that could be used somewhere they were used in earlier DA games?

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Terrain rendering is done in real time by the FB3 engine. Artists go in to customize specific areas of the map.

 

See sample code: http://www.frostbite...n_Frostbite.pdf

From GDC 2012 DICE presentation: http://www.frostbite...attlefield3.pdf

 

[Gothfather]

Huge size of the maps and open worlds drains resources from other stuff. Or do you think those don't take time and resources to make that could be used somewhere they were used in earlier DA games?

 

WTF? Are you so blind? You see only one thing you don't like and blame that as the resource hog. How about you get your [blank] out of your [blank]. DA:I did SOOOOOO many resource hog stunts that it shows. The worse is player choice resource hogs but you like that so these resource hogs are rainbows and unicorns but you are not a fan of open world so that is the causal factor to your precious cinematic dialogue. The fact that you single out this one thing shows just how biased and emotional based your opinion is.

 

What you don't think doubling the cost of voicing the protagonist which is actually is in the same department of creating the other dialogue in the game MIGHT just MIGHT have had more of an impact on cinematic dialogue? No it couldn't be I mean I like that option so it can't be to blame. What about have 12 companion/advisors in the game? I mean all those characters are going to eat up the 'word budget' of the rest of the game especially when they doubled the 'word budget' of the protagonist by having 4 voices vs just two. What you don't think these two DIRECT impacts on the game's 'word budget' would be more to blame than something in another department? Let me guess you like Bioware NPCs so they couldn't possibly be to blame it has to be open world.

 

FRAKING HELL. seriously did you do any dispassionate reasoning at all on this? 

 

Yeah resources are limited but how about we look at WTF each department did and see if they made any choices WITHIN the departments that could have a direct impact on their budgets before we blame what a separate department did with their budget. I don't know about you but I am not going to blame the level design department for lack deep writing. I am going to look at the direct choices the devs made the actually ate up their word budget, that we can directly point at and say yes that takes up part of the word budget no question, without having to speculate that x department did y so that must mean they shaved money off their 'word budget.'

 

[Source] http://www.makinggam...mbers,6845.html

 

THis link talks about how they do dialogue in the game with direct regards to the dialogue and writing. It is directly speaking about party members but it goes through the process how this works and so it is faily easy to see how 12 companions/advisors and 4 voice actors for the protagonist directly impacted the budgets for cinematic dialogue. At least the link is far more plausible and rational to blame these changes then Boo hoo bioware did open world that is what ruined the game's dialogue.

 

 

And just to be clear, I have zero problem with a bunch of gamers hate open world. I just have a problem with unreasoned BS being used to blame open world for issue that are not its fault. Or do you have actual evidence that shows how open world is the cause. I mean seriously open world is more to blame the doubling the cost of voicing the protagonist? Seriously?

[KaiserShep]

Honestly, if the cost of getting more dialogue with companions means that only a fraction of these sequences get the shot/reverse shot "cinematic"-like cut scenes, I'll take it in a heartbeat. I value having more interaction time overall. It's not a huge leap from what we already had in ME3, but that was worse because it was just some autodialogue and often Shepard didn't even react to it. 

[Sartoz]

Honestly, if the cost of getting more dialogue with companions means that only a fraction of these sequences get the shot/reverse shot "cinematic"-like cut scenes, I'll take it in a heartbeat. I value having more interaction time overall. It's not a huge leap from what we already had in ME3, but that was worse because it was just some autodialogue and often Shepard didn't even react to it. 

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A reaction to auto dialogue, companion dialogue or NPC dialogue would add to the illusion of a "live" world.

[UniformGreyColor]

It is my personal opinion that if DA:I would've been an MMO, it would have not had the success it had.

[Khrystyn]

My biggest fear for this game?

 

If it turns out that BW listened to the absurd hyper-critics, the trolls, the crabby little people, those who are insulting and crude, and the idiots who criticize everything. I will be stunned if this happens. Some people's fears are innane and aren't worth giving them any attention. That's why I keep reading this thread - it's so interesting!

I'm in a really ornery mood today. I've just had it with the nincompoops at work. I probably shouldn't have even logged-in.

[SlottsMachine]

Eh, if BioWare did a better job listening to and implementing feedback there games would be a better for it. I agree though, certain people do tend to focus more on the negative. I always try comment on things that I liked as well so its not just negativity. ie. For all the faults of ME2 of which there are many, that suicide mission was the bees knees. 

[Erstus]

Not exactly. I think it will be much worse.

I can't imagine such an abomination - I don't want too!

[Erstus]

Yep I'm glad I have a job so I don´t have time to fearmonger on the BSN.

Yet you have time to post about not having time to post about fear mongering on a forum?

Uh, ok...

[Creator Limbs]

Yet you have time to post about not having time to post about fear mongering on a forum?

Uh, ok...

 

I think you misunderstand. The amount of time it takes to fearmonger and the amount of time it takes to post a comment about not fearmongering are two entirely separate things.

[UniformGreyColor]

I can't imagine such an abomination - I don't want too!

 

I recently saw a headlining video game stating that there is "too much to do" in a certain MMO. Can't think of the name of the game, but there it is.

[KaiserShep]

I think you misunderstand. The amount of time it takes to fearmonger and the amount of time it takes to post a comment about not fearmongering are two entirely separate things.

 

 

That's quitter talk. Experienced fearmongers should be able to make time to mong fear in a single comment!