238 réponses à ce sujet

[fizzypop]

My fear is that it will be hyped as **** and be the **** show I think it could be. Once that hype wears off people will be pissed. That would hurt the fanbase so much and I really don't want to see bioware go the way of The sims team. That fall is just incredibly hard to watch.

[ZipZap2000]

Yeah, If Cerberus survived in anyway then I'll call bullshit on Andromeda's narrative.

We all would. But we'd all be irrelevant by then because they'd have put them in the game.

[Creator Limbs]

My fear is that it will be hyped as **** and be the **** show I think it could be. Once that hype wears off people will be pissed. That would hurt the fanbase so much and I really don't want to see bioware go the way of The sims team. That fall is just incredibly hard to watch.

 

 

LOL...the sims.

 

Same company, same downfall. Funny.

[Sartoz]

My fear is that it will be hyped as **** and be the **** show I think it could be. Once that hype wears off people will be pissed. That would hurt the fanbase so much and I really don't want to see bioware go the way of The sims team. That fall is just incredibly hard to watch.

                                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

You mean like ".. a PC game for PC gamers by PC gamers..."?

If so, I agree with you. It's a quote etched into  my brain and I like to thank Mike Laidlaw for the etching.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I really can't take anyone seriously who is wearing an American flag as a shirt. He comes across as one of the majority who is feeling threatened by the increase in prominence of minorities and sees any use of diversity as an attack against the majority.

 

*sigh*

 

Another SJW that needs to be educated.

 

1)"the majority" is not threatened by diversity or minorities. No individual who belongs to "the majority" due to an accident of birth feels threatened by diversity. Similarly, no such "member of the majority" individual feels threatened on behalf of "the majority".

This is a silly bigoted concept dreamed up by SJW's to justify their hatred of people who are not them.

2)"the majority" has no particular problem with diversity in games or other media. To suggest "the majority" does, is idiotic (and bigoted).

3)"Group think" is not real. "the majority" does not hold one monolithic view.

4)He goes on about this Manveer character because Manveer is, allegedly a racist, and, like all SJW's, a bigot. He apparently stated on twitter that "only white people can be racist.". Pretty convenient (if true) that he can redifine the word racist to exclude himself, while at the same time smearing an entire race. Racist? naaahhhh.

5)Assigning negative qualities to an entire group (like say, "the majority") is bigoted/racist behaviour.

6)Sure, some members of "the majority" are idiots, just like some members of all other groups. They don't speak for their groups any more than I do for the groups I identify with.

 

I just watched both parts of the series.

 

The video maker state outright he is all for more diversity. He is against tokenism. I'm not sure I agree with his definition of tokenism or his conclusions regarding the characters he mentions, but what he's saying is 'better written, more rounded characters are better than one dimensional characters that exist solely to represent a  minority, regardless of gender, skin colour or sexual orientation'. A far as specific points go, I agree with this.

 

But I agree with you about the shirt.

[AlanC9]

Well, that's the thing; "tokenism" is pretty hard to define in any objective fashion.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Well, that's the thing; "tokenism" is pretty hard to define in any objective fashion.

 

I watched enough 80's sitcoms to tell me the token character is the one minority in an otherwise all majority cast. The one white guy on The Jeffersons or the one black guy on, well, most American sitcoms..lol.. both fit. That's the only definition I hold. As far as Bioware games go, this is the case for the majority of their characters. Especially the aliens/non Humans.

[AlanC9]

Wait... you're saying that all the characters are tokens? Sounds like this concept isn't very useful.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Well, that's the thing; "tokenism" is pretty hard to define in any objective fashion.

 

Even if it was easy to define I don't think it would matter to the BSN. People here would still haphazardly throw it around like "retcon", "deus ex machina",  and "plot hole" even though these things have explicit definitions. 

[Dr. rotinaj]

One of my top fears: Diversity for the sake of diversity; which ruin story lines and creates shallow characters.

Micah Curtis can explain this real well in his video. I agree with a lot of his points, which is why I would like EAware to stop with this diversity quota already. Don't get me wrong, diversity is a beautiful thing. But when you're just adding characters to be more "inclusive" and to please everyone, things become shallow quickly. Just saying.

 

No, he doesn't explain this very well at all. He says Cortez is shallow because he's "The Gay Guy™" but in reality he's just a gay uninteresting character. Why doesn't he criticize Traynor for being "The Lesbian", Garrus for being "The Turian", Joker for being "The Disabled"? Probably because they are more interesting than Cortez. Tokens can be poorly written, but that doesn't mean that a token must be poorly written. 

 

Tbh the only time I thought that there was a poor example of "diversity for the sake of diversity" was when Iron Bull started talking about aqun-athloks. I wasn't very convinced.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Wait... you're saying that all the characters are tokens? Sounds like this concept isn't very useful.

 

Reality doesn't need to be useful to be reality. But I said most, not all?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

No, he doesn't explain this very well at all. He says Cortez is shallow because he's "The Gay Guy™" but in reality he's just a gay uninteresting character. Why doesn't he criticize Traynor for being "The Lesbian", Garrus for being "The Turian", Joker for being "The Disabled"? Probably because they are more interesting than Cortez. Tokens can be poorly written, but that doesn't mean that a token must be poorly written. 

 

Tbh the only time I thought that there was a poor example of "diversity for the sake of diversity" was when Iron Bull started talking about aqun-athloks. I wasn't very convinced.

 

Traynor had more interesting stuff to do than Cortez, plus she was in the CIC, so always there. She reported missions to you, while Cortez did not.

 

I didn't find either particularly objectionable though.

 

IB on the other hand.. yeah some of his dialog was ham fisted and cringy. Plus if you play a female toon, when you dance with the Baroness whazername you have the option of saying 'won't people think it's strange seeing two women dancing together? On taking it, you get a lecture and -10 points on the court meter.

 

Come on Bioware. Noone in the real world looks twice at two women dancing together. It happens all the time. What SJW fantasy world are you living on?

[Gothfather]

Even if it was easy to define I don't think it would matter to the BSN. People here would still haphazardly throw it around like "retcon", "deus ex machina",  and "plot hole" even though these things have explicit definitions. 

 

That is true. The internet is a vehicle for opinion is does not assure that only informed opinions are created.

[Gothfather]

Traynor had more interesting stuff to do than Cortez, plus she was in the CIC, so always there. She reported missions to you, while Cortez did not.

 

I didn't find either particularly objectionable though.

 

IB on the other hand.. yeah some of his dialog was ham fisted and cringy. Plus if you play a female toon, when you dance with the Baroness whazername you have the option of saying 'won't people think it's strange seeing two women dancing together? On taking it, you get a lecture and -10 points on the court meter.

 

Come on Bioware. Noone in the real world looks twice at two women dancing together. It happens all the time. What SJW fantasy world are you living on?

 

When people go on and on about SJW I have to wonder why. What fantasy world do you live in the SJW need to be stood up against? This idea that SJW are trying to take away our games is paranoia. I never have a problem with SJW most times because most times they simply want the all white male cast in games to be a little more diverse. Why is diversity wrong? What exactly are you railing against? 

 

I also laugh when people complain about tokenism and how that is bad but then when the last star wars movie didn't have a strong white male protagonist there were calls from people to boycott the movie or the last Road warrior should be boycotted because mens rights activist felt a movie about women fleeing sexual slavery was somehow anti men. Even though mad max a man is the fraking hero of the movie. So it is okay when most movies have a striaght while male protagonist but have a movie without one or a movie about women fleeing sexual enslavement and its bad? WTF?

 

So yeah why are you so fired up against SJWs? Hmmm. What you don't believe women and minorities suffer any discrimination? 

[Addictress]

Quit saying "consumers" when what you mean is "Myself and those who agree with me." The average consumer not only doesn't share your concerns, but also is completely unaware that they exist.

We, posting on this forum, are not even the 1%. We are at best the .01%. We aren't statistically significant.

An unfortunate truth as cruel and unjust as the rise of Trump.

[KaiserShep]

Maybe it's not Cortez that's shallow, but the video author himself. I especially like the part when he says that Jar Jar Binx has more development than the characters of Inquisition. The point gets kind of lost in that kind of goofy hyperbole. 

[Cyonan]

I watched enough 80's sitcoms to tell me the token character is the one minority in an otherwise all majority cast. The one white guy on The Jeffersons or the one black guy on, well, most American sitcoms..lol.. both fit. That's the only definition I hold. As far as Bioware games go, this is the case for the majority of their characters. Especially the aliens/non Humans.

 

but if the majority is token characters, then wouldn't that stop them from being token characters?

 

You're claiming that the majority of characters are a minority in an otherwise majority group in BioWare games.

 

When people go on and on about SJW I have to wonder why. What fantasy world do you live in the SJW need to be stood up against? This idea that SJW are trying to take away our games is paranoia. I never have a problem with SJW most times because most times they simply want the all white male cast in games to be a little more diverse. Why is diversity wrong? What exactly are you railing against? 

 

I also laugh when people complain about tokenism and how that is bad but then when the last star wars movie didn't have a strong white male protagonist there were calls from people to boycott the movie or the last Road warrior should be boycotted because mens rights activist felt a movie about women fleeing sexual slavery was somehow anti men. Even though mad max a man is the fraking hero of the movie. So it is okay when most movies have a striaght while male protagonist but tell a movie without one or tell a movie about women fleeing sexual enslavement and its bad? WTF?

 

So yeah why are you so fired up against SJWs? Hmmm. What you don't believe women and minorities suffer any discrimination? 

 

What people don't like are the SJWs who complain any time anything doesn't go the exact way they want it. Not simply the people who want a female or minority character in the game.

 

We're talking about the people who complain that a character's pose in the game Overwatch is "too sexy" and actually get Blizzard to change it. The ones who argue as though a woman is never supposed to show any amount of sexuality and if they do, it ruins their character because they're "just a sex symbol".

 

When it comes to the internet, those SJWs are the loudest and most seen. If I'm being honest I wouldn't even consider somebody merely asking for more female or minority characters to be a SJW.

 

Even as a straight white guy I'm sick of so many video game protagonists being the grizzled straight white guy. I get to be a straight white guy every day of my life, let me be an alien or something.

[KaiserShep]

IB on the other hand.. yeah some of his dialog was ham fisted and cringy. Plus if you play a female toon, when you dance with the Baroness whazername you have the option of saying 'won't people think it's strange seeing two women dancing together? On taking it, you get a lecture and -10 points on the court meter.

 

Come on Bioware. Noone in the real world looks twice at two women dancing together. It happens all the time. What SJW fantasy world are you living on?

 

 

Well, no one in the real world today at least, but I don't see the problem with the dialogue option. After all, this just permits you to have your character to adhere to some other set of social mores. You could just as well think that maybe it's a part of your character's background, or people just don't do that sort of thing where they come from, which may especially be true if your character is a Qunari. It'll sure contradict an Inquisitor that's romancing Josephine or Sera, but that's why you get to judge what fits. 

[AlanC9]

If there's a problem with that line, it's that Thedas already is a SJW fantasy world WRT gender roles.

[Fandango]

My greatest fear is that someone hands Mac Walters a pen.

[Cyonan]

My greatest fear is that someone hands Mac Walters a pen.

 

I don't imagine anybody is handing him a pen.

 

but the interns probably hand him a coffee as he types the story on his computer =P

[Gothfather]

but if the majority is token characters, then wouldn't that stop them from being token characters?

 

You're claiming that the majority of characters are a minority in an otherwise majority group in BioWare games.

 

 

What people don't like are the SJWs who complain any time anything doesn't go the exact way they want it. Not simply the people who want a female or minority character in the game.

 

We're talking about the people who complain that a character's pose in the game Overwatch is "too sexy" and actually get Blizzard to change it. The ones who argue as though a woman is never supposed to show any amount of sexuality and if they do, it ruins their character because they're "just a sex symbol".

 

When it comes to the internet, those SJWs are the loudest and most seen. If I'm being honest I wouldn't even consider somebody merely asking for more female or minority characters to be a SJW.

 

Even as a straight white guy I'm sick of so many video game protagonists being the grizzled straight white guy. I get to be a straight white guy every day of my life, let me be an alien or something.

 

I don't know about anyone else but i get annoyed at sexuality that doesn't make FRAKING sense. Take armour in ME1 vs ME2 & ME3 wtf is Miranda wearing into combat? I have no trouble with the butt angles and the like but when you look at Ashley's armour in ME1 vs ME3 its stupid. I am an adult not a fraking teenager I don't need female characters running around in the obligatory 'chainmail bikini' and told its armour or the latex body suits of ME2 and ME3. Sure wear it on the ship just not in COMBAT. The amount of SJW bs that gets thrown around over asking that armour actually be armour tells me that SJW is a meaningless label that immature straight male gamers use at anyone that says it is time games especially mature titles actually be mature. The people i see complaining about sexuality are teh religious right that want nudity removed from the game. I rarely see 'feminists' complaining about sex in bioware games. And asking for gay or lesbian sexuality is not complaining about hetro sexuality. It is just people saying I'm X so I would Like X romances, which is the same thing as people asking for a blond love interest thread. It isn't anything different. Where are the cries of tokenism and SJWs there? Could it be that it is asking for something that many straight male gamers want so its fine but if it isn't something they want its SJWs forcing things into the game?

 

Spacecowboy is going on and on about SJW with regards to cortez. It isn't like Cortez is the worse character in the franchise and his fraking sexuality ISN'T his defining trait him being a widower is his defining trait. And he can't talk about his loss without mentioning who he lost and THAT is how you know he is gay. He doesn't say I'm a gay widower. He says he lost his husband which is NOT the same thing. He isn't broadcasting his sexuality in fact i can't recall him bringing up his sexuality once. yes we immediately know he is gay because we are not stupid when a man says 'i lost my husband to the collectors.' we know his sexuality, but that is only because we can see Cortez's gender and husband is a gender specific title. But it isn't a broadcast of one's sexuality had cortex been straight he's have responded in EXACTLY the same fraking way with only one change he's say 'I lost my wife to the collectors.' Would people be up in arms at how Cortez is broadcasting his sexuality then? NO. yet it is the EXACT same thing the only difference is that one is acceptable to people because it is heterosexual and the other isn't because it is homosexual. And because it is homosexual its inclusion is tokenism or only in the game because of SJWs. It is bullsh!t. The reason why people are up in arms is because they are actual bigots.

 

What i don't understand is what the frak the problem is, I share their position of having zero desire to partake in gay romances yet somehow I magically navigate the game without partaking in it but these other people somehow can't escape the power of the gay penis? Somehow it is forcing them to partake in the gay content and it is all because of SJWs forced it into the game? WTF? Seriously how does that work?

[Fuenf789]

An unfortunate truth as cruel and unjust as the rise of Trump.

Well. I think it was game-over for him when he wanted to punish women for getting an abortion.
Go tell that to a wife, girlfriend or sister like that and see if she doesn't bite your head off.
Whatever we might believe to be right it is not for us to judge with such blanket statements.

So now only remains some spasms of a dead kicking horse.
It was entertaining, and frightening, nonetheless, to see how quickly we can sway masses of people that otherwise are normal functioning adults. It can still happen in this modern day and age. In all countries. Shows the power of media.

I hope that mass effect andromeda also allow us to use propaganda since it is part and parcel of modern day warfare.

[Cyonan]

What i don't understand is what the frak the problem is

 

What I don't understand is why you feel the need to resort to personal attacks against: Religious people, right wing people, and straight men on top of claiming that those who don't agree with you are simply bigots or immature straight guys.

 

but I guess we'll never know, because you clearly aren't interested in an actual discussion as much as you are bashing everybody who doesn't agree with your point of view. My guess is that if I point out that I do think Cortez is just a token gay person who is boring, I'll be called a bigot for thinking that.

[Catastrophy]

My greatest fear is that someone hands Mac Walters a pen.

Ridiculous, he brings his own pen, of course.