224 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Qis]

It is wrong and unjustified....

 

No matter how anyone want to justify his execution,

 

i. there are only 3 Grey Wardens...The Warden, Alistair and Riordan...so killing Alistair reduce the number of Grey Warden...Loghain is not a guarantee survive the Joining (of course he survive because the game say so). Leaving Alistair alive is better, despite he's departing, should everyone failed there's one Grey Warden remain in Ferelden, no matter if he still care or not

 

ii. Alistair is a Grey Warden, Anora as a Queen of Ferelden have no right to execute Grey Warden, no right at all, not to mention it is a Blight going on. Grey Warden is above any laws especially during The Blight, Alistair is not subjected to Ferelden law whatsoever.

 

Killing Alistair is short sighted decision making, Ferelden politic is NOTHING if there is no Ferelden anymore consumed by The Blight...i don't say Alistair is a wise and insightful person, everyone in the Landsmeet are greedy bastards, so put every blame on Alistair alone is moot...it is The Warden decision that can break the stalemate caused by stupid politicians....

[Mike3207]

there are only 3 Grey Wardens...The Warden, Alistair and Riordan...so killing Alistair reduce the number of Grey Warden...Loghain is not a guarantee survive the Joining (of course he survive because the game say so). Leaving Alistair alive is better, despite he's departing, should everyone failed there's one Grey Warden remain in Ferelden, no matter if he still care or not

 

Anora doesn't kill Alistair until after her father survives the Joining. There is no change in the total number of wardens if she executes Alistair.

 

Alistair is a Grey Warden, Anora as a Queen of Ferelden have no right to execute Grey Warden, no right at all, not to mention it is a Blight going on. Grey Warden is above any laws especially during The Blight, Alistair is not subjected to Ferelden law whatsoever.

 

If that was the case, Riordan wouldn't have ended up in a jail cell and the wardens wouldn't have been exiled from Ferelden. They're not above Ferelden law any more than anyone else.

 

Except the members of the Chantry of course. They can break any law they choose without facing punishment of any sort.

[Secret Rare]

It is wrong and unjustified....


ii. Alistair is a Grey Warden, Anora as a Queen of Ferelden have no right to execute Grey Warden, no right at all, not to mention it is a Blight going on. Grey Warden is above any laws especially during The Blight, Alistair is not subjected to Ferelden law whatsoever.

Alistair is not a GW anymore because prior to Anora order he said "i'm no longer a GW"
thus Riordan was not able to do anything for him.
Drunk Alistair is not a GW.

[kimgoold]

I can Never Kill Alistair, now Loghain the Slimebag no Probs! I only wish I could cut down the Reptile Anora when Alistair doesn't !!. Any Mods to do just this and I'd buy it. Infact I'd buy 10.

 

I also seem to remember a prophecy about Mt Dragonsbreath? (I cant remember the name) a dormant volcano would explode when the last descendant of Calenhad's bloodline dies. And considering how we have Sandals prophecy I'm not one to risk it regardless. And certainly not for that sow Anora.

[Dai Grepher]

I think  Duncan  would have probably killed Alistair in the given situation since he doesn't seem the type who tolerate desertions within the order.

That would have been entertaining to see, but most likely Duncan would have been able to convince Alistair to see reason.

From the direction of Eamon arl don't lurk danger: Anora is Eamon's cousin.

Niece-in-law.
 

Incidentally, I think, Anora not a legitimate ruler, she only the widow of the deceased king. Because Maric's family extinct (if Alistair do not want to be king), interregnum occurs, and the Landsmeet can decide which of the noble family set a king and who would be the king.

The Landsmeet decides every new ruler. No exceptions.

However, Anora don't have the prerogative against the Cousland-descendant (I think). (From Anora's family arl Eamon Guerrin the rightful heir.)

I agree that the Cousland is the top pick for the throne. But Anora is not related to Eamon. She is a Mac Tir, not a Guerrin. Cailan was Eamon's nephew through Queen Rowan.

i. there are only 3 Grey Wardens...The Warden, Alistair and Riordan...so killing Alistair reduce the number of Grey Warden.

Alistair quit and fled.

ii. Alistair is a Grey Warden, Anora as a Queen of Ferelden have no right to execute Grey Warden, no right at all, not to mention it is a Blight going on. Grey Warden is above any laws especially during The Blight, Alistair is not subjected to Ferelden law whatsoever.

No they aren't. The Inquisitor has authorization to exile them. Arland exiled them, and killed them.

Killing Alistair is short sighted decision making

No, I posted reasons of my own before this.

[sniper_arrow]

Rare,Its how we play the game.. I suspect the majority of us don't have bloodlust and feel the need to kill our team mates-that would be like a stupidly dumb soldier killing his own squad because he simply can.

 

Of course I realize a lot of these topic are nothing more then camouflage  trolling.

 

To you, maybe. Then again, you posted and contributed to the trolling.

[Tidus]

No trolling just common sense but,that's a rarity on any forum especially gaming forums since most gamers feel their way is the only way

 

Alistair doesn't desert except in the minds that doesn't understand one thing about desertion.. Loghain deserted the battlefield at Ostagar while King Alistair lead the Denerim charge.

 

Loghain would be courts martial for dereliction of duty,failure to obey orders, cowardice in the face of the enemy and desertion under fire. All carries the death penalty in war..

[Qis]

Anora doesn't kill Alistair until after her father survives the Joining. There is no change in the total number of wardens if she executes Alistair.

 

If that was the case, Riordan wouldn't have ended up in a jail cell and the wardens wouldn't have been exiled from Ferelden. They're not above Ferelden law any more than anyone else.

 

Except the members of the Chantry of course. They can break any law they choose without facing punishment of any sort.

 

 

No they aren't. The Inquisitor has authorization to exile them. Arland exiled them, and killed them.

 

Anora order the execution BEFORE Loghain survive the Joining

 

That simply means Loghain is wrong, Grey Warden is above any laws, especially during The Blight.

 

Being exiled from Ferelden does not make Grey Warden are subjected to any laws. Grey Warden are above politic.

 

Not even Chantry can say anything, the fact that Grey Warden can recruit Blood Mage means they are above Chantry law

 

Inquisition just assume power, that does not make everyone subjected to them. Inquisition is just a group who assume they have power over everything, it doesn't make everyone must kneel to them.

 

 

Alistair is not a GW anymore because prior to Anora order he said "i'm no longer a GW"
thus Riordan was not able to do anything for him.
Drunk Alistair is not a GW.

 

Once a Grey Warden forever a Grey Warden, what Alistair said doesn't mean anything, he belong to the order and only the order can dismiss him.

 

Riordan is a fool, he not only suggesting to recruit Loghain, he also do not defend his fellow men, he don't reveal where Grey Warden secret compartment until asked, he don't reveal how to kill Archdemon until the last minute, then he jump on the Archdemon and die horibly...being a Grey Warden doesn't make Riordan is a smart and wise person

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Anora order the execution BEFORE Loghain survive the Joining






Once a Grey Warden forever a Grey Warden, what Alistair said doesn't mean anything, he belong to the order and only the order can dismiss him.

Riordan is a fool, he not only suggesting to recruit Loghain, he also do not defend his fellow men, he don't reveal where Grey Warden secret compartment until asked, he don't reveal how to kill Archdemon until the last minute, then he jump on the Archdemon and die horibly...being a Grey Warden doesn't make Riordan is a smart and wise person

We don't know when Alistair is killed at the Landsmeet they just take him.

GW are free to chose, Anders is not a GW in DA2 because he doesn't work for the Gw anymore.
You can be tainted all you want but if you don't work for the Organization you are not a GW.

That is writing issues blame the writers not Riordan or Duncan since not even Duncan reveal the US to Alistair in 6th f**** months of time while Riordan don't create more GW,that is called plot holes for the dark ritual nonsense.

[Akiza]

Actually i killed Alistair at the landsmeet (then Loghain as well vs the archdemon) since i do not tolerate those who don't obey to the order.

[Dai Grepher]

Alistair doesn't desert except in the minds that doesn't understand one thing about desertion.. Loghain deserted the battlefield at Ostagar while King Alistair lead the Denerim charge.

If Alistair refuses to defend Ferelden from the Darkspawn, he is a deserter by definition.
 

Anora order the execution BEFORE Loghain survive the Joining

Ordering it before the Joining does not mean the execution happened before the Joining.
 

That simply means Loghain is wrong, Grey Warden is above any laws, especially during The Blight.

Wrong or not, Riordan was subjected to Loghain's enforcement.
 

Being exiled from Ferelden does not make Grey Warden are subjected to any laws. Grey Warden are above politic.

It does actually. Arland banished them, and they were not allowed in until Maric permitted.
 

Not even Chantry can say anything, the fact that Grey Warden can recruit Blood Mage means they are above Chantry law

I think the bloodmagic is simply kept secret from the Chantry.
 

Inquisition just assume power, that does not make everyone subjected to them. Inquisition is just a group who assume they have power over everything, it doesn't make everyone must kneel to them.

Except that this is exactly what happens if you exile them.
 

Once a Grey Warden forever a Grey Warden, what Alistair said doesn't mean anything, he belong to the order and only the order can dismiss him.

Anyone who walks away is no longer a Grey Warden. They are just someone with taint resistance walking around until the taint takes over.
 

Riordan is a fool, he not only suggesting to recruit Loghain, he also do not defend his fellow men, he don't reveal where Grey Warden secret compartment until asked, he don't reveal how to kill Archdemon until the last minute, then he jump on the Archdemon and die horibly...being a Grey Warden doesn't make Riordan is a smart and wise person

You have your own topic about this. My reply to all of these points can be found there.

[Tidus]

Dia,Absolutely.. He would be just as guilty as Loghain but, Alistair leads the charge-unless there's a mod that changes that. If he becomes Queen Andora's prisoner then he could be found guilty of cowardice because he surrender while he still had the means to fight. 

 

Here's the way that works. If your unit is overwhelm and surrenders that is acceptable however, if you throw your weapon down and surrender during the battle then that is cowardice and a court-martial offence.

[Qis]

We don't know when Alistair is killed at the Landsmeet they just take him.

GW are free to chose, Anders is not a GW in DA2 because he doesn't work for the Gw anymore.
You can be tainted all you want but if you don't work for the Organization you are not a GW.

That is writing issues blame the writers not Riordan or Duncan since not even Duncan reveal the US to Alistair in 6th f**** months of time while Riordan don't create more GW,that is called plot holes for the dark ritual nonsense.

 

But Grey Warden still respect Anders and didn't just execute him on sight, an because of that Hawke sibling could be "saved". Anders also a deserter by definition, but that doesn't mean all Grey Warden should execute him isn't it?

 

And the only reason why Anders can live freely in the city of Templars is because the fact that he's a Grey Warden. Should he's just an apostate then he's being lobotomized before everyone know him

 

I can agree about the plot holes and bad writing...everyone who know about killing the Archdemon don't ****** tell the main character until to that point...Duncan can even tell that just before Battle of Ostagar, atleast a hint, "should I and the Wardens perished here, failed, know that only both of you can kill the Archdemon"....but instaed he say "leave it to us, don't be a hero"

[sniper_arrow]

And the only reason why Anders can live freely in the city of Templars is because the fact that he's a Grey Warden. Should he's just an apostate then he's being lobotomized before everyone know him

 

In Act 1, everyone protected Anders in Lowtown and Darktown since he was giving free healing sessions. In act 2, it was hinted that Varric was protecting him:

 

Varric: If you've got something to say, just spit it out.

Anders: Are you sure you want to encourage me? I might be about to confess my undying love.

Varric: I get that a lot. So what's on your mind?

Anders: I just realized it's been a while since any of the gangs in the Undercity came to my door.

Varric: They're busy people. Places to go, throats to cut. Maybe you've slipped their minds.

Anders: Right. The apostate running the free clinic in the sewers. Easy to forget. You didn't have anything to do with this?

Varric: You must have me confused with someone else! I'm just a businessman and a storyteller.

 

In act 3, the reason why Meredith couldn't even arrest Anders and Merrill was because they were Hawke's friends. Therefore, it has nothing to do with Ander's being a Grey Warden, though you could head canon that.

[Dai Grepher]

Dia,Absolutely.. He would be just as guilty as Loghain but, Alistair leads the charge-unless there's a mod that changes that.

He will lead the charge if he is king, but the premise of this thread is that he is trying to leave the Wardens and Ferelden because he couldn't get his way. I while it's fine that he will fight if he gets his way, the point is that he will desert if he doesn't get what he wants. Now, of course he doesn't desert because of cowardice, but he still deserts. Just like how Loghain didn't desert because he was a coward, but rather to get his way.

If he becomes Queen Andora's prisoner then he could be found guilty of cowardice because he surrender while he still had the means to fight.

I don't think that would be the case. He would surrender because its the law. That wouldn't make him a coward. Besides, he would have nothing to lose at that point if he fought, so cowardice wouldn't even be part of the equation.

Here's the way that works. If your unit is overwhelm and surrenders that is acceptable however, if you throw your weapon down and surrender during the battle then that is cowardice and a court-martial offence.

I don't think Alistair was a coward. He deserted because he took what he thought was a principled stand.

But Grey Warden still respect Anders and didn't just execute him on sight,

Why would they try to execute him on sight? They would just ban him and be done with him. Like Fiona. They aren't going to risk their lives killing a runaway Warden. The way they see it, he'll end up in the Deep Roads one day anyway.

Anders also a deserter by definition, but that doesn't mean all Grey Warden should execute him isn't it?

Anders isn't a deserter. He fought the Darkspawn. He left the Wardens after the Darkspawn were dealt with. That isn't the same as desertion. There was no battle to fight after that, and in fairness, the Warden-Commander had other plans as well. So it isn't like Anders should be expected to remain in Amaranthine.

The Wardens have no reason to try to kill Anders. Trying would only get one or more of them killed and would be a waste of a life.

And the only reason why Anders can live freely in the city of Templars is because the fact that he's a Grey Warden. Should he's just an apostate then he's being lobotomized before everyone know him

The templars left him alone out of respect for his service, either after the Blight or his medical work, or both.

[Qis]

Anders isn't a deserter. He fought the Darkspawn. He left the Wardens after the Darkspawn were dealt with. That isn't the same as desertion. There was no battle to fight after that, and in fairness, the Warden-Commander had other plans as well. So it isn't like Anders should be expected to remain in Amaranthine.

The Wardens have no reason to try to kill Anders. Trying would only get one or more of them killed and would be a waste of a life.

 

 

Anders is a deserter, he runaway from the order while there is only 1 year after The Blight...he don't want to fight Darkspawn anymore and hate it. What is the first reaction when he meet Hawke and Co? He thought Hawke are mercenaries hunting for him on behalf of Grey Wardens

 

Remember that Grey Wardens hold secrets where everyone cannot know? That's the reason Jory killed by Duncan...there are a lot of reasons for Grey Warden order hunting and kill Anders...but they didn't because OF A DAMN MAGE TERRORIST PLOT in the end...

[Tidus]

Dai, I know for a fact Alistair would be court marshal for cowardice-he still had a means to fight.  A Grey does not show fealty to king or country. In The Calling the Greys was willing to kill King Maric if there was a need to keep a secrete. .

[Secret Rare]

No trolling just common sense but,that's a rarity on any forum especially gaming forums since most gamers feel their way is the only way

 

 

This totally fit the description of most of your posts.

 

 

Alistair doesn't desert except in the minds that doesn't understand one thing about desertion.. 

Deserting:abandon (a person, cause, or organization) in a way considered disloyal or treacherous

Alistair fit perfectly with the description.

 

Loghain deserted the battlefield at Ostagar while King Alistair lead the Denerim charge.

 

 

Which was in fact his only intelligent choice in DAO which made sense since he saved half of the army from a certain defeat.

So you are accusing Loghin here because he saved thousands of lifes ....ok.....

[Tidus]

Rare,Loghain choice as a soldier was to follow orders not desert the battlefield.He set up the whole thing up from start to finish.

 

However,he doesn't get the finish he wanted..He was executed with extreme prejudice.  

[Dai Grepher]

Anders is a deserter, he runaway from the order while there is only 1 year after The Blight...he don't want to fight Darkspawn anymore and hate it. What is the first reaction when he meet Hawke and Co? He thought Hawke are mercenaries hunting for him on behalf of Grey Wardens

Walking away from the order isn't really desertion. It's more of a change of affiliation. My Hero King walked away from the order as well. So did Nathaniel.

Remember that Grey Wardens hold secrets where everyone cannot know? That's the reason Jory killed by Duncan...

Well, Duncan's reason was that Ser Jory drew his blade. But you're clearly wrong. Wardens leave the order all the time. No one hunts down Alistair except Teagan. No one hunts down Nathaniel except Delilah. Anders is just paranoid, or he did something else that angered the Wardens, like stealing their maps.

there are a lot of reasons for Grey Warden order hunting and kill Anders...but they didn't because OF A DAMN MAGE TERRORIST PLOT in the end...

Dai, I know for a fact Alistair would be court marshal for cowardice-he still had a means to fight.

They can try him for anything they want. Fact remains that he didn't desert out of cowardice. And he was executed because he was perceived as a threat to the crown and the country's stability. If he forsakes all claim to the throne then he is allowed to leave.

A Grey does not show fealty to king or country. In The Calling the Greys was willing to kill King Maric if there was a need to keep a secrete.

And are they going to slay every templar that comes after them for bloodmagic? Or are they just going to avoid the confrontation and keep it a secret from the Chantry?

[Illegitimus]

German Soldier,Me thinks you skipped some cut scenes or mayhaps dozing.. Alistair is a heir to the throne by blood just like Cailan.

 

 

Actually he isn't.  Alistair is a unacknowledged royal bastard.  Under any formal system of inheritance his blood relationship to King Marric is worth diddley and squat.   There are actually going to be multiple members of the nobility who have a better legal claim to heirship than Alistair would.  The problem is there would in fact be multiple members of nobility with about the same claim to heirship and down that path lies Game of Thrones.  But fortunately for Ferelden, they have "Landsmeets" which gives them an alternate system than inheritance to choose a monarch.  

[Akiza]

Anders is a deserter, he runaway from the order while there is only 1 year after The Blight...

Anders of DAA is not a deserter first he resolved the conflict with the darkspawn then he decided to abandon the order since his services were no longer required.

Alistair is the only deserter here and you are trying to make excuses because it was your LI in your world state,well in mine i chopped his head because it is what he deserved for the desertion.

[Qis]

Those who say Anders is not a deserter...alright let me make an example...a US Marine who being stationed in Afghanistan, he fought Taliban/AlQaida...and then he left and going to Russia hiding...he said "my service is no longer needed, Taliban/AlQaida is not a threat to USA anymore..."

[Dai Grepher]

Anders is not a member of any country's military, and the Wardens have no borders or nationality. Anders is the equivalent of a mercenary for hire. He did his job, and now he's moved on to something else. That's not desertion.

And what about Oghren if he goes home to be a family man? Or Velanna if she runs off to find her sister? Or Nathaniel for leaving the Wardens entirely? How about the Hero King who returns to court to rule Ferelden along side his wife, Anora? Are all these people deserters?

Alistair left before the Blight was over. He left Denerim to be attacked by the Archdemon and the Darkspawn.

[ThomasBlaine]

I think Alistair is definitely out of line at the Landsmeet, and the Grey Warden discretion policy demands that he die if he tries to desert the wardens. Actually having him executed would make some sense for ultra-zealous characters who don't like him in the first place, but should be too extreme for anyone who hasn't quite gotten to that point of embracing the warden credo. And/or isn't a sociopath. Or a doormat.

 

Pushing to have him banished instead is a much more realistic reaction, I agree. Trying to make him king is too, I suppose, although he'd be horrible at it.