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[Donquijote and 59 others]

 He also doesn't know about the US.  If he did, he might appreciate that recruiting Loghain might actually give him the vengeance he wants.

I doubt it would have make any difference,if he  had  known about the US nothing would have changed since he would have saw the Ultimate sacrifice as this great honor that Loghain did not deserve,you are not dealing with a person but with an idiot don't forget it.

 

I'm always wondered about that Guard in the entrance of the Tower of Ishal that said to me "the Tower of Ishal is off-limits. Loghain's men are securing the tunnels under the tower"; and then, during the battle, the Tower was overrun by darkspawn that got into the tower by using said "secured" tunnels. Pretty suspicious, indeed...

That's Bioware mistake in writing...Loghain apparently never discovered that there were low chambers in the tower after all he does not possess the ability to control darkspawn..

 

Literally everything I've heard about the Dragon Age universe outside of Origins is just awful between all the retcons and the fact that none of your choices matter because everything has to fit the new plots.

The standard Bioware approach is applied in DAI:

Everyone is made to look clueless and incompetent (templars,mages,wardens,the crown of Ferelden and the rulers of Orlais) aside from your inner circle of friends so that the player's ego is pampered.

[Zero]

That's Bioware mistake in writing...Loghain apparently never discovered that there were low chambers in the tower after all he does not possess the ability to control darkspawn..

 

He cannot control darkspawn, but he could collapse those tunnels so the darkspawn could not use them to storm the tower. No self-respecting commander fights in a battlefield with the backdoor opened, unless that was his plan all along.

[obbie31]

 

Alistair and the warden were perfectly aware that Duncan was killed by the darkspawn and that they lighted the beacon too late since they both were assigned to the task.I may as well say that Alistair was responsible because he missed the timing of the signal and not Loghain.

 

Loghain's death at the landsmeet serve nothing other than satisfy revenge and placate Alistair while his joining is actually more fruitful than his death which is objectively useful only vs the Archdemon.In Ostagar Loghain saved a large part of the army so what he did was reasonable as well as intelligent and it wasn't desertion he changed the plan when it was disrupted by those two warden who lighted the beacon too late.

There are plenty of accusations that can be made to defeat Loghain but Ostagar is not one of those.

 

 

They lighted the beacon too late? How so? I don't recall this. Loghain and his men were clearly ready and waiting for the beacon to go up and could have joined the battle when it did go up. I mean he had plenty of time to simply just stroll away and sneer as he left everyone.

 

No it serves to have a man answer for his crimes. You need Grey Wardens to stop the blight. So what was Loghain's plan? Let all the Wardens die so he can stop the Blight without Wardens. If it were a military operation, Loghain would be court martialed without mercy for going AWOL. You can just as easily execute Loghain for what he did and stop the archdemon without him. You don't need him. And I bet his actions are little consolation for anyone who lost someone at Ostagar. I'm sure anyone who lost someone at Ostagar would want to see him die.

 

I know there are plenty of other shady stuff he has done. That only adds to the reason to not keep him alive.

[ModernAcademic]

Killing him would be the right choice if he were a potential threat to your Warden should they be a male noble with the intention to marry Anora and made choices Alistair disapproves, such as killing Connor or Isolde, letting the mages die at the Circle tower, letting Loghain live, among others. But only if he were a potential threat. 

 

However, the game portrays him as a naive young man, uninterested in politics and anything but prone to violence. So killing him would be a cold, borderline psychotic, calculated decision to ensure no heir to the throne may threaten you and your children in the future. Or Anora's rule, for that matter.

 

Most politicians are apathetic to the point of sociopathy, so I can see an ambitious Cousland making that decision.

[DDJ]

He cannot control darkspawn, but he could collapse those tunnels so the darkspawn could not use them to storm the tower. No self-respecting commander fights in a battlefield with the backdoor opened, unless that was his plan all along.

 

I think you raised an excellent point about the "tunnels" being secured.  It is suspicious in the least.  This may have been a BioWare writer foopah, but the fact remains that we are forced to deal with the canon the writers put forward not picking and choosing what we will and will not accept.  Very well put and thank you for reminding me of this.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

He cannot control darkspawn, but he could collapse those tunnels so the darkspawn could not use them to storm the tower. No self-respecting commander fights in a battlefield with the backdoor opened, unless that was his plan all along.

Is entirely possible that the tunnels were collapsed but the Ogre still managed to open a breach it is entirely within their possibility to remove the rubble and open an hole like he did.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Killing him would be the right choice if he were a potential threat to your Warden should they be a male noble with the intention to marry Anora and made choices Alistair disapproves, such as killing Connor or Isolde, letting the mages die at the Circle tower, letting Loghain live, among others. But only if he were a potential threat. 

 

However, the game portrays him as a naive young man, uninterested in politics and anything but prone to violence. So killing him would be a cold, borderline psychotic, calculated decision to ensure no heir to the throne may threaten you and your children in the future. Or Anora's rule, for that matter.

 

Most politicians are apathetic to the point of sociopathy, so I can see an ambitious Cousland making that decision.

It's not only for him but especially for Eamon in that way you are sure that Eamon is defeated.

[sniper_arrow]

Is entirely possible that the tunnels were collapsed but the Ogre still managed to open a breach it is entirely within their possibility to remove the rubble and open an hole like he did.

 

It depends on how strong the Ogres are in-universe. They can hurl boulders, but we need more than that to see how strong they really are.

 

Then again, I haven't played the games in a long time.

[BoomJesse]

Alister must live  He’s the first companion of GW and his best friend. Plus, he wants to restore the order successfully. I can’t imagine how someone can raise hands to him. 

[Catilina]

Alister must live  He’s the first companion of GW and his best friend. Plus, he wants to restore the order successfully. I can’t imagine how someone can raise hands to him. 

With a ruthless, powerhungry Cousland Prince Consort, who fears for his power? Without thinking!  (I never do that, altough I have drunk Aliistair... with a Cousland Prince Consort, ofc...)

[Zero]

That's the irony of all: the power hungry Male Cousland killing his companion to be king, and he only gets that prince-consort stuff. At least the Female Cousland marrying Alistair becomes the Queen.

[Catilina]

That's the irony of all: the power hungry Male Cousland killing his companion to be king, and he only gets that prince-consort stuff. At least the Female Cousland marrying Alistair becomes the Queen.

English has word for the king's wife? (Maybe the queen consort the official?) The point is: the lady Cousland have not royal power, she only Alistair's wife. Her position is the same as the male Cousland's position.

[Zero]

And that of a Queen is King. Yet, Male Cousland is only Prince-Consort, not even King-Consort (meaning, Anora is a B---)

 

Technicalities aside, is not even worth to kill your companion (and possibly friend) just for a fancy title.

[Catilina]

And that of a Queen is King. Yet, Male Cousland is only Prince-Consort, not even King-Consort (meaning, Anora is a B---)

 

Technicalities aside, is not even worth to kill your companion (and possibly friend) just for a fancy title.

Oh, my ... Those words ...! ok, I do not argue, this is bullshit.

This fancy title can bring valid power. Believe me, that exist the man who think, worth it to kill for it. People for much less things also able become traitor or/and murderer.

[ThomasBlaine]

And that of a Queen is King. Yet, Male Cousland is only Prince-Consort, not even King-Consort (meaning, Anora is a B---)

 

More likely, Alistair is just a wuss who's perfectly comfortable as nothing more than a figurehead. You can bet that Queen Cousland is the one doing all the work. Anora does most of the heavy lifting if she's Queen, and a man who marries the Queen Regnant does not in fact become King by English law even if he has a strong claim to the throne in his own right. Which Cousland technically doesn't, him being a Warden and his titles having been stolen by Howe. His child will get to sit on the throne of Ferelden, that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

And a "Queen" and a Queen-Consort are the exact same thing historically, as opposed to a Queen Regnant which Queen Cousland isn't and which is the actual feminine equivalent of the King, as opposed to the wife of the King which is the Queen-consort even if she's just called the Queen in casual conversation.

[GoldenGail3]

And that of a Queen is King. Yet, Male Cousland is only Prince-Consort, not even King-Consort (meaning, Anora is a B---)

 

Technicalities aside, is not even worth to kill your companion (and possibly friend) just for a fancy title.

In all honesty, Queen Cousland is a only a Queen Consort. Although, I'd like to think she had some power though, in my Worldstate, at least.

[Zero]

The power of Queen Cousland it depends if Alistair was hardened or not (and somehow, this also happens to Queen Anora).

[Catilina]

The power of Queen Cousland it depends if Alistair was hardened or not (and somehow, this also happens to Queen Anora).

Loghain told to M!Cousland: he seems stronger than Cailan (maybe that's not that hard...), then Cousland have a chance to to seize the power (not as King, only in the background, as Loghain – unless he kill Anora). (Also Lady Cousland: Alistair do not like the king's duties, but... he are dutiful.)

[ThomasBlaine]

A Queen- or Prince-Consort can become joint ruler, but that's a huge concession from both the reigning monarch and the Parliament and so presumably the Landsmeet and usually requires an overwhelming amount of leverage. It's not a matter of course by any means and it still doesn't actually grant the title of King.

 

To be honest, I think Alistair as King functions as little more than the mouthpiece and bedwarmer of the respective queens, and have little doubt that either of them can do pretty much whatever they want with the kingdom regardless of legal authority. Personally I wouldn't even dare send him on diplomatic ventures without well-rehearsed scripts I'd written myself, a competent escort who could actually manage him -ahem*Teagan*ahem- and strict orders not to talk to anyone about anything important. And an unmarried Alistair is obviously just Eamon's little puppet.

[Inkvisiittori]

 

Is right or wrong to kill AListair for desertion at the Landsmeet?

The warden who made the choice is a tyrant or an executor of justice?

 

 

Duncan killed ser Jory in cold blood so I guess Wardens think such extreme actions are necessary (especially when there is a Blight). Warden who lets Alistair go is not a very good warden (but maybe a better human being). Warden who kills Alistair for desertion is not automatically a tyrant. Did they kill him just because they could or because they felt he betrayed them and the Order? Did they enjoy it or did they regret it only doing what they felt was necessary? It all comes down to motivations. 

 

I have to say that I think Alistair is very childish, irresponsible and selfish. All game long he keeps talking about how great the Wardens are and how much he admires them, yet when they need him the most he throws a temper tantrum and leaves them if things don't go his way. In his idiocy he would let the Archdemon destroy Ferelden (which would have happened if Warden, Loghain and Riordan had all failed to kill it). I understand he hates Loghain because Duncan, Cailan and everyone else died because of him, but this also shows very well why he was right about "following rather than leading." He would be catastrophic as leader since he doesn't have stomach to do what it takes, to make the hard decisions and put your personal feelings aside for the sake of duty. 

 

Funny enough he is king of Ferelden in my canon worldstate... though the only reason my Warden put him on the throne is because he knew Alistair would be easier to manipulate than Anora. I guess that is the only reason why anyone (Eamon, Anora if they marry) would even want Alistair to become king. There is nothing special about the man himself except his Theirin blood. He wasn't meant to be king and honestly probably never should've become one. In reality (if Alistair rules alone) I suppose it's the Guerrin's who truly benefit from his reign and are the real power behind the throne. 

[German Soldier]

That's the irony of all: the power hungry Male Cousland killing his companion to be king, and he only gets that prince-consort stuff. At least the Female Cousland marrying Alistair becomes the Queen.

Queen consort=Princess consort
King consort=Prince consort

They are the same thing and the same title and this info is from real history not from Dragon Age.
Anora use both words of king consort
and prince consort in DAO in reference to her husband because they are the same thing

In terms of gameplay the male prince is better for the simple reason that has more options than the female noble who in order to reach that ending has to auto-cheat herself with the Dark ritual while the male can even reject it.

In DAO the male noble has 5 options to become prince and more options in WH and DAI while the female only one single option which involve auto cheat and no different outcomes in DAI..in all honesty imho this character is very boring since unlike all the other wardens has less options.

[Zero]

He would be catastrophic as leader since he doesn't have stomach to do what it takes, to make the hard decisions and put your personal feelings aside for the sake of duty. 

 

As the Darkspawn Chronicles proves.

 

But still, the epilogue of Origins says that he even surprised Anora when he showed interest in learning (that epilogue, however, only appears if you talk some sense on him and makes him grow up). I guess a hardened Alistair will become a good king, though (leaving aside Inquisition stupid stuff, that happens even to Anora).

 

If you left Alistair unhardened and he rules alone, I also believe that are the Guerrins the ones who really govern Ferelden. 

[ThomasBlaine]

As the Darkspawn Chronicles proves.

 

But still, the epilogue of Origins says that he even surprised Anora when he showed interest in learning (that epilogue, however, only appears if you talk some sense on him and makes him grow up). I guess a hardened Alistair will become a good king, though (leaving aside Inquisition stupid stuff, that happens even to Anora).

 

If you left Alistair unhardened and he rules alone, I also believe that are the Guerrins the ones who really govern Ferelden. 

 

I always have a small meltdown whenever anything to the effect of "he became a good/just/wise king" turns up in fantasy. What the hell does that mean? That he didn't completely mess it up? That he was popular? What was his foreign policy? Did he raise or lower taxes? How did his reign affect Ferelden's comparatively absymal economy or its relationship with its neighbors? Was he progressive or conservative?

 

Dragon Age gives us a juicy update on how Orazammar actually fares under Bhelen or Harrowmont and leaves it up to us to decide how to feel about it, Anora puts the foot down hard to keep the Alienage from rioting and vaguely begins investing in education, but Alistair apparently becomes a "good king" and sends the Inquisitor a cheeky letter about an attempted assassination and cheese, and that's just that. I take it to mean that he's very popular and isn't doing anything really stupid, and that's about as much credit as I think the statement deserves.

[Inkvisiittori]

I take it to mean that he's very popular and isn't doing anything really stupid, and that's about as much credit as I think the statement deserves.

 

Maybe he had very good advisers. 

[HeliosDisciple]

As the Darkspawn Chronicles proves.

 

Actually, I would say the Darkspawn Chronicles proves Alistair can rise to the challenge. He's left completely alone after the disaster at Ostagar but still calls in all the treaties, unites Ferelden and becomes King. He takes everything right up to the final battle with the Archdemon, and pretty much only fails because there aren't enough Wardens.

 

Which I suppose you could put on him for executing Loghain, but if Alistair duels Loghain, he kills him without Riordan ever bringing it up.