122 réponses à ce sujet

[10K]

Peace is so boring. We will have guns so I want to use them on all alien scum!!

[10K]

Double post

[Commander Rpg]

Kill them all and let God sort them out.

It's...

 

[Mistic]

Willing to bet a lot of money that getting our foot in the Andromedan community's door will involve:

 

• Allying with one or more benevolent underdog races against a more malevolent and supremely powerful foe (Khet?).
  • This will mean that the player gets to fight for a 'righteous cause' (the underdog race might have been annihilated had we not shown up).
     
  • Despite the fact that we'll still be massacring an indigenous species (and potentially stealing their territory), Bioware will allay players' white/colonial guilt by having us save another, more sympathetic species from subjugation or extinction.
     
  • High probability of both the Humans (or Milky Wayers) are Warriors and Diplomats tropes coming into play.
     
  • Of course, the Khet's motivations might be more convoluted than they first appear.
    • Perhaps, like ME1's Geth, they're operating on orders from a higher, mysterious power that will become more prominent in future titles.
       
    • Bioware might even throw in a twist, such as the Khet having an ulterior (maybe even reasonable) motive for their aggression

 

That sounds reasonably likely. If done right, it may assuage some unfortunate implications. If done wrong, it may become a politically correct version of Manifest Destiny (my biggest fear, given how humanity's place in the galaxy was displayed in the previous ME games).

 

If done either way, it will be morbidly funny to point out that we'll become essentially Hernan Cortes... in Space!

[Larry-3]

Will we be the invaders who try to co-exist, or will we go all "British Empire" and annihilate the natives? What would you try to do?

All of us are going to walk in there all bad-a like, and we are NOT going the be like the British Empire.

https://youtu.be/Ct3nb0qauNE

[Commander Rpg]

All of us are going to walk in their all bad-a like, and we are NOT going the be like the British Empire.

Do your own grammar correction, NFTFY (not fixing that for you).

[In Exile]

That sounds reasonably likely. If done right, it may assuage some unfortunate implications. If done wrong, it may become a politically correct version of Manifest Destiny (my biggest fear, given how humanity's place in the galaxy was displayed in the previous ME games).

 

If done either way, it will be morbidly funny to point out that we'll become essentially Hernan Cortes... in Space!

 

Sci-fi, generally, tends to be about human manifest destiny. The space opera kind, anyway. The kind that explores the nature of the human condition can be done (and is done) but would require such a radical reinvention of the setting it wouldn't even be ME anymore. At the very least, you'd have to cut all of the rubber-suit aliens, so no more Asari, Krogan, Turian, etc. and get in some real aliens.

[Larry-3]

Do your own grammar correction, NFTFY (not fixing that for you).

I am just going to see this as a nice response for you letting me know to fix an error I made.

(Paragon +2)

[Halfdan The Menace]

Aye... me want to crack some alien skulls with me axe. It should sound like this "PRAEKK" then "SPLASH", bloody cutscenes... more blood and gore for this game. Close combat is a must, more swords, axes and stuff in addition to explosives.

[Mistic]

Sci-fi, generally, tends to be about human manifest destiny. The space opera kind, anyway. The kind that explores the nature of the human condition can be done (and is done) but would require such a radical reinvention of the setting it wouldn't even be ME anymore. At the very least, you'd have to cut all of the rubber-suit aliens, so no more Asari, Krogan, Turian, etc. and get in some real aliens.

 

I'm not sure about it. My first contact with space opera was Star Wars, where the human-only imperials were akin to Space Nazis and the heroic rebels were far more alien-friendly. If we're talking about a setting with a real Earth, my second contact with space opera was Star Trek, yet another case in which humans working alongside aliens and considering them equals is a positive trait.

 

In fact, the first ME was more nuanced in that regard. One of the common themes was the dilemma between the "humans first" mentality and the "we are part of a bigger society" one, from simple dialogue choices for Shepard to big choices like the Council's fate. It was possible for Shepard to go full manifest destiny or play the Star Trek captain. Which made sense, since the series is an homage to many sci-fi stories.

 

But from ME2 onwards that nuance was lost by the setting itself. Suddenly Space Nazis are not so bad, Reapers are yandere for humanity, our genetics are awesome, Earth is the most important planet in the galaxy, etc. I fear ME:A can follow ME2's path instead of ME's.

[In Exile]

I'm not sure about it. My first contact with space opera was Star Wars, where the human-only imperials were akin to Space Nazis and the heroic rebels were far more alien-friendly. If we're talking about a setting with a real Earth, my second contact with space opera was Star Trek, yet another case in which humans working alongside aliens and considering them equals is a positive trait.

 

In fact, the first ME was more nuanced in that regard. One of the common themes was the dilemma between the "humans first" mentality and the "we are part of a bigger society" one, from simple dialogue choices for Shepard to big choices like the Council's fate. It was possible for Shepard to go full manifest destiny or play the Star Trek captain. Which made sense, since the series is an homage to many sci-fi stories.

 

But from ME2 onwards that nuance was lost by the setting itself. Suddenly Space Nazis are not so bad, Reapers are yandere for humanity, our genetics are awesome, Earth is the most important planet in the galaxy, etc. I fear ME:A can follow ME2's path instead of ME's.

 

Humans are ubermensch in both Star Wars and Star Trek. I can't really comment on the Star Wars EU - I think that's where the actual racism comes from, AFAIK - but in the series itself, apart from Yoda alone, the driving force of the entire galaxy were the humans. Same with Stark Trek - you have your niche races in the Federation (esp. the Vulcans), but it is humanity that is the core (and the Federation is, I'm pretty sure, headquartered on Earth or at least that was my impression from the show). Plus, all those Q-based Stark Trek episodes about the greatness/potential of humanity, etc.

 

ME1 had an interesting theme on galactic civilization, but it was undercut by the idea that humans are so awesome that we get to have a choice about whether we want to be The Federation™ or The Empire™. 

 

By ME2, that part of human manifest destiny - that humans are special for what we can achieve as a culture or race or people - gets shunted to the side for the fact that we are inherently special for having magic DNA. This is a stupid version of humans are special, but not exactly a tone shift. 

 

If anything, ME2 and ME3 actually undercut the degree to which humans were special in ME1, because humans fail in ways they just don't in ME1. Humans have political fallout from the Council decision, instead of the implied ME1 end (especially the rank ***** insanity of an all-human Council). In ME3, humans actually fail at repelling the reapers versus under alien races.

 

While ME2/ME3 are really hard for human potential, they nerf humans compared to ME1. 

[Mistic]

While ME2/ME3 are really hard for human potential, they nerf humans compared to ME1. 

 

The failures in ME2 and ME3 were narratively assigned to weaknesses from those who don't support the manifest destiny or übermensch mentality. In a way, it can remind of the stab-in-the-back myth. Colonies lost? Damn the inactivity of the Alliance and their politicians sucking up to the aliens; thank goodness the Space Nazis will save us all. Earth lost? We told them the Reapers wanted our "magic DNA" (that was funny ), but they didn't get ready on time and instead chose to keep a true Ultraman (or Ultrawoman) like Shepard under arrest. Why can't we save Earth yet? Because those procastinating aliens are too worried about their homeworlds and can't see why the final boss battle will happen on Earth. And of course, the project to stop the Reapers is always sold as a project to save Earth. The mere idea of defeating the Reapers without saving Earth is inconceivable.

 

A bit exaggerated, but I think you get my point. Also, I still think that Shepard had more options in ME1 to voice his or her opinions on the subject. In a game that explored the messiah archetype as one of its central themes, DA:I writers had at least the good sense of including several ways for the Inquisitor to express their views on faith and religion, even if they were forced to serve the Inquisition one way or another.

[Patchwork]

I hope that initially we have permission, maybe Andromeda has a set-up like the MW and all territory is already claimed but they give the refugees a crappy cluster that no one really wants anyway and the Ark tries to make the best of it, after all it's better than becoming a husk. Then there's a regime change and suddenly the aliens from the Milky Way are the scapegoat for everything that's wrong in the galaxy. 

[iM3GTR]

The Milky Wayians should get to Andromeda, and a native ship will come and say "I like your under 50,000 year old technology, but our technology evolved several million years ago. Energize demolition beams." And the whole ARK fleet gets turned to dust.

[Arcian]

What would you try to do?

Abandon this pointless endeavour and head back to the Milky Way.

[Dalinne]

I hope that initially we have permission, maybe Andromeda has a set-up like the MW and all territory is already claimed but they give the refugees a crappy cluster that no one really wants anyway and the Ark tries to make the best of it, after all it's better than becoming a husk. Then there's a regime change and suddenly the aliens from the Milky Way are the scapegoat for everything that's wrong in the galaxy. 

 

I really hope so. For me it's very difficult to identify as an invader just for the sake of it. I rather be a scapegoat who fights back againts the oppresion.

[Mistic]

I hope that initially we have permission, maybe Andromeda has a set-up like the MW and all territory is already claimed but they give the refugees a crappy cluster that no one really wants anyway and the Ark tries to make the best of it, after all it's better than becoming a husk. Then there's a regime change and suddenly the aliens from the Milky Way are the scapegoat for everything that's wrong in the galaxy. 

 

That would be an intriguing perspective and it would be more akin to a "refugee" story. A potentially strong narrative, given the current state of the world.

 

However, I still think that Bioware will take the "colonization is awesome" route and fear that they may overlook some unfortunate implications. Terra nullius is a concept full of complications throughout history. The Hernan Cortes example I mentioned earlier is not gratuitous, and the issue about what "claimed land" means in Andromeda may become tricky. As you mention, it's not as if the Milky Way didn't have rules about it. Even outside Council space, in the chaotic Terminus systems, a faux pas could cause a galactic war.

[BioWareM0d13]

The Milky Wayians should get to Andromeda, and a native ship will come and say "I like your under 50,000 year old technology, but our technology evolved several million years ago. Energize demolition beams." And the whole ARK fleet gets turned to dust.

 

Humans will make great pets.

[Master Race]

Anything less than the option to undergo galaxy-wide genocide will be a disappointment.

[vallore]

A potential leak in the form of a Mass Effect Andromeda survey was released.  It can be found at this link:  http://www.eurogamer...ng-survey-leaks.  With humanity -- or just the Milky Way species -- being the invaders this time around, it raises some interesting questions.  Will we be the invaders who try to co-exist, or will we go all "British Empire" and annihilate the natives?  What would you try to do?

 

 

Personally, considering what little came out, (including the art we’ve seen thus far), I’m  inclined to believe it will be something like this:

 

We reach Andromeda and find an ongoing conflict between a species, (or group of species), of highly advanced Andromedans, (the Remnant?), against another species of (evil) highly advanced Andromedans, (the Keth?); then we are attacked by that evil empire ™ and have to try to join forces with the “good guys,” that may be more or less reluctant about us.

 

No imperialism, no invasion, we just fall into a local conflict and have to get local allies and other means of survival, (sounds familiar?).

[Shechinah]

Humans will make great pets.

 

And if they want to stick us in silly costumes and take pictures to show their friends, we got that down to tradition!
 

[Mistic]

Humans will make great pets.

 

Are you sure? Look at their sorry state, they're probably full of diseases!

 

We reach Andromeda and find an ongoing conflict between a species, (or group of species), of highly advanced Andromedans, (the Remnant?), against another species of (evil) highly advanced Andromedans, (the Keth?); then we are attacked by that evil empire ™ and have to try to join forces with the “good guys,” that may be more or less reluctant about us.

 

No imperialism, no invasion, we just fall into a local conflict and have to get local allies and other means of survival, (sounds familiar?).

 

Oh, yes, it definitely sounds familiar.

[vallore]

 

 

Oh, yes, it definitely sounds familiar.

 

 

Except, (I suspect), we will not be in a position to impose humans, (& co), as the new master race(s) of Andromeda. Andromedans will be the ones with the superior technology and numbers; our saving grace is that we will be armed with that awesome secret weapon; the player’s character.

 

Or, if you prefer a more historically minded reference, we will be akin to the barbarian tribes that the Romans occasionally recruited as auxiliaries against the Persians. Pawns at worse or junior partners at best.

[JoltDealer]

The British Empire? Pfft. Nah, the cool option is to do like some of the Spanish "colonizers". Why waste resources and ammo when you can just get the natives to kill each other? Then you come in telling them that you will bring peace and order.

 

 

*sigh* Good thing that when we study that part of our history now we realize the moral problems with the approach.

 

Well, you see, that's the problem with people in general.  Few remember history in its entirety.  There's an awful lot of people who, if given the opportunity, would take that sort of approach without remembering the consequences of it all.

 

............................. I don't want to play a game like that. Ever.

 

It may not be too bad, but different strokes for different folks.  I think the option should exist.

 

Sci-fi, generally, tends to be about human manifest destiny. The space opera kind, anyway. The kind that explores the nature of the human condition can be done (and is done) but would require such a radical reinvention of the setting it wouldn't even be ME anymore. At the very least, you'd have to cut all of the rubber-suit aliens, so no more Asari, Krogan, Turian, etc. and get in some real aliens.

 

I'm not too sure about the latter half of your post, but you raise some interesting points.  I think it would still be Mass Effect, but the motivation is expanded.  The first game was all about making a name for humanity and stopping a madman.  Andromeda is about blazing a new trail entirely and making a new home for humanity.

 

As for "real aliens," I'm not sure what you mean.  I'm not even sure that you know what you mean.  Regardless, I'm not sure why one precludes the other.  Seems a tad close-minded.

[Scarlett]

Well, you see, that's the problem with people in general.  Few remember history in its entirety.  There's an awful lot of people who, if given the opportunity, would take that sort of approach without remembering the consequences of it all.

 

 

It may not be too bad, but different strokes for different folks.  I think the option should exist.

 

(...)

 

I agree about history and I'm afraid humanity is still not learning from its mistakes. We have an great capacity to forget everything or to not care at all about the past after few years... (I've heard some young people who think WW2 never existed and that it was just a "story to scare people", can you believe that ?).

 

I do understand where you're going with "the option should exist". I never said it shouldn't, I just wrote that if the game is only about killing/enslave everybody because humanity's domination is so cool (like some BSNers suggested it on this thread - not entirely sure they are all serious though), I personally don't want to play it.

What I would like to have is a good balance between peace and war on the main story and to be able to tip the scales in favor of our favourite side - peace and diplomacy in my case... and I hope the Paragon/renegade system will be good so our actions will have really important consequences. I also really want to avoid the evil-bloody-brainless-alien cliché that attack us without any reasons (so we have a clear conscience to strike back... too easy to turn the story that way)