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Let's Talk Invasion


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#101
KaiAdamori

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Loving the history talk and looking at parallels from history that could be incorporated into ME:A.

 

I'm going to dive in and put an idea out there, that, initially (from looking at what alot of folks are posting throughtout the forums) might make some people feel abit uncomfortable at first glance. But bare with me, once I get to the point i'm hoping, you might look at the the possibilities for Andromeda a little differently.

 

So. First off. I suspect that should Andromeda be successful at launch, it will inevitably recieve atleast one sequel and this idea kind of depends on that being the case, to work.

 

For ME:A I would like to see the Citadel races, taking up the mantle of desperate, almost imperialst invaders. This is a group of people for whom it's survival or extinction. To start off with, it's a great chance for BW to give players the chance to play the bad guy. Not the moustache twirling, black hat, genocide is fun, round 'em up on mass and feed 'em to the krogan for giggles bad guy. But the, desperate, Us or them, we have no choice because the cost of failure means DEATH, irrevocable and permenant death type. It would really put alot of players outside of our comfort zones, I like the idea of paragon-esque Ryder, fighting a losing battle as the sole voice of reason amidst the desperate and aggressive panic of the majority of the expedition and despite some success at holding back the worst excesses of the expedition, meeting with only limited success. On the other side you get the renegade, who leads the charge, not brutality for brutalities sake, but relying heavily on the us or them mentality, gunship diplomacy, strong arm tactics and remorseless decisiveness.

 

This scenario would really give people a chance to gauge for themselves in an interactive way, the justifications (no matter how ill concieved) that people use to validate their actions. After all, even the alien races are, in truth, representations of human characteristics and social mores. An honest look at and analysis of such, I think would be really great from that perspective! I would also love to play a PC that didn't necessarily always succeed at every effort they undertake. It would be fresh and unique. It also sets the stage for a "taking account and facing the consequence of our choices" scenario in the sequel.

 

Now if I haven't lost too many readers to outrage at the prospect of being the conqueroring invader.

 

The sequel(s) could then be set years or even a generation or two down the line, placing the PC, either a Ryder or descendant thereof (opens possibilities of spawn making an appearance, possibly as the PC) Would then have to contend with the fall out of the methods employed by the initial expedition and looking at issues of owning responsibility and either working to put right those wrongs, in the case of a paragon, or re-affirming the need for decisive action in the name of survival. The actual morals could be left sufficiently vague on BW's part to allow players to make those kinds of judgements for themselves. Have character interations and world state reflection to express the views of the in-game species. As a baseline from which players could make such choices, all of this with a backdrop of whatever galactic threat that BW is bound to come up with and you start to get something really different and nuanced. That really asks players to think differently while also opening up the chance for some great story telling and alot of action packed fun along the way.

 

Now I very much doubt that BW would employ such an approach, but i just wanted to put this out there, as a counter point to all those posts about, well, using the same old approach as can already be seen, and IMHO, that has alredy been done to death in just about every other game and genre already.

 

Sometimes taking risks can pay off.

 

Surely i'm not the only person that would relish the chance to give a game like that go?

 

EDIT: spelling and such, I really need to read my posts properly before presssing that button!


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#102
Fixers0

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So long as we get to enjoy a good cup of coffee while cleansing the xenos, I'm all in.

stephen-lang-cup-of-coffee-miles-quaritc


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#103
BaaBaaBlacksheep

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If I were them I'll scrap the whole survival extinction human-centric invasion crap. And make a story of adventures of traveling through Andromeda like joining factions, explore different planets, meet new species and the like.
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#104
MisterJB

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Remember Terra Firma from ME1?

They were; and still are, I assume; a political group that advocated pro-human positions and caution and suspicion when dealing with aliens. It was all very moderate and reasonable and even so, the quest was titled "Our own worst enemy".

 

Therefore, I just can't see Bioware writing a story where our position is "You were here first but we are here now. We want what you have and we'll fight you for it."


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#105
KaiAdamori

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If I were them I'll scrap the whole survival extinction human-centric invasion crap. And make a story of adventures of traveling through Andromeda like joining factions, explore different planets, meet new species and the like.

 

Sounds a little too much like skyrim or an MMO for my liking. I want some meat with my veg.

 

Remember Terra Firma from ME1?

They were; and still are, I assume; a political group that advocated pro-human positions and caution and suspicion when dealing with aliens. It was all very moderate and reasonable and even so, the quest was titled "Our own worst enemy".

 

Therefore, I just can't see Bioware writing a story where our position is "You were here first but we are here now. We want what you have and we'll fight you for it."

 

Yeah, you're probably right. Would like to see some developer have the sacks for such a thing though! One can live in hope. :D



#106
BaaBaaBlacksheep

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Sounds a little too much like skyrim or an MMO for my liking. I want some meat with my veg.

I just want a story to be original not the same western SciFi style of survival and human-centric cliché storytelling.
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#107
vallore

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I think you said it earlier, but such a conflict would be a colonizer-versus-colonizer conflict rather than colonizer-versus-natives.

 

Now, I can definitely see the nativist card being played- 'you Milky Wayians are the foreigners'- but past rhetoric (which is totally worth buying into or exploring), that's just a distinction without a difference. All interstellar colonists are colonizing powers- being from another galaxy doesn't make it any more 'alien' to the system being claimed and settled.

 

Though I would certainly like to see dialogue options to buy into that sort of idea- especially paragonism. It's the sort of deference to alien claims of authority and jurisdiction that marked ME1's paragon politics, and it'd be a good intellectual weak point to have for Renegadism to foil against.

 

 

(Personal prediction- Paragonism will include deffering to other species claims and trying to negotiate a solution or find unclaimed areas, while Renegadism will be more assertive and disregard weak claims as posturing.)

 

 

What do you want to bet that a sympathetic alien faction's offer of support and colonizing rights is a ploy to get the Arc entangled in Andromedean disputes by making the MW's a proxy/buffer party?

 

 

Well, I can certainly see something like that work for a secondary plot, as it allows for the player to uphold a moral stance if the player so chooses, (or not), while, at the same time, creating consequences to be explored further into the game.

 

Something like this, perhaps:

 

A Milky Way species find a good planet to settle and starts immediate preparations, perhaps without approval from the rest of the fleet; soon after the fleet receives a distress call. Player’s character is sent to investigate; finds an ongoing conflict between settlers and natives. Player gets 3 choices:

 

Helps the settlers against the natives. (renegade) -> Later story consequence A.

 

Convince the settlers to leave peacefully. (paragon) -> Later story consequence B.

 

Negotiates a treaty between natives and settlers. (optimal paragon) -> Later story consequence C.

 


What do you want to bet that a sympathetic alien faction's offer of support and colonizing rights is a ploy to get the Arc entangled in Andromedean disputes by making the MW's a proxy/buffer party?

 

Oh, I believe it; with the familiar twist that this benevolent race will likely require our aid to solve a few issues of their own before accepting to aid us in turn. :D



#108
Mistic

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Remember Terra Firma from ME1?

They were; and still are, I assume; a political group that advocated pro-human positions and caution and suspicion when dealing with aliens. It was all very moderate and reasonable and even so, the quest was titled "Our own worst enemy".

 
Therefore, I just can't see Bioware writing a story where our position is "You were here first but we are here now. We want what you have and we'll fight you for it."

 

Interestingly, it wasn't the first thing I thought regarding the title of that mission. "Our own worst enemy" also mirrored Saracino's dismissal of "alien-appeasers" and "well-meaning naivete". In a way, it's a perfect title: if you are paragon, it means that people like Terra Firma are our own worst enemy; if you are renegade, it means that the people Terra Firma opposes are our own worst enemy.

 

In the end, it depends on the player's choices... except working for Cerberus. Much worse than Terra Firma and no option to not work for them.

 

Nevertheless, humanity's position is indeed one of extreme greediness in-universe. Both Udina and Anderson (and other characters) take for granted that humanity will get to the Council sooner or later, never explaining how (the Turians needed 200 years and a massive war, and no other species has been admitted in more than 1,000 years, but somehow we are that special). Garrus and Joker mention a joke about that:

 

Garrus Vakarian: How many humans does it to activate a dormant relay?

Joker: 602, 600 to vote on it, one to ask the Asari for technical help and one to ask for a seat on the Council afterwards.


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#109
EpicNewb

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That link makes the game sound even better.

 

Instead of reacting to an invading force we'll proactively hunt the galactic threat this time around.



#110
MisterJB

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Pretty sure we're the galactic threat this time around.



#111
Fade9wayz

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I hope to hell the Ark has crazy good stealth, because when the Keth, or even our eventual allies realize one refugee ship, even if it is of the Citadel dimension with maybe a few war ships (an incredibly optimistic estimate, me thinks), is all there is to MW colonial forces, they'll know exactly what to do to crush any hope of settlement, let alone expansion of MW's species in Andromeda...



#112
teh DRUMPf!!

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 It's simple OP: we need to take their oil. Or eezo. Or whatever they have. That's what invasion is really about.



#113
SKAR

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Nuke 'em 'till they glow then shoot 'em in the dark!

D@mn!!! We got a bad@ss here!!!

#114
Commander Rpg

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 It's simple OP: we need to take their oil. Or eezo. Or whatever they have. That's what invasion is really about.

https://youtu.be/WkBNKa2KXZE?t=1m35s



#115
In Exile

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S'funny, I find that the way some people want humanity to act is quite a lot like the way the batarians act and with the same attitude.


The humans were never stupid enough to withdraw from the council.

#116
straykat

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I don't have anything against the Batarians, except slavery.

 

Screw collectivism. :P



#117
SofaJockey

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What if you turned up and found a race like (in behaviour) the Protheans?

They have no interest in accommodating you anywhere, anyhow.

They subjugate other species (so they are not so nice).

But it's their territory.

 

Is it ok to fight them because their views differ?



#118
Commander Rpg

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Drop bombs first

Ask forgiveness later

 

It's the american way, they can/will easily replicate it in the game.



#119
straykat

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Drop bombs first

Ask forgiveness later

 

It's the american way, they can/will easily replicate it in the game.

 

aliens_nuke_it_from_orbit_zpsa200059d.jp



#120
JoltDealer

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Pretty sure we're the galactic threat this time around.

Oh yeah. We most certainly are, which is why this is such an interesting opportunity for Bioware to tell a really intriguing story. Whether we are benevolent or malevolent in our actions, we are ultimately an outside force looking to occupy worlds that do not belong to us. That complicates things immensely.

#121
Yggdrasil

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The original series was full of planets with life and biospheres but no sentient species.  I can't imagine we'd be taking over planets where sentient aliens already lived, but that doesn't mean neighboring species would be all right with us plopping down our tent stakes.  That keeps it in a morally grey area that depends largely on perspective.  The Milky Way species would see themselves as seeking nothing more than survival on unsettled planets.  The existing species in Andromeda would see themselves as repelling intergalactic interlopers even if they aren't actually invading existing civilizations.  If BioWare is smart, they won't touch the issues of Colonialism or Occupation with a barge pole.



#122
fhs33721

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 It's simple OP: we need to take their oil. Or eezo. Or whatever they have. That's what invasion is really about.

I have heared that there will be a bad end in ME:A. If you mess up the inhabitants of Andromeda will build a wall around their galaxy and the milkyway species will pay for it.


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#123
JoltDealer

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The original series was full of planets with life and biospheres but no sentient species.  I can't imagine we'd be taking over planets where sentient aliens already lived, but that doesn't mean neighboring species would be all right with us plopping down our tent stakes.  That keeps it in a morally grey area that depends largely on perspective.  The Milky Way species would see themselves as seeking nothing more than survival on unsettled planets.  The existing species in Andromeda would see themselves as repelling intergalactic interlopers even if they aren't actually invading existing civilizations.  If BioWare is smart, they won't touch the issues of Colonialism or Occupation with a barge pole.


There may have been many planets, but only a few were habitable. Even beyond that, you need a planet rich in natural resources and water. Considering that the majority of life in the Mass Effect universe developed in the Goldilock Zone and followed the same evolutionary pattern (bipedal, upright, thumbs, etc.), it's natural to assume that life in the Andromeda Galaxy should need similar environments to Milky Way species.

Also why shouldn't they touch it? Colonization and Occupation is a huge part of sci fi settings and history in general. Even Mass Effect's original trilogy touched on it to an extent. Science Fiction has always been an avenue to use allegories for modern issues to comment on them.