Questa discussione ha avuto 10 risposte

[Crisisegrigos]

The Humans and Elves once dwelt in peace and even came together to battle the tyrannical titans and free the dwarven people, who the titans used to use as mindless drones to work and fight for them. This was in a time that predates the fall of ancient Arlathan. Then the Elvhen pantheon was established following the eleves and humans' victory in the war on the titans and the elven mages were elevated to godhood because they were dreamers with the power to shape and change the physical world much like the titans are rumored to have been able to do, hence the dreamers were their only viable matches in the war. Then hubris took the gods and they became the new threat so Solas severed the world from the fade to save the elvhen people but most of the elven people did not know what happened and some assumed that their newly found mortality was the effect of joining forces with the humans and in turn they began to blame them for it while the elves who witnessed what happened, i.e. abellas and other elvhen elite like himself, went into uthenera. In the chaos and confusion and having lost their elven masters/gods/leaders the elvhen slaves looked to new masters and the humans who retained a connection to the fade (now tevinter mages) took in the ones that saw a familiarity in their powers to the ones who previously ruled them. The elves who blamed the the humans (dalish elves), however, took to the forests and became hostile towards the humans and are the ones who recorded much of the known history circulating among the modern elves. Flemeth could be Andraste, whose betrayal was so pronounced that she was an easy choice for mythal to go to when she was 'killed'...and a mad scientist race from the north(kossith) tried to fuse their dna with that of dragons and created the Frankenstein's monster that is the Qunari race and the hornless qunari are revered because they most closely resemble the race that created them.

[thats1evildude]

No, humans arrived on the scene some time after the creation of the Veil; the elves waged war on the Titans on their own. The Evanuris were generals in that war and were elevated to godhood for their victory. Solas created the Veil when the Evanuris murdered one of their own and threatened to destroy the world.

 

Elves started noticing they were no longer immortal a couple hundred years after the arrival of humans, who started out as primitive tribes that eventually came together as the Tevinter Imperium. They were guided by the Old Gods.

 

Eventually, the Tevinter Imperium waged war on the elves due to constant border conflicts. The fall of Arlathan followed. Throughout the centuries, the elven slaves — who only held on to bits of their former culture and history — blamed the loss of their immortality on contact with the shemlen. Because why wouldn't they, right? The humans oppressed them, and their arrival coincided with the decline of the elven civilization, so naturally it was their fault.

 

We're not entirely certain what's up with the qunari except that they have some connection to dragons.

[Gervaise]

The first human tribes probably arrived before the raising of the Veil because it was some 250 years after their recorded arrival that the elves felt the quickening.   Also the story of Andruil in the Temple of Mythal says she tired of hunting mortals.   Since all the elves were believed to be immortal, this would suggest she was hunting the primitive humans, which the Dalish admit their ancestors saw as little better than vermin.    Also there is evidence in old ruins, such as the ones in the Brecilian Forest, that there were some communities where the elves and humans lived together, probably both groups hiding from the Evanuris.   Since the elven ones were likely followers of Fen'Harel, who would have been hunted and vilified after his actions with the Veil, that would explain to some extent the belief among the Dalish that the gods had left them because of their pollution by humans, because it is likely the tradition they inherited was the propaganda put about by the supporters of the Evanuris rather than those of Fen'Harel.    Regardless, the majority of the elves born before the creation of the Veil retreated in Uthenera as the only way to stop themselves from aging and dying, leaving those born after it to look after them.   These elves had never known immortality and seem to have had less connection to the Fade, so could not use Uthenera in the same way.   Strangely enough, only 50 years after the raising of the Veil, humans Dreamers start appearing and being contacted from the Fade by the Old Gods.   Why the Veil had such an adverse affect on the elves and not the humans is still a mystery but likely it is because the elves had their origins in the Fade (originally spirits that became material through crossing over into Thedas like Cole), whereas the humans had originated in the material world and therefore their magic connection had always been at a distance.

 

The war with the Titans was likely around the time that the elves claim they first came into contact with the dwarves.   That would be 1500 years before the arrival of the humans and 1750 years before the Quickening. 

 

The fall of Arlathan in reality occurred during the elven civil war after the death of Mythal and then the raising of the Veil.    It was likely built with the assistance of the Fade, like the other structures we see in the Crossroads, so could not survive being separated from it.

 

What the Tevinter Imperium destroyed in Arlathan Forest was likely just a small remnant of the original city or may be not Arlathan at all.   Is the forest called that because Arlathan was there or because the Tevinter thought that is what they destroyed?     Likely it was just another settlement, like the one in the Arbor Wilds but with a greater number of mortal elves tending those in Uthenera.

[Crisisegrigos]

So wait, wasn't the fall of arlathan simultaneous with the creation of the veil? And when the humans arrived they adopted and started worshiping the elven gods? I ask this because of the human built ruins that had statues of the elven gods built into therm and the arcane warrior's spirit spoke of a great event that caused both the humans and elves alike to cower

[Gervaise]

Yes, mostly likely the real Arlathan did fall because of the creation of the Veil.    It is claimed that the first humans still worshipped the Maker but I have doubts about this.   They probably had an animist religion as persisted for a long time in Ferelden and other more remote places.   However, those who coexisted with elves may have gathered that the dragons ruling the skies were in fact one of the forms of the elven gods, so later when alleged gods started contacting them from the Fade, they depicted them in their Temples as dragons.   It is not clear who the Old Gods were.   They may have been the Forgotten Ones, elven gods confined to the Void part of the Fade and who apparently could still make contact with both elves (who continued to worship them down the years and probably still do in the Tirashan) and humans.   They had likely been prevented from contacting before because of the influence of the Creators (Evanuris).   Once these had been locked away they could make their move for power and influence.    I'm not convinced that the arch demons that arise during the Blights are the mortal forms of the Old Gods; they could equally be the sleeping dragons that hold the split soul of the Evanuris that went into hibernation when they were imprisoned to await their return (a sort of dragon Uthenera).   If the Old Gods were the Forgotten Ones that would account for why they wanted to trick the Magisters into releasing the Blight on the world (the Forgotten Ones were said to be the gods of malice, pestilence and terror so just the sort to create the Blight or wish to spread it) knowing that it would ultimately reach their enemies' dragons asleep underground and infect them too.   This of course is just my theory, no proven by anything in source books or games.

 

It is not clear what the great event was that caused both humans and elves to cower.   It could have been simply Falon'Din hunting down those who would not worship him, which Solas mentions in the Temple of Mythal, or it could have been the destruction that occurred on the raising of the Veil and the subsequent civil war that seems to have occurred.   

[Ashagar]

its only one group of early humans that is stated to practiced proto maker belief and that was the Northern Neromenians who later started worshiping the old gods as their state religion but might have continued maker belief in private as their RL roman counterparts also worshiped both the public state gods and in private worshiped their household gods which wasn't uncommon thing to do in the western ancient world or a number of asian cultures for the matter. The other human tribes including the southern neromenians had different variations from animists and shamanism beliefs.

 

It should also be noted that not all the humans came from the same places the Neromenian tribes came out of the north where they encountered the elves and later the Alamarri tribes migrated out of the distant west and its never stated where some of the other human tribial groups came from so they had different relgious and cultural beliefs.

[Evil Asch]

There's some semantic confusion Arlathan is often loosely used to refer to the Elvehn empire in addition to the actual city of Arlathan. The city almost certainly physically fell after the schism but the empire endured in some form for quite some time after the actual schism.

[Feral'Hen]

The Humans and Elves once dwelt in peace and even came together to battle the tyrannical titans and free the dwarven people, who the titans used to use as mindless drones to work and fight for them. This was in a time that predates the fall of ancient Arlathan. Then the Elvhen pantheon was established following the eleves and humans' victory in the war on the titans and the elven mages were elevated to godhood because they were dreamers with the power to shape and change the physical world much like the titans are rumored to have been able to do, hence the dreamers were their only viable matches in the war. Then hubris took the gods and they became the new threat so Solas severed the world from the fade to save the elvhen people but most of the elven people did not know what happened and some assumed that their newly found mortality was the effect of joining forces with the humans and in turn they began to blame them for it while the elves who witnessed what happened, i.e. abellas and other elvhen elite like himself, went into uthenera. In the chaos and confusion and having lost their elven masters/gods/leaders the elvhen slaves looked to new masters and the humans who retained a connection to the fade (now tevinter mages) took in the ones that saw a familiarity in their powers to the ones who previously ruled them. The elves who blamed the the humans (dalish elves), however, took to the forests and became hostile towards the humans and are the ones who recorded much of the known history circulating among the modern elves. Flemeth could be Andraste, whose betrayal was so pronounced that she was an easy choice for mythal to go to when she was 'killed'...and a mad scientist race from the north(kossith) tried to fuse their dna with that of dragons and created the Frankenstein's monster that is the Qunari race and the hornless qunari are revered because they most closely resemble the race that created them.

That's not how it was. Long story short, extracted from codex entries and in-game dialogues:

The Evanuris fought against the Titans because those gigantic dudes and ther little slaves (dwarfs) loved to reshape the earth with earthquakes, which resulted in lots of destroyed elven cities. After a long war, when all titans were killed, the Evanuris became false gods and began to mine lyrium from titan corpses, doing so with such greed and for so long that they eventually found and awoke something utterly horrific, which is implied to be the source of the Taint. Some time after, Solas rebelled and created the Veil in order to stop the inevitable doom, trapping the Evanuris in the Black City (Eternal City according to elven lore) and dooming the elven empire in the process, as it was mostly built upon magic. Almost immediately after, the first humans arrive to Thedas and the "Old Gods" start whispering them from the Black City. Coincidence? I think not. Solas tells us that Cory's dragon is no old god pet, just a replica (implying that the Old Gods are living horcruxes created by the Evanuris). About 50 years later, elves notice the quickening for the first time, which was a side effect of the Veil and not a disease/curse brought by humans. You know the rest of the story.

Sorry for my bad english.

[Zero]

and a mad scientist race from the north(kossith) tried to fuse their dna with that of dragons and created the Frankenstein's monster that is the Qunari race and the hornless qunari are revered because they most closely resemble the race that created them.

 

Is this were true, how do you explain why ogres (darkspawn created by kossith broodmothers before the first blight) have horns?

[thats1evildude]

There's some semantic confusion Arlathan is often loosely used to refer to the Elvehn empire in addition to the actual city of Arlathan. The city almost certainly physically fell after the schism but the empire endured in some form for quite some time after the actual schism.

It's actually the reverse. The elven empire crumbled and only the major city left was Arlathan.

[Evil Asch]

It's actually the reverse. The elven empire crumbled and only the major city left was Arlathan.

 

Right but judging by what's left of the library in Trespasser the city probably literally fell but clearly remained functional or was restored to some level of function by the inhabitants prior to the actual empire collapsing.