50 réponses à ce sujet

[Qis]

Because of Loghain supporters love to use Riordan as their defense, lets us look on Riordan himself and how he is a fool for reasons

 

i. he got captured and tortured by Loghain, The Warden interference that allow him to escape from Howe's prison

 

ii. he don't know what The Warden and Alistair going through to gather an army to fight against The Blight, he just met The Warden (and maybe Alistair depends on party set up) during that time

 

iii. he just assume The Warden and Alistair know how to defeat The Blight that is die killing Archdemon, he assume Duncan have thought everything while he knew Duncan died at Ostagar

 

iv. he suggest to recruit Loghain while he knew the Landsmeet is all about to elect Ferelden king and political struggle between parties, he should just shut up as a Grey Warden

 

v. if Loghain recruited and Anora order Alistair execution BEFORE Loghain's Joining, Riordan stay silence and not defend his fellow Grey Warden, Loghain is not guaranteed to survive

 

vi. why Riordan favor Loghain over Alistair is a big question, Alistair done everything to help against The Blight while Loghain does nothing but to handle his petty politic

 

vii. Riordan have no plan but want to act hero by jumping on the Archdemon and die horribly, showing that he's short sighted and not a military strategist to rely on. Even if Loghain recruited, Loghain say NOTHING about the plan and strategy. Recruiting Loghain don't bring any benefit

[straykat]

 

v. if Loghain recruited and Anora order Alistair execution BEFORE Loghain's Joining, Riordan stay silence and not defend his fellow Grey Warden, Loghain is not guaranteed to survive

 

I think that's your best point. If he really just wants more Wardens, why didn't he try to prevent this too.. Kind of defeats the whole purpose.

 

Jumping on the dragon wasn't great either, but he did keep the dragon on the ground that way at least.

 

 

Anyways, I'd sooner blame the main plot for not letting us find more Grey Wardens in the beginning. We have to blindly follow Alistair's silly plan (and Flemeth's)... because.... Heroism. We can go all the way to the Frostbacks, but yet... it's somehow still forbidden to go a little further to the Western border and speak to Orlesians. Even sending a message to an Orlesian FARMER would have gotten a message to the Wardens eventually.

[Jack007]

I see here directly a point, yes: he was supprised: that we didn't know it about that: DYING part.

(arch demon

 

Indeed, Duncan should have told us.

I guess, Duncan didn't want to scare us, to much.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

Riordan with the DRAGON FIGHT, was so GREAT.

It was really COOL and awesome.

 

Dam, I love myself also: DRAGONS hehe

 

See my FACEBOOK lol hihihi

[Jack007]

Watch my new topic. I hope these admins don't remove it.

 

Also something to consider about, of this game.

 

Or better said: a GOOD point maded ççç

 

Here I go ....

[Apo]

v. if Loghain recruited and Anora order Alistair execution BEFORE Loghain's Joining, Riordan stay silence and not defend his fellow Grey Warden, Loghain is not guaranteed to survive

 

vi. why Riordan favor Loghain over Alistair is a big question, Alistair done everything to help against The Blight while Loghain does nothing but to handle his petty politic

 

vii. Riordan have no plan but want to act hero by jumping on the Archdemon and die horribly, showing that he's short sighted and not a military strategist to rely on. Even if Loghain recruited, Loghain say NOTHING about the plan and strategy. Recruiting Loghain don't bring any benefit

 

v. You have a good point on this.

 

vi. Loghain is a great general, Alistair is just a skilled warrior.

 

vii. Riordan's blow dealt a great damage to the AD, he disabled it and without it, I don't know how we could be able to bring him down and it served Riordan's plan well, bring the dragon on top of fort drakon to deal with it

[Qis]

I think that's your best point. If he really just wants more Wardens, why didn't he try to prevent this too.. Kind of defeats the whole purpose.

 

 

v. You have a good point on this.

 

 

See, Riordan said "there are only few of us here" as i remember, but when Anora want to execute Alistair he says nothing, shouldn't he prevent that by saying "hey, like i said, there are only few of us here in Ferelden!", there is a big question on why Riordan say nothing to defend his fellow Grey Warden, or at least talking some sense

 

Instead of having 4 Grey Warden, there could end up with 2 only should Loghain failed the Joining and Alistair executed

 

 

vi. Loghain is a great general, Alistair is just a skilled warrior.

 

A skilled warrior who gather an army to fight The Blight vs a great general who do nothing but fighting civil wars caused by his own action?

 

Why would Riordan prefer Loghain over Alistair? Riordan knew Alistair and The Warden done much up to that point, he even admit that, he knew The Warden and Alistair have an army of "nations", he also knew Loghain is so messed up with civil wars and politic, but still prefer Loghain over Alistair?

 

All i can say is Riordan just giving his personal opinion ignorantly don't care about the coming effect by his interference. He should just stay neutral and let the Landsmeet decide Loghain fate. 

[Tidus]

Qis,I fully agree with your assessment..

 

I have often wondered if Riordan is one of Loghain's lackeys playing the roll as a Grey?  We also know he is from the Orlesian Greys and Loghain hates Orlesians  and has a distaste for GWs.. Yet he still lives while Loghain has a bounty and assassins chasing the last two Greys in Ferelden..

 

Here's why.. At Denerim he suggest that the three wardens separate because the AD would detect them.. Really Riordan? Seems in the "Last Flight" wardens attacked the AD in large numbers.

[straykat]

He's no Loghain lackey at the very least. He knows how to create the Joining.

[Marika Haliwell]

Qis,I fully agree with your assessment..

 

I have often wondered if Riordan is one of Loghain's lackeys playing the roll as a Grey?  We also know he is from the Orlesian Greys and Loghain hates Orlesians  and has a distaste for GWs.. Yet he still lives while Loghain has a bounty and assassins chasing the last two Greys in Ferelden..

 

Here's why.. At Denerim he suggest that the three wardens separate because the AD would detect them.. Really Riordan? Seems in the "Last Flight" wardens attacked the AD in large numbers.

You made a point wiht the Last Flight. The GW used the griffons to deal damage to the AD and make it land. With the mighty beasts gone, landing the AD when it shoots magic on land it would have been an impossible mission, so Riordan had to do what he could ; he jumped on ADs back. The other points have a good dose of reason, especially if Ali is going to be executed.

[Tidus]

straykat,While I agree I am sure some others may know to mix the potion as well like Varel.

 

That's was one of my thoughts of Riordan  being a lackey. This thought cross my mind in my, I don't know, my 17th or 18th  game perhaps?

[Dai Grepher]

Because of Loghain supporters love to use Riordan as their defense,

Defense for what? Sparing Loghain? Just because you spare Loghain doesn't mean you support him. Riordan has a point, as the game directly states.
 

lets us look on Riordan himself and how he is a fool for reasons
 
i. he got captured and tortured by Loghain, The Warden interference that allow him to escape from Howe's prison

So what? He was tricked by friendly word and drugged drink. The Warden can also possibly be captured by Ser Cauthrien. Alistair gets captured by her in Darkspawn Chronicles after losing to her in a fight. Both go to Ishal, which is Loghain's trap.
 

ii. he don't know what The Warden and Alistair going through to gather an army to fight against The Blight, he just met The Warden (and maybe Alistair depends on party set up) during that time

So what? He received no word from Ferelden, and then when he went in he was captured. How is he supposed to know about what the Warden and Alistair are doing? Also, why does this matter? Are you trying to bring up examples of why Riordan should not be listened to when he suggests sparing Loghain?
 

iii. he just assume The Warden and Alistair know how to defeat The Blight that is die killing Archdemon, he assume Duncan have thought everything while he knew Duncan died at Ostagar

He didn't know if Duncan told them or not. He merely verified it with them in the secret meeting. Even if he assumed Duncan told them about how to slay an archdemon, why would that be a bad assumption? It was possible that Duncan informed them. It's possible he didn't. Riordan confirmed it either way, which is all that matters.
 

iv. he suggest to recruit Loghain while he knew the Landsmeet is all about to elect Ferelden king and political struggle between parties, he should just shut up as a Grey Warden

He only stepped in because he saw that Loghain was to be executed for his treason. He offered an alternative. Be thankful he left the choice to us. He could have simply conscripted him.
 

v. if Loghain recruited and Anora order Alistair execution BEFORE Loghain's Joining, Riordan stay silence and not defend his fellow Grey Warden, Loghain is not guaranteed to survive

Alistair is no longer a Grey Warden at that point. He betrayed his oath to the Wardens and tried to leave without fighting the Darkspawn. Also, just because Anora orders his execution before Loghain takes the Joining doesn't mean Alistair is executed before Loghain takes the Joining. In any case, I doubt Alistair will be cooperative. So he may as well be dead.
 

vi. why Riordan favor Loghain over Alistair is a big question, Alistair done everything to help against The Blight while Loghain does nothing but to handle his petty politic

Because they need as many experienced Grey Wardens on hand as possible to defeat the Archdemon. This means finding good strong fighters, not just anyone off the street. And Loghain was a dead man at that point anyway. His failure to survive the Joining would have been of no consequence. His survival would mean his participation in fighting the Blight. That is why it was a good decision.

And he wasn't siding with Loghain over Alistair. It's that Alistair was acting like a crybaby.
 

vii. Riordan have no plan but want to act hero by jumping on the Archdemon and die horribly, showing that he's short sighted and not a military strategist to rely on. Even if Loghain recruited, Loghain say NOTHING about the plan and strategy. Recruiting Loghain don't bring any benefit

Well now you are bringing up something that happens AFTER the choice to recruit Loghain, so how would we know any of this beforehand?

Also, Riordan was using the tools available to him. He didn't have a coordinated army to lure the archdemon down certain pathways where they could shoot grappling hooks into it and drag it down. He could only lure it to himself, and then try to wound it enough to ground it. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to do this until it flew too high up for him to survive the the fall, and all he could get from it was one wing. It was enough to allow one from our party to destroy it however.

Of course recruiting Loghain benefited us. Our Hero is alive, Alistair is alive, no OGB, no powered up Flemeth/Mythal, and the Archdemon is dead.

[Tidus]

Dai,While you made good points there is one important thing you overlooked.. How could you trust a man that wants you dead?  Sure that sorrowful look is meaningless in the grand scheme and if you loose the Landsmeet he orders your warden and Alistair's execution and in his glee he dooms Ferelden..

 

If you lose the duel he disobeys the rules of the  duel and kills you.

[Qis]

Defense for what? Sparing Loghain? Just because you spare Loghain doesn't mean you support him. Riordan has a point, as the game directly states.

 

Actually Riordan don't have a point, Loghain is defeated man and a fail, not only fail to unite Ferelden, fail to defend his status and failed fighting to defend his honor, only waiting to be executed. Why want to recruit a failed man?

 

 

So what? He was tricked by friendly word and drugged drink. The Warden can also possibly be captured by Ser Cauthrien. Alistair gets captured by her in Darkspawn Chronicles after losing to her in a fight. Both go to Ishal, which is Loghain's trap.

 

Should The Warden is not there to the rescue, he's not there in the Landsmeet. The Warden and Alistair are the leading Grey Warden who took part in everything in Ferelden to fight The Blight, Riordan is just a failed character win which should The Warden don't be there, he's dead, by means he's INSIGNIFICANT to take account on. he's just "saved by plot" character.

 

 

So what? He received no word from Ferelden, and then when he went in he was captured. How is he supposed to know about what the Warden and Alistair are doing? Also, why does this matter? Are you trying to bring up examples of why Riordan should not be listened to when he suggests sparing Loghain?

 

He talks too much for someone who know nothing and do nothing, he's not the one who going all the troubles to gather an army ALONE. Someone who is in his position should not interfere someone who make all the efforts, he forgot his place. Alistair want Loghain being executed, Riordan should just let it be and everyone just focus on fighting The Blight after Loghain being executed. Riordan interference that lead to loosing a potential ally.

 

 

He didn't know if Duncan told them or not. He merely verified it with them in the secret meeting. Even if he assumed Duncan told them about how to slay an archdemon, why would that be a bad assumption? It was possible that Duncan informed them. It's possible he didn't. Riordan confirmed it either way, which is all that matters.

 

His justification to interfere IS he thought everyone know how to defeat The Blight, that's why he suggest to recruit Loghain, he admit that if he know that everyone don't know he wouldn't interfere. That's a stupid excuse to interfere Ferelden matters, should he only need another Grey Warden to kill the Archdemon, he can recruit ANYONE

 

Alistair is no longer a Grey Warden at that point. He betrayed his oath to the Wardens and tried to leave without fighting the Darkspawn. Also, just because Anora orders his execution before Loghain takes the Joining doesn't mean Alistair is executed before Loghain takes the Joining. In any case, I doubt Alistair will be cooperative. So he may as well be dead.

 

 

Once a Grey Warden always a Grey Warden, after all only Grey Warden can kill Archdemon, by letting Alistair executed Ferelden LOST ONE OF THREE chances to kill Archdemon. So by means Riordan is stupid by letting Alistair being executed no matter what the excuse.

 

Like Anders said, he can run away from the order but he can never run away from all those bad dreams

 

 

Because they need as many experienced Grey Wardens on hand as possible to defeat the Archdemon. This means finding good strong fighters, not just anyone off the street. And Loghain was a dead man at that point anyway. His failure to survive the Joining would have been of no consequence. His survival would mean his participation in fighting the Blight. That is why it was a good decision.

 

Loghain just lost duel with The Warden, he only survive because The Warden show mercy, should he fought Alistair and loose, his head being chopped off and end of his story, everyone then just focus on Ferelden succession and fighting The Blight without any drama caused by Riordan.

 

 

And he wasn't siding with Loghain over Alistair. It's that Alistair was acting like a crybaby.

 

He silenced about Alistair execution, but making noise while Loghain to be executed, that's show he have biased mind...he want Alistair to be executed for reasons...and that's also show he's stupid, because Alistair is one of the candidate who can kill Archdemon, while Loghain is yet to survive The Joining

 

 

Well now you are bringing up something that happens AFTER the choice to recruit Loghain, so how would we know any of this beforehand?

Also, Riordan was using the tools available to him. He didn't have a coordinated army to lure the archdemon down certain pathways where they could shoot grappling hooks into it and drag it down. He could only lure it to himself, and then try to wound it enough to ground it. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to do this until it flew too high up for him to survive the the fall, and all he could get from it was one wing. It was enough to allow one from our party to destroy it however.

Of course recruiting Loghain benefited us. Our Hero is alive, Alistair is alive, no OGB, no powered up Flemeth/Mythal, and the Archdemon is dead.

 

I bring that up to show that recruiting Loghain don't give any benefitial result than not recruiting him in the game, it just a plot convenience. Loghain is just a "mystery companion" to be unlocked and his presence in the party don't give anything like what being propagated about him for his recruitment. Loghain didn't plan the assault on Denerim, didn't plan how to handle the Archdemon, didn't plan on how to handle the army of Darkspawn, he didn't make any military strategy at all....he plan NOTHING and just follow the team as party member...he don't even suggest anything. But what the excuse to recruit him? "Loghain is a good strategist, a general and a experienced fighter"....

 

Recruiting Loghain is just the same with like not recruiting him, no difference between having him and  Alistair in the party. The plot afterward are THE VERY SAME.

[Dai Grepher]

Dai,While you made good points there is one important thing you overlooked.. How could you trust a man that wants you dead?  Sure that sorrowful look is meaningless in the grand scheme and if you loose the Landsmeet he orders your warden and Alistair's execution and in his glee he dooms Ferelden..

There's no need to trust. He is stripped of all title and power. He is tainted. He only has one path to travel at that point: The way of the Grey Warden. He wants Ferelden to survive and thrive. He thought only he could make that possible. Now that he is forced to follow your way, you don't have to trust him to keep to it. Or rather, I trusted him to give his life for his country. After everything else is stripped away, what you're left with is a skilled warrior who will die for his country, which is exactly what I needed of him.

As for losing the Landsmeet, we never actually get to see what he had planned. He said to take the Wardens outside to await execution, but who knows, he may have imprisoned them somewhere just in case. He has Ser Cauthrien take them to Fort Drakon when he could have had them both killed right then and there.
 

If you lose the duel he disobeys the rules of the  duel and kills you.

I think that's more of a game mechanic. It's just the game over screen. The game cannot continue from a point of loss. You must win the duel to proceed. Also, the person who fought the duel is likely only knocked out, as is the case in any regular battle if a party member falls. Remember, you can have any party member other than Dog fight the duel with Loghain.
 

Actually Riordan don't have a point, Loghain is defeated man and a fail, not only fail to unite Ferelden, fail to defend his status and failed fighting to defend his honor, only waiting to be executed. Why want to recruit a failed man?

He's a skilled warrior and general of renown. Let him be of use. There are compelling reasons to have as many Grey Wardens on hand as possible to deal with the Archdemon.
 

Should The Warden is not there to the rescue, he's not there in the Landsmeet.

That makes no sense. He was there to help Riordan escape. So your point is moot. So he shouldn't be listened to simply because he needed your help to escape? That makes no sense.
 

The Warden and Alistair are the leading Grey Warden who took part in everything in Ferelden to fight The Blight, Riordan is just a failed character win which should The Warden don't be there, he's dead, by means he's INSIGNIFICANT to take account on. he's just "saved by plot" character.

As are the Warden and Alistair if saved from Fort Drakon by their companions.
 

He talks too much for someone who know nothing and do nothing, he's not the one who going all the troubles to gather an army ALONE. Someone who is in his position should not interfere someone who make all the efforts, he forgot his place.

His place is to defeat the Archdemon. Putting Loghain through the Joining helps in that effort. So he wasn't out of place and he knew exactly what he was talking about.
 

Alistair want Loghain being executed, Riordan should just let it be and everyone just focus on fighting The Blight after Loghain being executed. Riordan interference that lead to loosing a potential ally.

Riordan simply mentioned another option. It's up to you to accept his suggestion or reject it. He could have conscripted Loghain, but he didn't. He left it up to you.
 

His justification to interfere IS he thought everyone know how to defeat The Blight, that's why he suggest to recruit Loghain, he admit that if he know that everyone don't know he wouldn't interfere. That's a stupid excuse to interfere Ferelden matters, should he only need another Grey Warden to kill the Archdemon, he can recruit ANYONE

No he can't. There is no time to seek out other candidates. And he never assumed anyone knew how to kill an archdemon, which is why he only said that there are "compelling reasons" to have as many Grey Wardens on hand to deal with the Archdemon.
 

Once a Grey Warden always a Grey Warden, after all only Grey Warden can kill Archdemon, by letting Alistair executed Ferelden LOST ONE OF THREE chances to kill Archdemon. So by means Riordan is stupid by letting Alistair being executed no matter what the excuse.

Like Anders said, he can run away from the order but he can never run away from all those bad dreams
 
Loghain just lost duel with The Warden, he only survive because The Warden show mercy, should he fought Alistair and loose, his head being chopped off and end of his story, everyone then just focus on Ferelden succession and fighting The Blight without any drama caused by Riordan.

He silenced about Alistair execution, but making noise while Loghain to be executed, that's show he have biased mind...he want Alistair to be executed for reasons...and that's also show he's stupid, because Alistair is one of the candidate who can kill Archdemon, while Loghain is yet to survive The Joining

Ferelden lost Alistair as a chance to kill the Archdemon when he decided to leave, not if he was executed. After all, you can spare his life and he still won't show up to take the final blow.

Anders proves you wrong then. You can run from the order. Alistair ran from the order. He is no longer a Grey Warden. Then he tried to run from the dreams by drinking.

So what is your point, that Loghain is not as good a fighter as Alistair? Irrelevant. He is still a good fighter. As for Riordan, he is not able to mention his idea to Alistair because Alistair is too impulsive and bloodthirsty.

Riordan didn't want Alistair to be executed. Don't be ridiculous. He didn't protest the execution because Alistair had already decided to abandon his duty to end the Blight. If you notice, Riordan doesn't protest Loghain's execution either. He merely tells you that there is another use for Loghain. If you reject his advice, he allows you to execute him. He doesn't conscript him, for example.
 

I bring that up to show that recruiting Loghain don't give any benefitial result than not recruiting him in the game, it just a plot convenience. Loghain is just a "mystery companion" to be unlocked and his presence in the party don't give anything like what being propagated about him for his recruitment. Loghain didn't plan the assault on Denerim, didn't plan how to handle the Archdemon, didn't plan on how to handle the army of Darkspawn, he didn't make any military strategy at all....he plan NOTHING and just follow the team as party member...he don't even suggest anything. But what the excuse to recruit him? "Loghain is a good strategist, a general and a experienced fighter"....
 
Recruiting Loghain is just the same with like not recruiting him, no difference between having him and  Alistair in the party. The plot afterward are THE VERY SAME.

You're wrong. Loghain is actually better than Alistair in battle. Also, if you speak to him in his room at Redcliffe he will go through some strategy. He will tell you that you should allow him to take the final blow, and this is even if you come to him with the information on the Dark Ritual. And of course he doesn't command anything. The Warden becomes the leader of the army.

The plot isn't the same. In one plot Alistair dies. In the other he lives.

[Illegitimus]

I think that's your best point. If he really just wants more Wardens, why didn't he try to prevent this too.. Kind of defeats the whole purpose.

 

Jumping on the dragon wasn't great either, but he did keep the dragon on the ground that way at least.

 

 

Anyways, I'd sooner blame the main plot for not letting us find more Grey Wardens in the beginning. We have to blindly follow Alistair's silly plan (and Flemeth's)... because.... Heroism. We can go all the way to the Frostbacks, but yet... it's somehow still forbidden to go a little further to the Western border and speak to Orlesians. Even sending a message to an Orlesian FARMER would have gotten a message to the Wardens eventually.

 

Aaaand...then what?  Well, they no longer need to send Riordan in to find out what's going on.  So instead they just sit and wait for developments.  

[Qis]

Ferelden lost Alistair as a chance to kill the Archdemon when he decided to leave, not if he was executed. After all, you can spare his life and he still won't show up to take the final blow.

 

No, if he's still alive there is a chance that he change his heart, the outcome could be anything we can speculate. But if he dead then this once chance is lost forever.

 

 

No he can't. There is no time to seek out other candidates. And he never assumed anyone knew how to kill an archdemon, which is why he only said that there are "compelling reasons" to have as many Grey Wardens on hand to deal with the Archdemon.

 

Yet he have time to cause drama instead of let it end there, he just could announce want to make a last Joining to any volunteer. But as we can see if Alistair who duel and execute Loghain in battle, Riordan say nothing, he just there to cause drama when The Warden spare Loghain.

 

 

Riordan didn't want Alistair to be executed. Don't be ridiculous. He didn't protest the execution because Alistair had already decided to abandon his duty to end the Blight. If you notice, Riordan doesn't protest Loghain's execution either. He merely tells you that there is another use for Loghain. If you reject his advice, he allows you to execute him. He doesn't conscript him, for example.

 

He can talk his "sense" in Loghain execution matter, why not use the same "sense" in Alistair execution matter?

 

 

You're wrong. Loghain is actually better than Alistair in battle. Also, if you speak to him in his room at Redcliffe he will go through some strategy. He will tell you that you should allow him to take the final blow, and this is even if you come to him with the information on the Dark Ritual. And of course he doesn't command anything. The Warden becomes the leader of the army.

The plot isn't the same. In one plot Alistair dies. In the other he lives.

 

Alistair could beat Loghain in duel, Loghain is no better than Alistair in battle...furthermore Alistair is a Templar who can deal with magic matter, Loghain is just a warrior.

 

Talking about who kill the Archdemon is not a battle plan, what i am talking about is his position as a general giving battle plan on how the best way to assault Denerim, what troops to deploy, and everything related to military strategy...he give NONE

 

The plot is the same, what changes only "mystery companion" recruited...the rest are all the same to the end of the game.

[Illegitimus]

 

 

He can talk his "sense" in Loghain execution matter, why not use the same "sense" in Alistair execution matter?

 

 

The main reason to intervene with Loghain, that killing him will make the Wardens look bad with Loghain's supporters who are still significant in number, doesn't exist with Alistair.  And if the Warden wants Alistair saved, the Warden can speak up theirself.  The political reason to spare Alistair doesn't exist.  In fact he's a potential problem as long as he continues to draw breath.  

[Tidus]

Riordan  did indeed talk sense but,clams up when Alistair is to be put to the sword and in my mind he just may be one of Loghain's lackeys-there's no real proof either way but,it is what it is and should not be discarded.

 

I kill Loghain for his crimes and especially for selling Elves into slavery to support his civil war..That's a crime against humanity and should be dealt with.

 

By the Landsmeet vote Loghain has one outspoken ally and he is voted down. Then there's Loghain's Hitler like rampage after the vote stands with the wardens and still in his deranged mind he can't see what is happening in Ferelden even though the Southern part of the country has fallen to Darkspawn. 

[Apo]

A skilled warrior who gather an army to fight The Blight vs a great general who do nothing but fighting civil wars caused by his own action?

 

The HoF is the one that gathers the army, Alistair is just a follower who don't know and don't want to lead, none of the choices in the game are his.

[Qis]

The HoF is the one that gathers the army, Alistair is just a follower who don't know and don't want to lead, none of the choices in the game are his.

 

The idea of gathering army come from him, remember Flemeth Hut? Then he leave The Warden to decide where to go. He give suggestions and directions, he be there for The Warden always even if you don't bring him along, he always at the camp cooking....

 

What Loghain done? NOTHING

[Tidus]

Qis, Loghain has done plenty after deserting the King at Ostagar..

 

1. Sent assassins after the GW.

 

2.Started a needless Civil war-the armies was needed to fight darkspawn not each other.

 

3.Allow Howe to murder the Couslands

 

4.Allowed Howe to purge the Alienage

 

5.Allowed Howe to torture Ferelden citizens

 

7.Imprison the Queen of Ferelden

 

8.Sent a mage to poison Arl  Eamond.

 

9.Appointed his self as regent even though Ferelden had a lawful Queen on the throne.

 

So,many would release a criminal and kill one of the two remaining Greys.

 

In my games   Loghain will pay for his crimes with extreme prejudice dealt by a Elf warden.

[Apo]

The idea of gathering army come from him, remember Flemeth Hut? Then he leave The Warden to decide where to go. He give suggestions and directions, he be there for The Warden always even if you don't bring him along, he always at the camp cooking....

 

In my game it was Flemeth that suggests to use the treaties and gather the army, so it depends on the dialogues you choose.

 

The only good thing that can come out from Alistair is being hardened, and this come after the HoF to get his **** together

 

Sorry but, as far as I like Alistair, he's just a whiny guy that can't do things by himself.

 

Also, his cooking is really bad.

[Secret Rare]

Correct me if i'm wrong.

The premise of this thread is that everyone who see Loghain as useful is a Loghain lackey?

[Qis]

In my game it was Flemeth that suggests to use the treaties and gather the army, so it depends on the dialogues you choose.

 

The only good thing that can come out from Alistair is being hardened, and this come after the HoF to get his **** together

 

Sorry but, as far as I like Alistair, he's just a whiny guy that can't do things by himself.

 

Also, his cooking is really bad.

 

So that's the hatred toward Alistair come from...one thing only...he's a whiny person.

 

All evil things done by Loghain being washed away by "i hate Alistair because he's whiny guy and act like a child, so i agree with Riordan and i'll let Anora execute him"

 

if that is the compass being used to make decision regarding life and death, then i rest my case....

[sniper_arrow]

So, this would be the anti-Riordan and anti-Loghain thread then? Got it.