So that's the hatred toward Alistair come from...one thing only...he's a whiny person.
All evil things done by Loghain being washed away by "i hate Alistair because he's whiny guy and act like a child, so i agree with Riordan and i'll let Anora execute him"
if that is the compass being used to make decision regarding life and death, then i rest my case....
Some people chose to kill Leliana and/or Wynne because they were too preachy. Just sayin'.
So, this would be the anti-Riordan and anti-Loghain thread then? Got it.
The original purpose of this thread is to see how viable Riordan is in this case...is he really can be accountable for his suggestion to recruit Loghain? is he have a stable state of mind? Is he just trolling Ferelden politic (maybe as Orlesian spy)?
So that's the hatred toward Alistair come from...one thing only...he's a whiny person.
All evil things done by Loghain being washed away by "i hate Alistair because he's whiny guy and act like a child, so i agree with Riordan and i'll let Anora execute him"
if that is the compass being used to make decision regarding life and death, then i rest my case....
I don't hate Alistair, on the contrary he's one of the best companions in the DA games imo, his humor is surely bad but it makes me laugh.
But that doesn't mean that he's perfect, his whining about Duncan becomes annoying with time.
And as I said before, there was no point to let Alistair get executed, but in term of skill and tactics Loghain is more experienced on the battlefield.
The original purpose of this thread is to see how viable Riordan is in this case...is he really can be accountable for his suggestion to recruit Loghain? is he have a stable state of mind? Is he just trolling Ferelden politic (maybe as Orlesian spy)?
Grey Wardens usually don't even care about politics in general, unless you count the First Warden. And yes, he has a stable mind in stopping the Blights by recruiting a more experienced warrior. You assume that the Grey Wardens are filled with righteous warriors where in reality, they also took in criminals (like Daveth).
As for suggesting Riordan as an Orlesian spy? My, what imagination you have.
Rare,No,just Riordan. It not ok to kill Loghain for his crimes but,he says nothing, nada, ,zilch when they want to run a sword through Alistair.. Sounds like what a lackey would do. I don't think he's no more of a Grey then Leliana or Zevran or even Morrigan.
Loghain is a baddie period and needs taken out. He is a criminal that has proven his self a traitor and usurper.
If Maric wasn't such a fool he would had sent Loghain on his way years ago since Loghain was nothing more then a commoner thug and thief that wanted to kill Prince Maric and would have except his father forbade it..
3.Allow Howe to murder the Couslands
This is completely false actually and was confirmed by Gaider and others writers as well.
The original purpose of this thread is to see how viable Riordan is in this case...is he really can be accountable for his suggestion to recruit Loghain? is he have a stable state of mind?
Of course recruiting Loghain benefited us. Our Hero is alive, Alistair is alive, no OGB, no powered up Flemeth/Mythal, and the Archdemon is dead.
Triple post ok but i had to drink on that even if admittedly i do not care about the deserter who left me..
No, if he's still alive there is a chance that he change his heart, the outcome could be anything we can speculate. But if he dead then this once chance is lost forever.
Yet he have time to cause drama instead of let it end there, he just could announce want to make a last Joining to any volunteer. But as we can see if Alistair who duel and execute Loghain in battle, Riordan say nothing, he just there to cause drama when The Warden spare Loghain.
He can talk his "sense" in Loghain execution matter, why not use the same "sense" in Alistair execution matter?
Alistair could beat Loghain in duel, Loghain is no better than Alistair in battle...furthermore Alistair is a Templar who can deal with magic matter, Loghain is just a warrior.
Talking about who kill the Archdemon is not a battle plan, what i am talking about is his position as a general giving battle plan on how the best way to assault Denerim, what troops to deploy, and everything related to military strategy...he give NONE
The plot is the same, what changes only "mystery companion" recruited...the rest are all the same to the end of the game.
The idea of gathering army come from him, remember Flemeth Hut? Then he leave The Warden to decide where to go. He give suggestions and directions, he be there for The Warden always even if you don't bring him along, he always at the camp cooking....
Thank you, OP, for this thread. I've always found Riordan to be the shifty sort of character...
Okay, first off, when you meet him in the dungeons, my Warden always, ALWAYS asks about reinforcements. Because we've heard neither hide nor hair from the Wardens at large, who are apparently content to let two very junior Wardens wander around Ferelden without a clue. Riordan tells us about Loghain closing the border, the Wardens implicitly wanting to make Ferelden an example of by being destroyed by the Blight, essentially consigning not only hundreds of thousands of people to death but of those, thousands of women, old, young, children, to be raped by the darkspawn into Broodmothers.
Yeah... the Wardens are a nice lot, aren't they? We get confirmation of this throwing of Ferelden to the Archdemon in Warden-Constable Blackwall's letter., seen in the World of Thedas, Vol 1. So Ferelden is to be Thedas' sacrifical lamb, just because Loghain refuses to let the Orlesian Wardens, with four legions of chevaliers in. Clear enough.
What, then, is stopping the other neighbours of Ferelden from coming in to help? The Free Marches are directly north of Ferelden. Kirkwall is closer to Highever than Highever is to Denerim! Where are the Marcher Wardens? Not a single one? Really? It's difficult to imagine Loghain having any objections to a Marcher contigent of Wardens - especially if they didn't insist on crossing the borders with the same army that raped and pillaged Ferelden for a century. Apparently, the First Warden REALLY wants Ferelden to be made an example of - and Riordan is curiously unconcerned with it. Despite claiming to be "born in Highever," his accent and mannerisms are completely Orlesian - and so, perhaps, are his values.
We can't deny that the Orlesians would look upon a Ferelden devastated by the Blight, shorn of any defenses whatsoever, to be a land ripe for colonization. And we know that Celene is certainly always on the lookout for a way to add Ferelden back into the Empire, courtesy of Return to Ostagar.
Second, the whole Loghain recruitment debacle. The one where you find out if you executed him, it's only you, Alistair, and Riordan against the Archdemon? You seriously don't think that your Wardens wouldn't have pumped Riordan for information the minute they were reunited at Arl Eamon's estate? That is, if they didn't get all the gory details much earlier from Avernus, who would have no reason to hold back? The only reason Riordan only spills the beans at the last minute is for some cheap dramatic convention ("Oh, no, who will sacrifice their soul to the Archdemon? IT certainly won't be ME, the NPC that was introduced in the final act, ho ho ho!"). It's there that the plot breaks down to be completely unbelievable. I mean, seriously.
Finally, Riordan's idiocy leads to the entire Ferelden Coalition marching in the wrong direction, massing at Redcliffe rather than Denerim. When confronted about this monumental error (seriously, this isn't a "whoops, my bad" sort of mistake!!) he waffles about and says the darkspawn line is wide, or something like that. You're a Senior Warden, with decades of experience, apparently close to your Calling, and you make THAT kind of rookie mistake?! In the wise words of Cassandra, BULLSHIT.
Yeah, that's my anti-Riordan rant...
Grey Wardens usually don't even care about politics in general, unless you count the First Warden. And yes, he has a stable mind in stopping the Blights by recruiting a more experienced warrior. You assume that the Grey Wardens are filled with righteous warriors where in reality, they also took in criminals (like Daveth).
As for suggesting Riordan as an Orlesian spy? My, what imagination you have.
He might be...and Loghain might be right about that...but it doesn't mean all GW are Orlesian spies. maybe Riordan saw an opportunity to destable Ferelden politic by suggesting to recruit Loghain while he know Alistair contest that and he know Alistair is Cailan brother.
What is the motivation other than seeing Ferelden ruined by it's own politic?
One of the GW must kill Archdemon, even though Riordan offer himself but it is not a guarantee he can kill Archdemon, by means either Loghain, Ferelden greatest general who hate Orlais to the bone, or Alistair, Cailan brother, or The Warden.
So in his mind, all the key person in Ferelden will DIE, even if Ferelden survive The Blight, it surely become a mess with rebellions and so on...Riordan is nearly dead anyway, so it doesn't matter if he success in his mission or not
It is just that Morrigan come into the picture that can make everyone live...
He might be...and Loghain might be right about that...but it doesn't mean all GW are Orlesian spies. maybe Riordan saw an opportunity to destable Ferelden politic by suggesting to recruit Loghain while he know Alistair contest that and he know Alistair is Cailan brother.
What is the motivation other than seeing Ferelden ruined by it's own politic?
...That doesn't make any sense because it won't destabilize Ferelden politics and there's no reason to expect it to. Loghain has no claim to the throne in his own right. Ferelden politics are more likely to be destabilized if you kill Anora's father because she might be out for revenge afterward afterward and she'll be able to garner sympathy for the whole "I was splattered with my dad's blood" thing.
He might be...and Loghain might be right about that...but it doesn't mean all GW are Orlesian spies. maybe Riordan saw an opportunity to destable Ferelden politic by suggesting to recruit Loghain while he know Alistair contest that and he know Alistair is Cailan brother.
What is the motivation other than seeing Ferelden ruined by it's own politic?
One of the GW must kill Archdemon, even though Riordan offer himself but it is not a guarantee he can kill Archdemon, by means either Loghain, Ferelden greatest general who hate Orlais to the bone, or Alistair, Cailan brother, or The Warden.
So in his mind, all the key person in Ferelden will DIE, even if Ferelden survive The Blight, it surely become a mess with rebellions and so on...Riordan is nearly dead anyway, so it doesn't matter if he success in his mission or not
It is just that Morrigan come into the picture that can make everyone live...
First, it's "if he succeeds in his mission or not".
Second, why would Riordan care about politics, especially Fereldan politics, in the first place? All that matters to him is the Blight. Come to think of it, please provide the source of where you came into this conclusion.
Riordan an orlesian spy? That's some nice headcanon.
1. The Grey Wardens of Orlais were turned back at the border, and decided to not waste resources in dealing with Ferelden's civil war. They are saving their troops for the Blight only, when it will eventually move forward to Orlais. Here is a speech by Warden Constable Blackwall on the matter:
Codex entry: A Fine Time to Close a Border http://dragonage.wik..._Close_a_Border
2. Riordan was sent to Ferelden to find out what happened at Ostagar and what has become of Ferelden's wardens. Basically a recon mission.
3. Riordan was born in Highever, he is fereldan at heart so he decides to stay and help.
4. There is a description of him in the toolset, directly from the developers:
"He is a serious man, and a soldier; one who is accustomed to discipline and used to being in a position of leadership. If circumstances were different, he would be the center of this story, not the Warden, and the one leading the charge against the forces of evil. He is a hero, and one who is determined to do his duty no matter the consequences. In order to stop the darkspawn, some things must be sacrificed, even lives—but he would prefer to give his own life before he sacrifices someone else's."
Not for me the old god must die once and for all.
It is just that Morrigan come into the picture that can make everyone live...
The critter is better outside anyone hands so in the end i had to remove it as well because it was the most wise choice.Not for me the old god must die once and for all.
Riordan an orlesian spy? That's some nice headcanon.
1. The Grey Wardens of Orlais were turned back at the border, and decided to not waste resources in dealing with Ferelden's civil war. They are saving their troops for the Blight only, when it will eventually move forward to Orlais. Here is a speech by Warden Constable Blackwall on the matter:
Codex entry: A Fine Time to Close a Border http://dragonage.wik..._Close_a_Border
2. Riordan was sent to Ferelden to find out what happened at Ostagar and what has become of Ferelden's wardens. Basically a recon mission.
3. Riordan was born in Highever, he is fereldan at heart so he decides to stay and help.
4. There is a description of him in the toolset, directly from the developers:
"He is a serious man, and a soldier; one who is accustomed to discipline and used to being in a position of leadership. If circumstances were different, he would be the center of this story, not the Warden, and the one leading the charge against the forces of evil. He is a hero, and one who is determined to do his duty no matter the consequences. In order to stop the darkspawn, some things must be sacrificed, even lives—but he would prefer to give his own life before he sacrifices someone else's."
You just prove that Loghain is wrong then...
You just prove that Loghain is wrong then...
Loghain IS wrong. He admits it himself: "I contributed to this crisis myself" (or something like that, I don't remember the exact quote). But how does any of this make Riordan an orlesian spy? That's pure speculation without any basis.
You are deflecting from your original statement because you have nothing to back it up.
The most thought-out theory to me seems to be that Riordan was unknowingly sent to Howe in order to further reinforce the idea that the wardens in are an Orlesian organization in his and Loghain's minds, keeping them from trusting the pc, with Riordan's superiors hoping that when the Blight had overwhelmed Ferelden and they and the Orlesian army had swept in and claimed the territory, they could use Ferelden as a permanent reminder to all of Thedas of what happens when the Wardens aren't properly supported and maintained.
Riordan himself seems genuinely intent on stopping the Blight and defending Ferelden, and the choices he makes back that up pretty thoroughly. Lots of characters make really stupid decisions because plot, with Duncan as the great god of examples. Actually, the Grey Wardens as an organization seem to be horrible decision-makers, not least because of their ridiculous secrecy policies. But I don't see any indication that Riordan is a spy.
I also think that he pushes to recruit Loghain over keeping Alistair alive because Loghain has been a national hero for over thirty years. Every child in the country knows his name, and he's a lot more popular with the military than he is with the nobility. Remember, having as many wardens as possible might be crucial, but it means jack without the unquestioned backup of enough armies to occupy the darkspawn horde while the wardens corner the Archdemon. Having Loghain on the wardens' side is a great way to finally unify the country, which is absolutely necessary.
Gainsaying the de-facto ruler and sticking up for a childish traitor with the face of the most beloved king in recent memory who wants to overthrow her simply in order to kill her father? Less unifying. Banishment is a good compromise in my mind, even if it goes against the GW credo.
The original purpose of this thread is to see how viable Riordan is in this case...is he really can be accountable for his suggestion to recruit Loghain? is he have a stable state of mind? Is he just trolling Ferelden politic (maybe as Orlesian spy)?
The irony of this thread...
DAO's final act is just a tournament of pass the idiot ball. The amount of stupid that needed to happen so the DR was a tempting choice still makes me facepalm.
And it still failed to be tempting for me since apparently the writers forgot to kill Loghain in a similar stupid fashion like Riordan...DAO's final act is just a tournament of pass the idiot ball. The amount of stupid that needed to happen so the DR was a tempting choice still makes me facepalm.
Wow someone else who realized how much the Morrigan subplot undermined the coherence of the main plot even in DaI.DAO's final act is just a tournament of pass the idiot ball. The amount of stupid that needed to happen so the DR was a tempting choice still makes me facepalm.
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