62 réponses à ce sujet

[Patricia08]

The main problem is that he is not human. He is a spirit of Compassion and even afer his personal quest, if you choose to make him human, he is still mostly in a spirit mindset.

 

Part of the reason the devs didn't want him to be romancible is because they would view it as manipulation. And why shouldn't they? Half of the players would treat his romance like they would any other mortal romance, heedless of Cole's nature.

 

Say you start a romance, and Cole reciprocates. Is that really him showing signs of genuine romantic love, or is he only doing so because, as compassion, he knows you want love and is doing his best to meet that need because it brings you joy, ease and happiness. What is to say what he feels is genuine love and not him simply fulfilling his purpose as a spirit of Compassion? What would happened to you, or more importantly, to him, if he denied you?

 

Cole easily goes into that dub-con territory because of how he is so prone to doing something that is ultimately hazardous to him because he just wants to be compassionate and try to give you the parts you want out of a romance, even though he may be incapable of loving you the same way you may love him.

 

I see your point and yes you could be right what you say here. 

[Sah291]

I think it just didn't make sense with the kind of story arc they were going with him. He has an innocent and child like personality, but, his story is all about him trying to figure out his identity at that point, and he's just not interested or ready yet. By Tresspasser he has finally come to some sort of peace with himself and is ready to explore the world as a human, or stay a spirit.

That's not to say romance with a spirit wouldn't be interesting, since they kind of already did it with Anders/Justice, and that romance brought up a lot of interesting themes (did he ever really love you, or was his purpose/cause always more important, etc.)

Also, it will be interesting if we find out Solas is/was a spirit at some point, as has been speculated.

But in Cole's case, to do it well, they would have needed to spend time on it... there were many ways where even a very young Inquistitor could have taken advantage of that situation, and it could have easily turned out badly if not given proper character development...and there just wasn't enough time for it. By Tresspasser, it's too late. Plus there were other characters to give the romance slot to, and they can't do them all.

[Beerfish]

-  Lead writer blasts the notion of a Cole romance due to creepiness factor therefor Cole romance included in DLC just to Neener, neener, neener the player base.

[Sah291]

-  Lead writer blasts the notion of a Cole romance due to creepiness factor therefor Cole romance included in DLC just to Neener, neener, neener the player base.

It did kind of seem like spirit Cole was favored in Tresspasser and more like the "right" choice.

[thats1evildude]

It did kind of seem like spirit Cole was favored in Trespasser and more like the "right" choice.

 

How so?

[Battlebloodmage]

This kind of talk reminds me of Liara and how some people accuse Liararomancers as pedophile because she's still a child according to the Asari age, but then she's older than any human in existence. Is the concept of age and maturation according to human standard or the stage of aging for each species? If there is an alien in ME that can only live for 20 years and mature at 8 or 10 years which reaches their maturation age for reproduction with their species, I don't think it's a big problem in term of getting into relationship. I don't care for Cole, but it's just an interesting view on inhuman lifespan and maturation of different species.

[Sah291]

How so?

Well, I think spirit Cole had a little bit more dialogue/banter, if I remember correctly, and his banter is also a little bit more interesting and plot relevant, I thought. Which I guess makes sense. Human Cole is starting to think less like a spirit and has his own life to go live.

[nightscrawl]

But in Cole's case, to do it well, they would have needed to spend time on it... there were many ways where even a very young Inquistitor could have taken advantage of that situation, and it could have easily turned out badly if not given proper character development...and there just wasn't enough time for it. By Tresspasser, it's too late. Plus there were other characters to give the romance slot to, and they can't do them all.

 
Considering that there are players who go out of their way and plan to screw every LI possible, I'd say that yeah, omitting Cole was a good plan.

 

-  Lead writer blasts the notion of a Cole romance due to creepiness factor therefor Cole romance included in DLC just to Neener, neener, neener the player base.

It did kind of seem like spirit Cole was favored in Tresspasser and more like the "right" choice.

I don't really see how your comment is a followup to Beerfish's remark. What does Cole having a romance with Maryden have to do with the devs supposedly promoting the spirit choice?


And again, it's been two years. He wasn't ready during the main game, but is ready a couple of years later. I really don't see how that is a bad thing. They're also not going to have the player start a romance in an epilogue DLC as that was not the focus of said DLC. (I actually did see someone suggest this for Vivienne, since Bastien would have been dead quite a while by then.)

 

 

[edit]

I think there is also something to be said about allowing the Inquisitor (the player) to make the spirit/human choice and then allowing the player to romance Cole if the path is human. It seems like giving the player too much agency over an NPC and potential LI.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 04 avril 2016 - 05:51 .

[thats1evildude]

I must have missed that weird. 

 

It occurs during the ending if you don't bring him along to face Corypheus and you made him human. You also have to ask a specific question.

[Sah291]

@nightscrawl,
I agree, it would have needed a different story arc than the one they went with... Like maybe taking place a few years later.

My comment to Beerfish's remark is just that I thought the spirit path was rewarded a bit more, with better dialogue/banter, and Cole himself also seems happier. But that is just my opinion.

[HayleyTaurus]

Personally I'm glad that they didn't make him a LI.  To me the relationship between the Quizzy and Cole was maternal/paternal.  Kind of like guiding a younger sibling/child.  I would say the same of the relationship he had with Solas and Varric.

[Dai Grepher]

I think my female Levellan necromancer would like Cole, actually. But I think she would like his spirit side, not his human side. Still, she encouraged him to be human. So it's complicated.

I think that was the real reason they didn't make Cole romancable. It would have been too complex. Having him be in a relationship in Trespasser was dumb, but doing it that way meant BioWare could write it however they wanted it.

[Dai Grepher]

Personally I'm glad that they didn't make him a LI. To me the relationship between the Quizzy and Cole was maternal/paternal. Kind of like guiding a younger sibling/child. I would say the same of the relationship he had with Solas and Varric.

The same would apply to Sera, then. It all depends how old your Inquisitor is.

[BansheeOwnage]

The same would apply to Sera, then. It all depends how old your Inquisitor is.

I don't think that comment had to do with the Inquisitor's age, just what their relationship is like with Cole. I mean, it's not like Solas' relationship with the Inquisitor is paternal just because he's (a lot) older. Ditto for the other companions/advisors. Though I could also see Cole's as a little sibling type relationship.

[Patricia08]

It occurs during the ending if you don't bring him along to face Corypheus and you made him human. You also have to ask a specific question.

 

Okay thank you 

[Sah291]

I don't think that comment had to do with the Inquisitor's age, just what their relationship is like with Cole. I mean, it's not like Solas' relationship with the Inquisitor is paternal just because he's (a lot) older. Ditto for the other companions/advisors. Though I could also see Cole's as a little sibling type relationship.

Even Solas is aware of the unequal power balance between them, though, and tries to hold back. In his case it has less to do with his age and more to do with the fact he's keeping secrets.... But you can still see the internal moral struggle playing out there in his romance scenes. Either way, he has an unfair advantage over the situation, and eventually breaks up with them.

To be honest, I kind of felt like all of the romances, except Solas, were a bit of an unequal power balance on the Inquisitor's part, because of the whole anchor super power business... But I guess that's not a problem anymore by Trespasser.

Then again Cole can read minds, so he has quite a bit of an unequal advantage over the Inquisitor too, as a spirit/demon. Characters like Sera and Viv felt uneasy around him not for no reason. Probably most people would be intimidated by that, which is why most people are afraid of spirits in the first place. The Inquisitor can be too, so its a matter of perspective.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't think that comment had to do with the Inquisitor's age, just what their relationship is like with Cole. I mean, it's not like Solas' relationship with the Inquisitor is paternal just because he's (a lot) older. Ditto for the other companions/advisors. Though I could also see Cole's as a little sibling type relationship.

No, I think that Cole would be a Josephine type of romance. It wouldn't be sexual. It would be emotional. And for that I think there would have to be a better match with emotional maturity. The Inquisitor would have to be a young girl who is just discovering her romantic side as well. Compared to some experienced, worldly woman, who will pervert Cole or dominate him.

[BansheeOwnage]

To be honest, I kind of felt like all of the romances, except Solas, were a bit of an unequal power balance on the Inquisitor's part, because of the whole anchor super power business... But I guess that's not a problem anymore by Trespasser.

Why would having the Anchor make a difference to a relationship?

 

No, I think that Cole would be a Josephine type of romance. It wouldn't be sexual. It would be emotional. And for that I think there would have to be a better match with emotional maturity. The Inquisitor would have to be a young girl who is just discovering her romantic side as well. Compared to some experienced, worldly woman, who will pervert Cole or dominate him.

Why not a nice not-so-young woman? Why not a not-so-young woman who isn't experienced? Why not a guy? I mean, this is Cole we're talking about.

[nightscrawl]

To be honest, I kind of felt like all of the romances, except Solas, were a bit of an unequal power balance on the Inquisitor's part, because of the whole anchor super power business... But I guess that's not a problem anymore by Trespasser.

 
This is one reason I like the non-mage Trevelyan/Dorian dynamic, because I regard them as peers. You can say that the Trevelyan non-mage wouldn't technically be his peer in Tevinter, even if a noble, because of how they view mages. However, Dorian hasn't really shown that he cares about that sort of thing, and the relationship starts in the South where the opposite is true.

[Addictress]

How old is human Cole? Maryden looks like 29. It always confused me.

[BansheeOwnage]

How old is human Cole? Maryden looks like 29. It always confused me.

The codex said he was barely an adult, and I don't think he physically ages. But you can't get any idea of how developed Cole is based on that, of course.

 

Edit: Sorry, did you mean Human!Cole or the Mage!Cole who died? Either way though, same age.

[Addictress]

The codex said he was barely an adult, and I don't think he physically ages. But you can't get any idea of how developed Cole is based on that, of course.

Edit: Sorry, did you mean Human!Cole or the Mage!Cole who died? Either way though, same age.

Well, the mage Cole.

Yeah, it's weird how Maryden looks way older than him. O.o

[Giantdeathrobot]

Well, the mage Cole.

Yeah, it's weird how Maryden looks way older than him. O.o

 

Well, someone's gotta show him the basics  .

[DomeWing333]

Cole's mental age is an interesting question. It's said that his mind is "child-like," but in what way? What does he lack? I mean, sure, he has difficulty expressing things in coherent sentences, but that's only because his thoughts are too rich for conventional vocabulary. Otherwise, he has a very sophisticated grasp of emotions, including those involved in sex (even bondage sex). He understands more than anybody in the party what it means to be hurt and to hurt someone. He flat out senses when people have negative intentions towards him (which is more than most adults who engage in relationships can say). And he's shown to be fully capable of standing up to an aggressive authority figure to say "no" and leave if he doesn't like how things are going.

 

So, what's the argument against his ability to give consent? That he's a people pleaser? Well so what? Lots of adults are people pleasers who put everything they can towards pleasing their partner in a relationship and they don't have mind-reading abilities to know when that person is just using them. We still say that those people can give consent. So why not him?

 

Moreover, we see no problem sending Cole out into the battlefield to kill people, even though that's a very traumatic thing for him to do. I mean, he even admits to erasing his memories of it afterwards because of how much he dislikes it. If we say he's not in the right frame of mind to be giving sexual consent, then how can he be in the right frame of mind to give consent to be a soldier in our war? 

 

I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm perfectly happy with Cole not being romanceable.

[sniper_arrow]

Well, the mage Cole.

Yeah, it's weird how Maryden looks way older than him. O.o

 

Does age matter? It's the learning experience that counts.