Let's just say, this is where you and I disagree my friend. Both in terms of the viability of CQC as well as your definition of smart. You should grow a quad sometime and try it out though, it's a lot of fun.
Oh and as to your challenge.
Fake Krogan GIFs always amuse me. 
Fake Krogan GIFs always amuse me.
It did what it was meant to do 
Infiltrators. Especially when there are more than 1 in the lobby. See, unlike BSNers, who use cloak mostly for the damage boost, pugfiltrators love using duration cloak for the sole purpose of dumping aggro on teammates. This becomes more acute with scaling. When there are 3 people in the lobby running infiltrators and one guy who is not, the non-cloaker's game would be something like this:
Anything but Juggernaut. Heavy melee all the armour.
Infiltrators. Especially when there are more than 1 in the lobby. See, unlike BSNers, who use cloak mostly for the damage boost, pugfiltrators love using duration cloak for the sole purpose of dumping aggro on teammates. This becomes more acute with scaling. When there are 3 people in the lobby running infiltrators and one guy who is not, the non-cloaker's game would be something like this:
I choose duration purely for the fact that I know I'll be the one who ends up doing everything. All the objectives, all the revives... It's a contingency plan, and a lot more practical. I don't dump aggro on team mates, I usually just destroy everything, rescue people and complete objectives because PUGs are awful creatures.
Also here's my two cents on the sub discussion in this thread:
Techs in biotic lobbies.
Way overblown issue IMO. Tech does not cancel biotic primes, it just takes priority over it. If you have a fast enough detonator, you can actually get 2 rapid chain explosions- first one tech, second one biotic. Say you're playing an Asari Adept and you primed a target with warp. Then a Paladin comes from behind the corner and snap freezes the same target. His snap freeze is now first in line for detonation but your warp primer didn't go anywhere. In this situation, instead of throwing another warp at the target to get IT to take priority, a better option would be to use throw a couple times. The first throw would detonate snap freeze and the second would detonate the old biotic warp primer.
Now kits without a fast detonator, say the Shaman, will not be able to pull off these double explosions but since we've established it's a biotic lobby with just one techie in it, he's going to have 2 more biotic team mates backing him up. If it's a 2/2 biotic-tech split then the biotics and techs should stick together in their combo groups and try to split away from one another. If you're the only biotic in lobby then it's no longer a biotic lobby. Try to get away from tech teammates but expect your biotics to get overriden. Majority rules, deal with it.
With that being said, if you drop into a lobby with 3 biotics in it, don't be a dick, switch to a biotic too. Makes for a much more fun round for everyone involved. But a single tech guy in a biotic lobby isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be IMO.
Also here's my two cents on the sub discussion in this thread:
Techs in biotic lobbies.
Way overblown issue IMO. Tech does not cancel biotic primes, it just takes priority over it. If you have a fast enough detonator, you can actually get 2 rapid chain explosions- first one tech, second one biotic. Say you're playing an Asari Adept and you primed a target with warp. Then a Paladin comes from behind the corner and snap freezes the same target. His snap freeze is now first in line for detonation but your warp primer didn't go anywhere. In this situation, instead of throwing another warp at the target to get IT to take priority, a better option would be to use throw a couple times. The first throw would detonate snap freeze and the second would detonate the old biotic warp primer.
Now kits without a fast detonator, say the Shaman, will not be able to pull off these double explosions but since we've established it's a biotic lobby with just one techie in it, he's going to have 2 more biotic team mates backing him up. If it's a 2/2 biotic-tech split then the biotics and techs should stick together in their combo groups and try to split away from one another. If you're the only biotic in lobby then it's no longer a biotic lobby. Try to get away from tech teammates but expect your biotics to get overriden. Majority rules, deal with it.
With that being said, if you drop into a lobby with 3 biotics in it, don't be a dick, switch to a biotic too. Makes for a much more fun round for everyone involved. But a single tech guy in a biotic lobby isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be IMO.
Also, in your Paladin example, he is actually improving your damage with Snap Freeze debuff. Biotics need to stop whining, they are not special snowflakes.
Also here's my two cents on the sub discussion in this thread:
Techs in biotic lobbies.
Way overblown issue IMO. Tech does not cancel biotic primes, it just takes priority over it. If you have a fast enough detonator, you can actually get 2 rapid chain explosions- first one tech, second one biotic. Say you're playing an Asari Adept and you primed a target with warp. Then a Paladin comes from behind the corner and snap freezes the same target. His snap freeze is now first in line for detonation but your warp primer didn't go anywhere. In this situation, instead of throwing another warp at the target to get IT to take priority, a better option would be to use throw a couple times. The first throw would detonate snap freeze and the second would detonate the old biotic warp primer.
Now kits without a fast detonator, say the Shaman, will not be able to pull off these double explosions but since we've established it's a biotic lobby with just one techie in it, he's going to have 2 more biotic team mates backing him up. If it's a 2/2 biotic-tech split then the biotics and techs should stick together in their combo groups and try to split away from one another. If you're the only biotic in lobby then it's no longer a biotic lobby. Try to get away from tech teammates but expect your biotics to get overriden. Majority rules, deal with it.
With that being said, if you drop into a lobby with 3 biotics in it, don't be a dick, switch to a biotic too. Makes for a much more fun round for everyone involved. But a single tech guy in a biotic lobby isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be IMO.
This is rather interesting and frankly I didn't know this, good thing you pointed it out! But like you said someone has to be on point to be ready to utilise the effects of those double combos. This might work in a friends lobby but in the average pug game this might be rather difficult to achieve due to lack of communication and pugs being pugs. Also I personally don't find a lone techie to be all that big of a deal anyway Tbh.
I assume a biotic would be able to do this with ammo priming as well, like incendiary and cryo ammo?
This is rather interesting and frankly I didn't know this, good thing you pointed it out! But like you said someone has to be on point to be ready to utilise the effects of those double combos. This might work in a friends lobby but in the average pug game this might be rather difficult to achieve due to lack of communication and pugs being pugs. Also I personally don't find a lone techie to be all that big of a deal anyway Tbh.
I assume a biotic would be able to do this with ammo priming as well, like incendiary and cryo ammo?
Another addendum, you can detonate a tech explosion with warp/etc and simultaneously also prime for a biotic explosion. So Snap Freeze -> Warp -> Throw results in two explosions, not one and a dud Throw. (Justicar Bubble, and I think Smash, can both detonate and Prime biotic explosions in the one cast, but these are special cases, not the norm)
Ammo priming sucks, however, it is great if the character/lobby has no other priming options, the damage just pales compared to any 6+6 explosion.
Another addendum, you can detonate a tech explosion with warp/etc and simultaneously also prime for a biotic explosion. So Snap Freeze -> Warp -> Throw results in two explosions, not one and a dud Throw. (Justicar Bubble, and I think Smash, can both detonate and Prime biotic explosions in the one cast, but these are special cases, not the norm)
Ammo priming sucks, however, it is great if the character/lobby has no other priming options, the damage just pales compared to any 6+6 explosion.
Yeah I knew that about warp though and about the justicar, but I hadn't known about a tech power priming over a biotic power while not cancelling it. True ammo priming sucks but it's a free combo anyway if you can prime over a regular biotic explosion. I'm gonna need to test this next time I'm on.
Ammo priming sucks, however, it is great if the character/lobby has no other priming options, the damage just pales compared to any 6+6 explosion.
Arkhne, you're a knowledgeable bloke, even if you blaspheme occasionally, so I have a serious question about the stuff we were messing about over earlier in the thread:
Dark Channel / Seeker Swarm BEs, based on rank 6 in both - are they really 6+6? When I play the Collector I do the fairly standard cast DS-shoot-cast DC-cast SS-shoot-detonate DS (sometimes) with a CSMG or PPR, often loaded with Warp Ammo. I usually stop speccing DS at rank 4, and I'm trying to work out if there's a difference between using Swarms on DS-primed targets and DC-primed ones. The BEs I get never seem particularly big, but you know I don't host and he's one of the buggiest (Ha!) characters there is, so I never really know what's actually going on most of the time. He kills a shedload of stuff though, so that's something 
I choose duration purely for the fact that I know I'll be the one who ends up doing everything. All the objectives, all the revives... It's a contingency plan, and a lot more practical. I don't dump aggro on team mates, I usually just destroy everything, rescue people and complete objectives because PUGs are awful creatures.
Yeah you do. You might not do it intentionally but it doesn't matter, when you cloak for long it dumps aggro on your teammates. It's just an annoying side effect of tactical cloak similar to Volus shield boost locking down weapons or flamer and recon mine obscuring vision. And just like these powers can be big assets when used correctly, duration cloak can either be very useful or an annoyance to deal with depending on how it's used.
Yeah you do. You might not do it intentionally but it doesn't matter, when you cloak for long it dumps aggro on your teammates. It's just an annoying side effect of tactical cloak similar to Volus shield boost locking down weapons or flamer and recon mine obscuring vision. And just like these powers can be big assets when used correctly, duration cloak can either be very useful or an annoyance to deal with depending on how it's used.
True, although in my opinion TC without duration comes a bit short sometimes.
I play my TGI with TC on duration because it's a reegar TGI so I'm really not concerned about damage, I feel like duration can possibly be of better use
to my team.
If you're trying to escape an ennemy that as locked on you like a banshee or a brute, you barely have enough time for him to lose track of you and... yep
banshee's coming right back at you, can be an issue when trying to revive one/several teammates, or for a mission.
Again, I agree with you, one has to be clever about how to use TC depending on many variables.
For instance,if all teammates are down except for me, one other guy and I'm a INF, I'll try my best to read the situation to see if it's okay to use TC at any given time.
If you're not paying attention you can end up cloaking when your teammate found himself in a tight spot and is now trying to escape, making a run for it.
Cloaking under such circumstances is a very sucky thing to do.
Personally, the main reason I choose duration is in the enventuality that you get devices on a tough map (especially in plat), some devices can be ridiculously hard to do, and TC can be a life savior.
I choose duration purely for the fact that I know I'll be the one who ends up doing everything. All the objectives, all the revives... It's a contingency plan, and a lot more practical. I don't dump aggro on team mates, I usually just destroy everything, rescue people and complete objectives because PUGs are awful creatures.
What Shady said but also, the pugs would be way less awful if you don't take duration and don't run cloaked for longer than a split second you need to start shooting/casting. You won't need to do the objectives all by yourself and won't need all these revives. And it won't hamper your desire and ability to destroy everything in any way. Overall, it would make the game easier for you and more enjoyable for other people in the lobby.
... Personally, the main reason I choose duration is in the enventuality that you get devices on a tough map (especially in plat), some devices can be ridiculously hard to do, and TC can be a life savior.
IMHO, it looks like a good reason but actually it might not be. If your teammates cannot handle the aggro while you are doing the devices, duration seldom helps. Just cloaking, running out of LoS or taking hard cover for a second and then going to devices should be enough to drop the aggro to other players to let an infiltrator do it. IMO, taking duration does not mean automatically smooth devices on a tough map like Hydra/Jade/Dagger. You still need some help from the team even with duration.
True, although in my opinion TC without duration comes a bit short sometimes.
I play my TGI with TC on duration because it's a reegar TGI so I'm really not concerned about damage, I feel like duration can possibly be of better use
to my team.
If you're trying to escape an ennemy that as locked on you like a banshee or a brute, you barely have enough time for him to lose track of you and... yep
banshee's coming right back at you, can be an issue when trying to revive one/several teammates, or for a mission.
Again, I agree with you, one has to be clever about how to use TC depending on many variables.
For instance,if all teammates are down except for me, one other guy and I'm a INF, I'll try my best to read the situation to see if it's okay to use TC at any given time.
If you're not paying attention you can end up cloaking when your teammate found himself in a tight spot and is now trying to escape, making a run for it.
Cloaking under such circumstances is a very sucky thing to do.
Personally, the main reason I choose duration is in the enventuality that you get devices on a tough map (especially in plat), some devices can be ridiculously hard to do, and TC can be a life savior.
Highlighted- it's not about whether or not to cloak, it's about how long to cloak. Like a lot of infiltrators, when I play as one I use cloak pretty much whenever it's not on cooldown. Difference is I break cloak with weapons fire a split second after it engages. That way the enemies won't have enough time to re direct aggro because when they try to do so, they get hit with a huge **** you slug from a high powered sniper rifle with TC damage boost and turn their attention back to the infiltrator. My point is, for short bursts, to disable a device or revive a teammate or whatnot, cloak away, the more the merrier. My beef is with infiltrators who cloak and run away, leaving their teammates to clean up their mess.
Also I don't think I ever said duration cloak was bad, I hope you didn't take it as such and if you did, it's not what I meant. It's a power that has an annoying side effect that is beyond the user's control. Like shockwave throwing off teammate's aim or flamer obscuring vision. One can choose to give a **** about that side effect and apply common courtesy when using it or not, pugs often choose not to.
^^ Lots of "WAAH! MUST TAKE MAXIMUM DPS"
Duration cloak is a tool, but like all tools, can be misused, and often is by PUGs.
For instance: A claw hammer. Great tool for construction, but used incorrectly, with just bend nails, not drive them in, leaving an unusable, useless piece of wood. UNLESS you intended to make an evil weapon for hurting people, then the misuse worked.
And as to Collector BEs, I don't know of any reason why his Rank 6 DC + Rank 6 Seeker Swarms would be anything less than 6+6. The real problem is that NEITHER ability boosts detonations, where most every other biotic combo does. Even Justicar bubble debuffs, which boosts the combo (And Reave DoT for those 3 seconds of cooldown and detonation are noticable). Most other non-boosted BE powers also do large damage, which makes them feel stronger than they are.
TL;DR Still 6+6, just feels weaker.
Highlighted- it's not about whether or not to cloak, it's about how long to cloak. Like a lot of infiltrators, when I play as one I use cloak pretty much whenever it's not on cooldown. Difference is I break cloak with weapons fire a split second after it engages. That way the enemies won't have enough time to re direct aggro because when they try to do so, they get hit with a huge **** you slug from a high powered sniper rifle with TC damage boost and turn their attention back to the infiltrator. My point is, for short bursts, to disable a device or revive a teammate or whatnot, cloak away, the more the merrier. My beef is with infiltrators who cloak and run away, leaving their teammates to clean up their mess.
Also I don't think I ever said duration cloak was bad, I hope you didn't take it as such and if you did, it's not what I meant. It's a power that has an annoying side effect that is beyond the user's control. Like shockwave throwing off teammate's aim or flamer obscuring vision. One can choose to give a **** about that side effect and apply common courtesy when using it or not, pugs often choose not to.
Agreed, usually with TGI I'm firing my weapon so much that I'm hardly ever cloaked anyways haha.
Yes courtesy would be nice right ? It is so rare with pug, I try to do it, even try to do at least one good action each match, like letting a guy have a kill
because he's about to melee, or do a biotic boom, or he just really wants that kill...
There's tons of good actions you can do on a match just to be nice , then there's being considerate of tour teammates, that should be mandatory.
Agreed, usually with TGI I'm firing my weapon so much that I'm hardly ever cloaked anyways haha.
Yes courtesy would be nice right ? It is so rare with pug, I try to do it, even try to do at least one good action each match, like letting a guy have a kill
because he's about to melee, or do a biotic boom, or he just really wants that kill...
There's tons of good action you can do on a match just to be nice , then ther's being considerate of tour teammates, that should be mantory.
You should play some Silver PS3 PUGs, they will cure you of that.
Should be, sure, but doesnät happen outside of friend games.
IMHO, it looks like a good reason but actually it might not be. If your teammates cannot handle the aggro while you are doing the devices, duration seldom helps. Just cloaking, running out of LoS or taking hard cover for a second and then going to devices should be enough to drop the aggro to other players to let an infiltrator do it. IMO, taking duration does not mean automatically smooth devices on a tough map like Hydra/Jade/Dagger. You still need some help from the team even with duration.
Duration does not guarantee success on devices on tough maps/tough zones.
But I know I can be of great help for tough devices with this tool.
For me TC on duration is more of a Joker, a card you pull when things go bad and it's also me sacrificing a bit of damage bonus so that I can best serve the team if they need it. Same way chosing damage can also help your team.
If pugs had a good sense of how to behave during devices, considering the map, faction, difficulty, other palyer's kits, or even the mission itself (it's not so rare to realize you're doing all devices by yourself while your team is just having fun)
If that was a reality I wouldn't rely on duration for devices but let's face it, when does that happen with pug ? Hardly ever...
If you're not doing it right then yes , duration can be tough on your teammates, but guess what, that goes for anything.
Like Arkhne said, it's only a tool and I wish most players would realize that.
I keep hearing that this kit, weapon, power, spec or whatever SUCKS, usually with the associated idea that anyone using the thing in question also SUCKS.
If I listenend to all the complaints I've read about specific things , I don't thing I'd be able to use a single kit.
Players like to blame relatively neutral things instead of understanding that there is usually a good, bad or even average way to use those things.
Then, players will blame you for the bad things they experienced when YOU didn't, like that guy who goes to LZ at the beginning of extraction and then insults you for not going to die with him.
Duration is an ace up my sleeve as far as I'm concerned, I'm prepared to try to align with other player's behaviours on a match, or even to reassess my use of a kit/power if I hear something relevant. But my teammates need to do the same, if not, they'll blame me when s*** goes down and I'll laugh at them. No matter how much you try to adapt to other players in your team, if they don't play along you're gonna hit a wall enventually.
I'm highly confident in my own ability to use the cloak with duration, I know this power, in fact, I have my all life.
When I was a kid, wherever I went, people used to not notice my presence AT ALL, I tried so hard to get people's attention but it's like they dindn't even see me...So in a way I've always known what it's like to be invisible.
(That last statement was for the sake of comic relief, hope it worked, fortunately it was pure fiction, thank you for your concern if you've been touched by this heartbreaking story).
You should play some Silver PS3 PUGs, they will cure you of that.
Should be, sure, but doesnät happen outside of friend games.
Rest assured it's also the norm on PC
Duration does not guarantee success on devices on tough maps/tough zones.
But I know I can be of great help for tough devices with this tool.
For me TC on duration is more of a Joker, a card you pull when things go bad and it's also me sacrificing a bit of damage bonus so that I can best serve the team if they need it. Same way chosing damage can also help your team.
If pugs had a good sense of how to behave during devices, considering the map, faction, difficulty, other palyer's kits, or even the mission itself (it's not so rare to realize you're doing all devices by yourself while your team is just having fun)
If that was a reality I wouldn't rely on duration for devices but let's face it, when does that happen with pug ? Hardly ever...
If you're not doing it right then yes , duration can be tough on your teammates, but guess what, that goes for anything.
Like Arkhne said, it's only a tool and I wish most players would realize that.
I keep hearing that this kit, weapon, power, spec or whatever SUCKS, usually with the associated idea that anyone using the thing in question also SUCKS.
If I listenend to all the complaints I've read about specific things , I don't thing I'd be able to use a single kit.
Players like to blame relatively neutral things instead of understanding that there is usually a good, bad or even average way to use those things.
Then, players will blame you for the bad things they experienced when YOU didn't, like this guy who goes to LZ at the beginning of extraction and then insults you for not going to die with him.
Duration is an ace up my sleeve as far as I'm concerned, I'm prepared to try to align with other player's behaviours on a match, or even to reassess my use of a kit/power if I hear something relevant. But my teammates need to do the same, if not, they'll blame me when s*** goes down and I'll laugh at them. No matter how much you try to adapt to other players in your team, if they don't play along you're gonna hit a wall enventually.
I'm highly confident in my own ability to use the cloak with duration, I know this power, in fact, I have my all life.
When I was a kid, wherever I went, people used to not notice my presence AT ALL, I tried so hard to get people's attention but it's like they dindn't even see me...So in a way I've always known what it's like to be invisible.
(That last statement was for the sake of comic relief, hope it worked, fortunately it was pure fiction, thank you for your concern if you've been touched by this heartbreaking story).
Rest assured it's also the norm on PC
I always take Duration, without exception. And other than when I am doing a Device under cloak, the ONLY time it is on for more then the minimum duration of shooting something in the face, is my Shadow (Bonus Power because Electric Slash x2 wrecks Geth), and if I am not IMMEDIATELY hitting the second slash, I shoot my gun right after the first Slash to break cloak.
If you ever come to PS3, we'll take good care of you and keep the icky PUGs away.
The only kit with duration cloak is my Shadow, which I rarely play. All others are specced for max dps. I am rarely cloaked long enough anyway, I tend to break cloak right away. But even without it, the 3 seconds are enough to dump some aggro and with some proper placement is all thats needed to get that device done and also makes sure that your teammates don´t receive all the heat. It´s a win/win in my book.
The only kit with duration cloak is my Shadow, which I rarely play. All others are specced for max dps. I am rarely cloaked long enough anyway, I tend to break cloak right away. But even without it, the 3 seconds are enough to dump some aggro and with some proper placement is all thats needed to get that device done and also makes sure that your teammates don´t receive all the heat. It´s a win/win in my book.
Your team will receive the aggro ANYWAY.
You ONLY choose it for the increase damage.
It's not a wrong choice, but don't try and sugar coat it, it makes no difference to the others. Cloak is Cloak. Hell, Volus GhettoCloak aggro dumps just as well as duration cloak.
It's not a wrong choice, but don't try and sugar coat it, it makes no difference to the others. Cloak is Cloak. Hell, Volus GhettoCloak aggro dumps just as well as duration cloak.
It sure does.
It sure does.
Did you photograph me and my VolSent?!
On a more serious note... is that a... Trollus?
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