252 réponses à ce sujet

[Dalakaar]

Did you photograph me and my VolSent?!

Nope, selfie of my recently posted volusent.

[Dalakaar]

Also yes, Exactly, even spelled correctly. Trollus (Honestly what I saved it as)

[Urizen]

Your team will receive the aggro ANYWAY.

You ONLY choose it for the increase damage.

It's not a wrong choice, but don't try and sugar coat it, it makes no difference to the others. Cloak is Cloak. Hell, Volus GhettoCloak aggro dumps just as well as duration cloak.

 

That might be true on consoles, where enemy reaction is a tad bit slower than on PC. On PC however, enemies tend to target in the blink of an eye and that´s why a damage cloak makes sure your teammates do not receive all the heat for the entire duration of the device. And that´s why I also said that with proper positioning it is all that´s needed. I´ve done plenty of open devices on plat, even with non infils.

[Al Swearengen of Deadwood]

Always damage for me. I can't conceive of giving up that much of a damage bonus so I can do devices or whatever else. That may make me seem selfish, but way too much damage for scrubby ass to pass up.

[Arkhne]

Always damage for me. I can't conceive of giving up that much of a damage bonus so I can do devices or whatever else. That may make me seem selfish, but way too much damage for scrubby ass to pass up.

 

Only one here not BSing and trying to sugar coat their choice of damage over duration. Have a like.

[Al Swearengen of Deadwood]

Why thank you, at least you can vouch that I am an objective freak and I'm not that selfish. Objectives equal credits and I need all I can get

[TheShadyEngineer]

Your team will receive the aggro ANYWAY.

You ONLY choose it for the increase damage.

It's not a wrong choice, but don't try and sugar coat it, it makes no difference to the others. Cloak is Cloak. Hell, Volus GhettoCloak aggro dumps just as well as duration cloak.

Yeah it does, what are you talking about? If you're cloaked for the full 10 second (or however long it is) then whatever it is was targeting you is going to re direct and focus on teammate closest to you. If you cloak for a split second for the damage boost, the enemies will start re directing aggro as soon as you engage cloak but will then get hit with a huge alpha burst damage and snap their attention back to said infiltrator. No aggro dump involved when you cloak for damage.

 

Also can we please cut the **** about how duration cloak is about teamplay and damage cloak is selfish?

 

All my infiltrators except the Shadow are specced for damage cloak and guess what, I NEVER had a moment with a damage cloak infiltrator where I thought "hm, I wish I had duration cloak instead." Damage cloak lasts for 5 seconds (all rough numbers, I'm on mobile so can't confirm with charts), disabling a device takes 10 seconds. Now if we take cloak's aggro dump into account as well, it'll take enemies another 2-3 seconds to target the device disabling cloaker after the duration runs out. That leaves you with what, 2-3 second tops of not being cloaked? Same applies for reviving people, standard 5 seconds is more than enough if you know what you're doing. 

 

If anything duration cloak is worse for teamplay when constantly running the full duration of the cloak because of the aggro dump, and if you aren't constantly using the full duration, then why even use duration cloak? Duration cloak is situational at best while damage cloak is beneficial throughout the round. If you think that's "sugar coating" then this discussion is a lost cause.

[TheN7Penguin]

Your team will receive the aggro ANYWAY.

You ONLY choose it for the increase damage.

It's not a wrong choice, but don't try and sugar coat it, it makes no difference to the others. Cloak is Cloak. Hell, Volus GhettoCloak aggro dumps just as well as duration cloak.

 

Okay. When cloaking, there are three possibilities.

 

1. You're cloaking for the damage boost, in which case there won't be many enemies left to aggro anyone.

 

2. You're cloaking to do an objective, so less aggro on you + more aggro on team mates is beneficial for everyone.

 

3. You're cloaking to run away, so that's again beneficial for everyone. One less person to revive, right?

[Ledgend1221]

The Geth Trooper.

They can't even kill an atlas in a single cast.

[GruntKitterhand]

 

Also can we please cut the **** about how duration cloak is about teamplay and damage cloak is selfish?

 

All my infiltrators except the Shadow are specced for damage cloak

 

Mine too, and Arkhne knows very well it has nothing to do selfishness, it's because that's the way they should all be played. The Shadow is my 'specced for variation' Infiltrator, because it does actually make some sense on her. There was a time I may have supported a build for the Asari Huntress with duration too, because she doesn't get the weapon damage boost, but it's definitely not optimal.

 

The only possible non-L2P rational explanation for taking duration is in case you roll devices on objective waves, and while I'm happy to admit I do find disabling devices to be particularly easy with the Shadow, I can't help but think that if you need a duration cloak to do devices anywhere other then the very obvious difficult ones on Jade, Hydra, Dagger or London, there is still a lot you have to learn. Having any Infiltrator on the team should make devices a piece of cake - duration is overkill.  Sometimes I worry that Arkhne has learned too much, and likes to gimp himself to keep things blasphemous interesting. 

 

I honestly think speccing for the damage version of TC ranks somewhere around 1 on the L2P scale. 

[Al Swearengen of Deadwood]

Unless I'm mistaken, if you use cloak when a s***storm is raining down upon you, it's kind of useless because of the enemy proximity game mechanic. Many think, "I'm cloaked, they won't shoot at me," but if they're close enough, cloak does f*** all. And please correct me if I'm wrong

[Arkhne]

Unless I'm mistaken, if you use cloak when a s***storm is raining down upon you, it's kind of useless because of the enemy proximity game mechanic. Many think, "I'm cloaked, they won't shoot at me," but if they're close enough, cloak does f*** all. And please correct me if I'm wrong

 

You're right, cloak is not an I-Win button.

 

Also, if you are cloaking for the full duration for any reason other than a device, you're doing it wrong, however it is spec'd. Even spec'd for duration, the aggro dump is the fking same. You STILL drop the aggro on everybody else, then you STILL do triple the damage of anybody without the cloak bonus. What part of aggro dump do you nitwits not understand? Cloak is cloak.

 

Stop lying to yourselves. And others. I'm not saying, and never said, taking damage is wrong, it's only you dps freaks saying that everybody else is wrong, I just want you all to stop BSing and admit you only take it for the damage bonus.

[GruntKitterhand]

Cloak is cloak.

 

I just want you all to stop BSing and admit you only take it for the damage bonus.

 

Duration is duration. You do understand that duration means l o n g e r   a g g r o   d u m p , yes?

 

I take the damage bonus because it's a fking damage bonus, ya nitwit, and you've yet to come up with an explanation as to why anyone would reject a free damage bonus in favour of literally nothing of worth if played correctly and significant e x t e n d e d annoyance for your teammates if not. You really aren't making any sense dude.

[Urizen]

There´s a difference between dumping aggro for only 5 secs or 11 secs. Neither is much of a problem up to Gold for your teammates, the latter however will become a problem on plat. You with your duration cloak dump all the aggro for the full duration it takes to disable that device, I dump just enough to get that device finished half. Now I will get reacquired by enemies, enemies that shift their focus off my teammates and back unto me. If I positioned myself correctly, I receive next to no damage from them. And better yet, I take some heat of my teammates, which in return leads to them dying less. That´s what I meant by win/win situation. But let´s take a different situation. I´m not the one doing the device, I´m the one covering the mate thats doing it. I can take down a lot of enemies before they can reach my teammate. Where I need one shot to take down that pesky and dangerous Pyro, you need 2. And utilized correctly, I don´t dump any aggro. Again win/win. If that´s sugarcoating for you Arkhne, then I must truly be a nitwit.

[The_Nightman_Cometh]

Lately...... I have been seeing quite the amount or really, poorly played asari.

 

I have seen lots of hipster valkyries with no tech armor  <-------------- what?.. Last night I was a vanilla human adept playing with 2 other asari..and I think I heard...maybe 3 biotic booms between them???...makes me think...just what the hell were they doing that entire match.....

[Urizen]

playing with each other of course

[7twozero]

Time spent in cloak is time spent not killing enemies

[The_Nightman_Cometh]

The only character I feel justifies using duration cloak...is the shadow...for double shadow strikes.....almost nothing feels better than shadow striking a cerberus trooper in the back of spawn..to then see the rest of the spawn turn that way to try to figure out what the hell happened to that guy...as you are still standing there cloaked and choosing your next victim.

[Abramsrunner]

AIU Reegar, H-melee Puggernaut, TGI Harrier. So i hate 60% of pugs from that alone, but mostly they're so boring to watch/ play with.

[TheN7Penguin]

Somehow, I think people might slightly be exaggerating the amount of aggro people would actually get because of one person cloaking.

 

Come on, even with an 11 second duration, spread across three people... the effect is negligible at best. Seriously. What are they actually going to get? A few more cannibals? Maybe a brute? If you can't handle a few heavy units by yourself, you shouldn't be playing gold or platinum. Taking into account the proximity effect in which enemies can see you too... as I said, negligible.

 

Two or three people playing infiltrators? Maybe I could understand a bit more. But assuming that most PUGs (what the thread is about) generally go for things like the Geth Juggernaut more than anything else, again it would have a negligible effect on the overall outcome of the game with two infiltrators, and practically zero if there's one.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing duration over damage. Both are perfectly viable ways of speccing into tactical cloak. Each evolution would change the way you play to some degree. For example, taking damage would be far more suitable for someone who was not going to complete objectives, and would instead provide covering fire, because more damage = better at taking down enemies, but less effective at objectives. That is a fact. Choosing duration makes you more effective at revives and doing objectives, and slightly less effective at taking down enemies.

Talking about aggro dumping - choosing duration over damage has a negligible effect. Tactical cloak in general has barely any effect on the aggro received by team mates - it has some, but nothing game-altering. If you choose duration, we're talking about 6 seconds more aggro. Six seconds. That's barely any time at all, even in a video game. As I said, negligible. In platinum, with two or three infiltrators... maybe the effect would be greater. But gold with one or two? Nope.

At the end of the day, it's up to a person which one they want to spec into. Both are effective, and both are viable. There's no point in complaining about people not speccing into damage and choosing duration instead, when it's an entirely personal choice.

I, personally, always choose duration. Does it stop me killing enemies effectively? No. Does it stop me from doing gold solos? Nope. Does it stop me being at the top of the leaderboard in 99.999% of games I play? No. And given that I, personally, find duration quite useful - especially when doing objectives - I'm certain that I would do better with duration than I would damage. It works.

[SassaMFG]

I dont mind AIU Reegar, H-melee Puggernaut, TGI Harrier, Mele Krogans, Flamer, Snap Freeze, Slash, Lash, Smash as long as guy can kill something and not die ten times in process, stick with objectives etc...

[Al Swearengen of Deadwood]

I dont mind AIU Reegar, H-melee Puggernaut, TGI Harrier, Mele Krogans, Flamer, Snap Freeze, Slash, Lash, Smash as long as guy can kill something and not die ten times in process, stick with objectives etc...

I agree with the Reegar AIU and TGI Harrier on noobs, like I said earlier in the thread, at least it shows they know those are damage kits. However, in a non-noobs hands, those are the people who 90% of the are not helping with objectives because they only care about scoreboard and are just generally bad teammates. But, that is only my personal experience

[Stanry Roo]

All of them.

[7twozero]

tldr

Doing less damage means you play better? Huh, who knew

[GruntKitterhand]

Talking about aggro dumping - choosing duration over damage has a negligible effect. Tactical cloak in general has barely any effect on the aggro received by team mates - it has some, but nothing game-altering. If you choose duration, we're talking about 6 seconds more aggro. Six seconds. That's barely any time at all, even in a video game. As I said, negligible. In platinum, with two or three infiltrators... maybe the effect would be greater. But gold with one or two? Nope.

 

I agree with some of the things you say, but you have a very interesting definition of negligible - you use the word an awful lot but I do not think it means what you think it means. 

 

Six seconds, huh? And how many times do those pugs cloak per wave? So that's 6 seconds multiplied by a very big number - it might even be more than a thousand times 9/11!

 

Now, as with Arkhne, or any other BSNer, we understand the Cloak mechanics, so I'm not accusing you or him personally of dumping aggro excessively, but you asked about what pugs tend to do that we hate. Duration Cloak Infiltrators are almost always without exception, terrible players. And your definition of negligible is so far removed from my experiences that I can only really laugh at the lack of awareness. Aggro dump on Gold and Plat is real whether there's one or three Infiltrators.  This sliding scale of negligibilty you've created exists only as part of your own justification defence mechanism. You're topping the scoreboard 99.999% of the time? Nothing to brag about -  there's a reason they're called Winfiltrators.  TGI and AIU pugs frequently have duration cloak and the only thing I can do is pity them - TGI Harrier - when three crutches aren't enough, why not go for a fourth?!?

 

Statistically, you're taking an evolution which comes into play positively once every 15 waves or so, while having an objectively negative impact on both you and your teammates most of the rest of the time - especially on escort waves, when they think they're helping by being near the drone. I'm not criticising you or anyone else for preferring it, but you're deluding yourself if you think you're doing it for the good of the team. Killing stuff faster is good for the team.