13 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

1) I think they are called the Creators because they were the creators / progenitors of the Elven race, not the creator of Thedas. In Trespasser, Solas mentions that the Evanuris were the "the first of my people".

 

2) The Evanuris are powerful spirits and more, just like how Sten in the comic 'Those Who Speak' says that the Old Gods are powerful dragon and more and the first Human kings were powerful Humans and more.
 

"The old gods were like unto dragons,as the first human kings were like unto ordinary men"

 

I would like to extend that statement to this:- "The Evanuris were like unto powerful spirits, as the old gods were like unto dragons, and as the first human kings were like unto ordinary men"

 

3) Statement 2 would explain the dual nature of the Evanuris. Spirits react differently to the world and the people they see. For example, a Spirit of Wisdom can become a Pride Demon under the appropriate circumstances. Similarly, those who come before the Evanuris with the purest of heart and intentions witnessed their spiritual nature and those who were malicious witnessed their demonic nature. Its why Mythal and Elgar'nan are what they are.Its why to the Dalish Elves, Falon'Din is the friend of the dead but to Solas, he is an utter douche-bag.

 

4) Solas was once part of the Evanuris, either as an actual deity, the God of Rebellion & the Trickster God before he choose to give that whole thing the middle finger, Either that or he was formerly Mythal's lieutenant or bodyguard or agent or champion and carried out her will. 

 

5) The Mythal that we know right now is but a wisp of her former self. The Evanuris Mythal is all but gone and the reason Mythal is hell-bent on vengeance can be understood when you read the Codex on Wisps:- http://dragonage.wik...dex_entry:_Wisp

 

Some that break through the cracks in the Veil into our world are known as wisps, a sliver of a thought that once was. A wisp is a demon that has lost its power; either it has existed in our world for too long without finding a true host or it has been destroyed—often, so we've found, by other demons. What remains of its mind clings tightly to the one concept that created it—a hatred of all things living.

 

Sounds familiar ? Mythal's wisp is far stronger than a conventional wisp because she was once an Evanuris.

 

6) Statement 5 means that it is possible to actually kill the Evanuris, but it is extremely difficult to do so. You will have to kill the Evanuris first, possibly with a powerful Ancient Elven weapon of some form and then destroy the Wisp.

 

7) Falon'Din and Dirthamen are either brothers or twins or might have even had a relationship that was not unlike that of Anders and Justice. Relevant Codex entry :- http://dragonage.wik...Twins_in_Shadow

 

 

....refer to them as “twin souls” but draw no family connection. The oldest stories never even name them directly, referring to Falon’Din as “Dirthamen’s shadow,” and Dirthamen as “Falon’Din’s reflection.”

 

The little we understand implies their bond was not romantic, beyond even the strongest friendship. The legends of Dirthamen and Falon’Din may have been an allegory for complex elven relationships we lack context to comprehend....

 

So Dirthamen and Falon'Din are very closely related but they are not twins, they are not families. Nevertheless, they are so close that they are shadows and reflections of one another. But how is this similar to Anders and Justice ? Well, we know that the Evanuris were special powerful spirits that took mortal form.

 

The answer lies with Cole. Cole was originally a Spirit of Compassion that took mortal form and he can choose to be more spirit-like or more human-like. With regards to Falon'Din and Dirthamen, it is highly possible that one choose to be more spiritual, the other choose to be more Elven and they bonded like Justice and Anders. That would explain how one could be the other's shadow and reflection, in the same way Justice and Anders were like each other's shadow and reflection.

 

Anders in real world:- http://vignette3.wik...=20110504161457

 

Anders in the Fade:- http://vignette2.wik...=20110325181417

 

8) Dirthamen is punished for some form of crime and that crime has something to do with Ghilan'nain. This can be inferred from this picture and this text.

 

Picture:- http://vignette2.wik...=20150804015218

 

Text:- http://36.media.tumb...tapoxn_1280.jpg

 

It seems that Ghilan'nain and Dirthamen may have been teaching some pre-Veil mundanes powers that could rival the Evanuris. However, for some reason it appears that Dirthamen may have been the one to pay the price for this act.

 

9) So it appears that Ghilan'nain and Dirthamen might have been teaching some pre-Veil mundanes (perhaps both Humans and Elves) powerful magics. The other Evanuris took this as a threat and for some reason, judged Dirthamen as the guilty one and let Elgar'nan deal with him (rather gruesomely). In response, Falon'Din became really pissed off at this and possibly schemed with Ghilan'nain and maybe even Sylvaise to take down Mythal. They managed to murder her but Mythal escaped as a wisp unbeknownst to them. This resulted in a massive civil war amongst the Elves.

 

The civil war was costing lots of lives of the worshipers of the Evanuris (who are slaves due to the Vallaslin). Solas, who previously was Mythal's guard dog wolf / lieutenant / champion / agent before he broke free and started freeing the Elves, saw that this war between Elves and between the Evanuris was going to destroy the world. He planned to convene the Evanuris at some spot to work out their differences before tricking them by forming the Veil or even by connecting bits of Veil that were around and solidifying it, resulting in the banishment of the Evanuris. The sundering of the Fade from the natural world caused the fall of Elvhenan and the quickening of the Elvhen.

 

Thoughts & Comments ?

[Dai Grepher]

I think Dirthamen was punished for something else entirely. The servant was simply one of Dirthamen's. He had nothing to do with him taking dragon form.

Personally, I think Mythal punished Dirthamen thinking he was Falon'Din. It goes back to Solas' story about Mythal allegedly bloodying him in his own temple. I think Dirthamen took his place in secret, took the blow for his brother, and then Falon'Din was able to strike at Mythal later from behind.

Solas' unfinished outline in Skyhold shows a dragon with a sword in its back, and the Dread Wolf finding her like that.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I think Dirthamen was punished for something else entirely. The servant was simply one of Dirthamen's. He had nothing to do with him taking dragon form.

Personally, I think Mythal punished Dirthamen thinking he was Falon'Din. It goes back to Solas' story about Mythal allegedly bloodying him in his own temple. I think Dirthamen took his place in secret, took the blow for his brother, and then Falon'Din was able to strike at Mythal later from behind.

Solas' unfinished outline in Skyhold shows a dragon with a sword in its back, and the Dread Wolf finding her like that.

 

So you think Dirthamen took the fall for Falon'Din in order for Falon'Din to strike down Mythal ? But why ? Any speculations ?

[Dai Grepher]

So you think Dirthamen took the fall for Falon'Din in order for Falon'Din to strike down Mythal ? But why ? Any speculations ?

Hmm, maybe there is something about being bloodied in your own temple. Like Ivan said in Iron Man 2, if you can make god bleed, people will stop believing in him.

Maybe in exchange for sparing his life, she made him take her compulsion. Giving the compulsion to Dirthamen by mistake might have the effect to where he can resist telling Mythal anything about Falon'Din's true plot. Dirthamen was the keeper of secrets. So maybe his own power allowed him to keep secrets even while under Mythal's compulsion. Maybe like how Corypheus planned to bind Calpernia? Then, Mythal would just believe that was Falon'Din. Which would leave the real Falon'Din the chance to strike.

Or maybe its not as complex as that. Maybe bloodying "Falon'Din" weakened him to where he would not be able to kill her, thus she would let her guard down. Maybe the real Falon'Din approached her disguised as Dirthamen. Or maybe their plan was more elaborate. Maybe Falon'Din and Dirthamen can switch places at will. So Dirthamen took the K.O. hit at the last second.

In any case, this is the reason why I think Dirthamen's statue appears in Flemeth's Fade world. Further up the path, a statue of Falon'Din points in her direction (I think). These could be a metaphors. Falon'Din exposes her, Dirthamen tricks her and sits as her main regret. The statue of Dirthamen has a sword in its back and it bleeds constantly. It is reminiscent of Solas' story about how Mythal bloodied Falon'Din in his own temple, only in Flemeth's world it is Dirthamen. So maybe she is displaying a clue to Mythal's past. She struck down Dirthamen by mistake, thinking he was Falon'Din, while the real Falon'Din tricked her. Then Solas' unfinished outline shows a sword in a dragon's back. This might indicate that Falon'Din capitalized on that deception.

I know the history isn't complete, but there really no other reason why Mythal would strike down Dirthamen.

Also part of my theory is that Elgar'nan was involved. Maybe he was facing Mythal and drawing her attention while Falon'Din crept in behind her. This is why she feels betrayed as Flemeth was betrayed (by her husband).

Also, Flemeth had a bard as her true lover. Did Mythal have a true lover as well, who was not her husband Elgar'nan? Was this lover Fen'Harel? If so, is that the real reason Solas won't commit to female Levellan?

As for why Dirthamen took the fall for Falon'Din, probably because that's his bro. Or his other self. Or whatever. Or maybe it was just because all the evanuris wanted Mythal dead, and Falon'Din being in the right vantage was crucial to achieving that.

[coldsteelblue]

Some of my thoughts involving Solas's role in the past revolves around this, allow me to explain what I mean.

 

4) Solas was once part of the Evanuris, either as an actual deity, the God of Rebellion & the Trickster God before he choose to give that whole thing the middle finger, Either that or he was formerly Mythal's lieutenant or bodyguard or agent or champion and carried out her will. 

 

The civil war was costing lots of lives of the worshipers of the Evanuris (who are slaves due to the Vallaslin). Solas, who previously was Mythal's guard dog wolf / lieutenant / champion / agent before he broke free and started freeing the Elves, saw that this war between Elves and between the Evanuris was going to destroy the world. He planned to convene the Evanuris at some spot to work out their differences before tricking them by forming the Veil or even by connecting bits of Veil that were around and solidifying it, resulting in the banishment of the Evanuris. The sundering of the Fade from the natural world caused the fall of Elvhenan and the quickening of the Elvhen.

 

 

 

Also part of my theory is that Elgar'nan was involved. Maybe he was facing Mythal and drawing her attention while Falon'Din crept in behind her. This is why she feels betrayed as Flemeth was betrayed (by her husband).

Also, Flemeth had a bard as her true lover. Did Mythal have a true lover as well, who was not her husband Elgar'nan? Was this lover Fen'Harel? If so, is that the real reason Solas won't commit to female Levellan?

 

Solas was in fact one of the Evanuris, he confirms this is you take him along on Wicked eyes & Wicked hearts, telling you that he remembers & misses courtly intrigue, yet when you ask him as Skyhold where he's seen this before, he slightly disapproves, most likely because you're probing into his past.

 

I view Solas as more like Vivenne for the Elves, a power hungry tyrant, wanting only his rule, once again, he semi-confirms this in Trespasser when The Inquisitor says to him 'we aren't even people to you are we?' His response is 'Not at first...' Meaning he views himself as some form of superior being so this is what I believe happened in the past.

 

Solas was a joke, an outsider kept as a court jester perhaps, yes one of the progenitors of the Elven race but of no significant value, he met the eye of Mythal & the two of them had an affair, (in the final scene of inquisition Solas & Flemmeth so seem very familiar with one another).

Needing an army, Solas began his deception of the Elven people by claiming that they were slaves, my thought on this is that the Valaslin is actually nothing more than clan markings depicting the allegiance of each Elf (similar as to how the Dalish use them now...also note that Solas only tells a romanced Lavellen his truth about these before trespasser), but with the right misinformation can easily be painted as something much more dreadful. My reasoning for this is once again during Trespasser if you listen to the last words of the Elven, none of them actually thank Solas for freeing them from tyranny & it is only in Solas's sanctuary that there is any reference to the elves being slaves.

Solas & Mythal's affair was discovered & Mythal seemingly killed, I'm guessing Solas wasn't around as it makes no sense for him to have been spared otherwise.

 

My final piece of information for me believing that Solas is nothing more than a wannabe usurper is, once again something he says in Trespasser. He claims that in performing his plan the world of Thedas will end & everyone will die, this must either:

1) include his own followers, whom he's using as paws, or,

2) He's going to somehow find a way to spare those that follow him & thus (assumption) would leave his followers believing he's more than just a man. This now leads me onto one question:

 

Just how has Solas found followers (slaves) in the modern times? If he's claimed to be Fen'harel then he'd receive very little help from the Dalish as they hold their stories close, this is possibly why he'd been chased away from clans before. Does he claim to speak for Fen'harel? If so, once again a hard sell, or has he done something altogether differently to amass his followers? Either way, all it does is prove that he is a liar & a deceiver, as (as he's not mentioned at all), see points 1) & 2).

 

So that's my own little theory involving Solas, Mythal & the events of the past, I also want to say that I have read none of the EU material as not all of it follows the world state that I've created in my playthrough's of previous games, so if I've missed anything that is canon please let me know.

[Gervaise]

I'm a bit confused here about where you are getting some of your information.   Has one of the writers actually said that a particular statue was meant to be Dirthamen?   I looked around pretty carefully last time I was in Mythal's bit of the Fade and I don't recall anything actually being identified as associated with a particular god.   I'll have to go back and look at them.  

 

Bloodying Falon'Din in his own Temple may well have been significant as to how Mythal dealt with him; after all he had been creating rivers of blood from those who refused him worship, so making him bleed in his own Temple was poetic justice if nothing else.   May be it was an action like with Andruil and the Void, something so extreme it would bring him to his senses.     It is almost as though the Creators started behaving oddly, which made them do things that are in keeping with their general outlook and yet more so.   First Andruil becoming obsessed with hunting the Forgotten Ones in the Void; then Falon'Din becoming uncontrollably aggressive in his obsession with gaining more worshipers.    According to Dalish lore, Mythal and Elgar'nan are the parents of the other Creator gods, apart from Ghilan'nain and likely Fen'Harel as well.    Of course they could be wrong in this and the relationship was somewhat different but if true then Mythal isn't just some senior god whipping her juniors into line but a mother dealing with her unruly offspring.      When Elgar'nan and Falon'Din had a grievance with one another, she was able to mediate between them and encourage them to use champions rather than going to war.    I have to wonder what changed that Andruil and Falon'Din went completely out of control and then one or all of the Evanuris murdered Mythal.   If that statue did depict Dirthamen with a sword in his back, may be his assailant was unknown too.  Why does it have to be Mythal?   

 

I also agree we only have Solas' word on in for the meaning of vallaslin.   Abelas had vallaslin, he was a servant of Mythal bound to her service, but from his own writings it would seem this was entirely voluntary, just as it is your choice whether or not to drink from the Well of Sorrows.   Corypheus also calls them slave markings but he is a servant of one of the Old Gods and so may have had his perception of them coloured by his own god (see below).   None of the servants, either alive or in spirit form, seem unhappy with their relationship to the Evanuris.   They were all still honoured in Mythal's own temple, hardly likely if they had collectively killed her.    The spirits were distraught at their loss and angry with Fen'Harel; not the reaction of slaves glad to at last be free.    Possibly it was a situation rather like the rebel mages and the Circle.    The rebel mages think of it as slavery, the loyalist mages see it as order and stability.

 

I'm also still waiting to find out if Evanuris does just apply to the ones we know as Creators or to the Forgotten Ones as well.   Gelduran seems to have rejected their right to rule of him as inherently divine but was also planning a move to usurp their power after their pride (Solas?) caused their downfall.    It was not that he rejected the idea that he could be a god himself but just pointed out this would be because of his ability to control and manipulate others into worshipping him, not because he was by nature "divine".    He strikes me as an ideal candidate for Dumat, since the Old Gods started talking to human Dreamers from the Fade only a short time (50 years) after the elves are said to have first felt the Quickening (in other words the raising of the Veil).   Originally they didn't identify themselves by any particular name and it was only later (some 1200 years) that Thalsian announced himself as the first priest of Dumat.     The elves who worship the Forgotten Ones have vallaslin too.   It is entirely possible that the aggressive elves in the Tirashan are not related to the Dalish at all (although there were elements who worshipped the Forgotten Ones in the Dales) but have remained in the depths of the forest since ancient times.

 

If the picture that Solas draws of the wolf and the dragon is not referring to his encounter with Mythal that we see at the end of the game but instead is of him discovering Mythal dead in ancient times, then this would suggest that he came upon her after the event, so only assumed who was responsible.    If the Forgotten Ones were trying to avenge themselves on the Creators, what better way than to make it appear as though one or all of them were responsible for the death of Mythal, then offer Fen'Harel the means to imprison them.   Then after the followers of the Creators had been severely weakened by the loss of their gods and their magic, side with the new rising power of the humans to co-opt their magical legacy and eventually enslave those faithful to the Creators, finally completing the plan by tricking their own followers into releasing the Blight on the world.     Some of the older legends claim that it was Dumat who created the Blight.   The Forgotten Ones are said by the Dalish to be the deities of Terror, Malice and Pestilence, which I think sums up the properties of the Blight pretty well.   As for the dragons that rise as the arch demons, these aren't the mortal manifestation of the Forgotten Ones but the dragons soul bonded with the Creators, thus explaining why Mythal is anxious to obtain and preserve their souls.

[Gervaise]

Okay, I've been back to explore Flemeth's Fade and noted down the various things I saw there and which gods if any they might be associated with:

 

Statue of a figure that seems to be holding a ram's head: Andruil or Ghilan'nain?   Immediately beneath it is a picture showing a skull head seemingly pointing at another skull that seems to be holding its head in distress: Andruil telling Ghilan'nain to destroy her creations?

 

Seat that looks like a throne but with chains attached to it.   Immediately behind is a giant statue of a naked man.   Could this be associated with Elgar'nan?   He had an enormous statue made of himself and the throne with chains could be a reference to him throwing down the sun and imprisoning it.   

 

Further down there is a dragon foot standing on a crowned head, a skull between two spikey objects and then a robed and hooded figure pointing.   I assume these are all references to Falon'Din.    The skull between two spikey objects is him killing people who would not worship him, the dragon stomping on his head is the other gods, led by Mythal, subduing him in his temple and the hooded figure is said to be associated with Falon'Din in his guise of guide.

 

Further down there is a section with red lyrium.   A suggestion that the Evanuris were responsible for its creation?     There is also a stone carving of a horned figure with a sword.   Is this meant to be a qunari/kossith?  Another skeleton is holding its head/covering its mouth?   Could this one be Dirthamen?    He is keeper of Secrets and knows the origins of both the red lyrium and the kossith?

 

Still further down there is a battering ram and two golem guardian statues, likely the ones that stand at the gates of Minrathous. (I'm pretty convinced that modern Minrathous is built over an old elven site)   This suggests constructs and possibly June as the crafter.

 

So far as I can tell there is no reference to Sylaise: Any suggestions based on the rest?   She is associated with fire and her followers seemed to think her efforts simply mimicked and surpassed those of the other gods. 

 

Finally we get to the statue (the image for which is given above) that is placed precisely over the area where Flemeth and Kieran stand.    It is dripping blood on to the ground near them.    I'm pretty sure that the statue is meant to be Mythal with a sword in the back (just like the one in Solas' picture) suggesting that she was stabbed in the back.  

 

So I'd welcome some input about whether you think I have identified them correctly.

 

Now here comes a bit of symbolic thinking which may be completely off the wall but here we go.    If I am correct and the dragons that become arch demons are associated with the elven gods and their identification of purpose is as suggested for the Old God, then Urthemiel, the Architect of Beauty, could also be June, the Crafter of Wonders.     Mythal is standing under the depiction of her dead body with Kieran, who has the soul of Urthemiel.   If the battering ram, etc, do represent  June, then could this indicate that the god actually responsible for the death of  Mythal, though quite possibly not intentionally, was June?   The codex in the Temple of Mythal says that June is the god of which the least is known.

 

June would appear to have been Mythal's youngest child and she may have felt the most protective towards him.   We have no idea whether Mythal had attempted the soul capture for the other Old Gods, although two of the Blights occurred before she was absorbed by Flemeth, so it is possible she was not in a position to do so.   However, may be she didn't want the others, only June, not out of vengeance but because she knew he was the innocent victim of another's plot.   She clearly says that the soul was "Snatched from the jaws of darkness."    The dark ritual was a rescue mission.   It could have just been a desire to mop up some ancient power to aid her but I believe it is more than that.    Mythal the Great Mother was saving her child.    This is why there is such resonance in her confrontation with Morrigan.   The latter admits afterwards that she thinks it was some sort of test.    When she says that "I will not be the mother you were to me", the condemnation seems to hurt Flemeth.   Then as a result of Morrigan's response, she takes the soul into her body.    Had Morrigan agreed to her taking Kieran, would Mythal have possessed him? 

 

When I challenge her about not doing more for the elves she says: "What was could not be changed."   Clearly Solas thinks it can.   However, she could just be referring to the fact that Mythal (in her fullness) is no more and so Flemeth only helped them in her own identity, not as Mythal.

Then when I say, what about now? (Because now my Dalish knows who Mythal is) the response "You know not what you ask, child."    I'm pretty convinced that whatever vengeance she is after, she is not committed to destroying the world to get it.   It may shake the very heavens but that is the Fade, not Thedas.   Whatever Solas is going to do, whatever power she has given him, it is not going to work out as he thinks.  (No surprise there then)

[Sah291]

Well, the lore talks about Mythal and Elgar'nan being the first children (of the earth and sun respectively), and while they are described as accomplishing great feats and having a hand in creation of Thedas (Elgar'nan burried the sun, so they were certainly very powerful), it doesn't sound like they created the world itself, or were the first or only beings of Thedas.

Elgar'nan was said to have driven the dwarves underground. So I think, possibly, Elgar'nan and Mythal are the children of Titans, (who they overthrew) and they fought a war with the ancient dwarves (who remained loyal to the Titans and were driven underground). The ancient elves then are the descendants of those that remained loyal to Mythal and Elgar'nan.

[Gervaise]

According to World of Thedas 1 the Dalish believe that Mythal and Elgar'nan created the world but that may be a misunderstanding.  They didn't create the actual world of which Thedas is a part but the did create the World of the Elves that Solas wants to restore.   So going by the creation myth in the Chant, the Maker created the Fade and the subsequently the material world.    The spirits were given leave to rule the Fade but not the material world.   However, some spirits crossed between the two, the first of which were Mythal and Elgar'nan, and created a world that bridged the two, which is why Solas raising the Veil had such disastrous consequences because the constructs were not simply created using the magic of the Fade but were part of both states of reality simultaneously, being held in place because they were drawing magic constantly from the Fade.   This seems borne out by the Crossroads which seems some sort  in between place, neither in the real world or the Fade but very close to both.

[Dai Grepher]

I'm pretty convinced that whatever vengeance she is after, she is not committed to destroying the world to get it. It may shake the very heavens but that is the Fade, not Thedas. Whatever Solas is going to do, whatever power she has given him, it is not going to work out as he thinks.  (No surprise there then)

Of course Solas will mess up again. I think the answer is almost 100% certain. He will drop the Veil, but it will only fall in the places where he closed the Veil in the first place. What he doesn't realize is that the Veil existed before him, and he did not create the Veil. He only pulled it from its original boundary and made it flood the Crossroads. Closing off the Fade and the Real in those areas. In doing so he was able to seal away the evanuris. Dropping this will cause them to be released, and this is what Mythal wants. She wants to take revenge on them. She wants the fight. She wants the war. Solas is still just her attack dog, and he doesn't even realize it.

Solas will then realize his error, and the (ex)Inquisitor will have the choice to keep him as a friend, or kill him. But I think in the end he will die either way. He said he was on the path of death. The only difference is if he dies alone or not.

[Aulis Vaara]

Solas' unfinished outline in Skyhold shows a dragon with a sword in its back, and the Dread Wolf finding her like that.

It shows a dragon with a sword in its foot with a wolf as the culprit. Clearly a reference to what Solas did at the end of Inquisition.

Well, the lore talks about Mythal and Elgar'nan being the first children (of the earth and sun respectively)

It sounds more like Mythal got the first body made from the Earth.

"They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget."

It was always strange to me that Elgar'nan is never associated with a particular animal like the other elven gods. It's possible that he never made a body for himself, and instead gave that honor to Mythal.

Elgar'nan was said to have driven the dwarves underground.

Likely a misinterpretation of the stories by the Dalish. The story says that the dwarves never came to the surface out of fear for Elgar'nan's light. But in Trespasser we learn that it is Mythal who said to the dwarves: "never yours the sun."

Combined with the story of making Andruil forget the way to the Void, I think what happened is this:

Elves are spirits from the Fade, and so, what they did was imitate what the Titans did on the world. They created bodies for themselves and doing so panicked the titans. The panicked titans fought back, tearing down the fledgling elven society. Mythal, feeling responsible for the lives of her children and others who imitated her creation of a body, hatches a plan to take down the Titans.

They succeed, tearing down the titans, and each of the heroic Evanuris gets one of the wellsprings left behind in the corpses of the titans. This makes them even more powerful than they already were, since it gives them access to lyrium. The Evanuris start developing godlike behaviors, abusing their powers, servants and just about everything else on Thedas. Mythal sees the dangers they pose to the very world and her children, and takes matters into her own hands. She buries the titans' corpses and hides them from the others.

And in order to keep those corpses hidden, she had bury the dwarves underground with them. To do so, she reinforced their fear of the sky, and specifically of Elgar'nan's fury.

That's in short, likely the story is a little more complex with the elves uncovering the taint etc, etc, but that seems the gist of it.

[Gervaise]

The Fade is also known as the Sky so it could be that originally the dwarves were fearful of the Fade, particularly as Mythal gave them dreams.   However, one of the codex in the Hissing Wastes makes reference to the fact that there was some iconography with dragons which in theory the dwarves should have known nothing about.   Of course when the dwarves originally came into contact with the elves their leaders, the Evanuris, could take the form of dragons and it was likely very dangerous for anyone out on the surface of the world away from the official settlements, which strangely enough do appear to have been largely underground.   Andruil in particular liked to hunt and initially hunted mortals, so presumably dwarves and later humans.

[Aulis Vaara]

1) I think they are called the Creators because they were the creators / progenitors of the Elven race, not the creator of Thedas. In Trespasser, Solas mentions that the Evanuris were the "the first of my people".

Have you considered that there might be a good deal of truth in the chantry tale? The elves being spirits would mean that they were initially imitators of the world, but the Creators managed to buck that trend and actually create things. This would be a very big deal to spirits, and even to those already on Thedas. No wonder the titans were terrified of them.
 

2) The Evanuris are powerful spirits and more, just like how Sten in the comic 'Those Who Speak' says that the Old Gods are powerful dragon and more and the first Human kings were powerful Humans and more.
 
I would like to extend that statement to this:- "The Evanuris were like unto powerful spirits, as the old gods were like unto dragons, and as the first human kings were like unto ordinary men"

Well, I would say that kings are just people, with a slight exception in Calenhad's line because of the dragon blood. Solas doesn't seem to think the Evanuris are something more, although, assuming that they are Dreamers, they are indeed something more than your run of the mill spirit.

As for the Old Gods, I'm not even convinced they are dragons. They take the shape of a dragon, sure, but did they always have that form? Do they actually have dragon blood? It's certainly possible, but I see no way for us to know for certain.
 

3) Statement 2 would explain the dual nature of the Evanuris. Spirits react differently to the world and the people they see. For example, a Spirit of Wisdom can become a Pride Demon under the appropriate circumstances. Similarly, those who come before the Evanuris with the purest of heart and intentions witnessed their spiritual nature and those who were malicious witnessed their demonic nature. Its why Mythal and Elgar'nan are what they are.Its why to the Dalish Elves, Falon'Din is the friend of the dead but to Solas, he is an utter douche-bag.

I think Falon'Din is friend to the dead because the Dalish clearly descend from those who bought into the Evanuris' propaganda, or at least that's where their culture comes from. Hence the evil version of the Dread Wolf instead of the rebellious one.

I've never really seen Elgar'nan as being dualistic though. If anything, all he has is fury, it's all that ever comes up in the stories. And I still think that he killed Mythal for eh... consorting with the Dread Wolf in a strong mirror of Flemeth's legend (hence why Mythal came to Flemeth). I do wonder what Elgar'nan's good side is, because we've never heard of it.
 

4) Solas was once part of the Evanuris, either as an actual deity, the God of Rebellion & the Trickster God before he choose to give that whole thing the middle finger, Either that or he was formerly Mythal's lieutenant or bodyguard or agent or champion and carried out her will.

I think it's pretty obvious that Solas was once seen as the god of rebellion, at least by some. That is not what he wanted though, he was just a spirit of wisdom, trying to show everyone that they deserved to be free just as much as the Evanuris. More importantly, I don't think that came "before" anything. I think he started to free people just as soon as he freed himself from Mythal. Many of those he freed would not be able to imagine actually being free, no longer beholden to a god, and thus they saw him as their new god.
 

5) The Mythal that we know right now is but a wisp of her former self. The Evanuris Mythal is all but gone and the reason Mythal is hell-bent on vengeance can be understood when you read the Codex on Wisps:- http://dragonage.wik...dex_entry:_Wisp
 
Sounds familiar ? Mythal's wisp is far stronger than a conventional wisp because she was once an Evanuris.

Hmm... FleMythal doesn't seem that hell-bent on revenge. Afterall, she allows herself to be killed by Solas. Her cunning is still massive and not very limited, which is shown in how she nudges history. Some or all of that may come from Flemeth.
 

6) Statement 5 means that it is possible to actually kill the Evanuris, but it is extremely difficult to do so. You will have to kill the Evanuris first, possibly with a powerful Ancient Elven weapon of some form and then destroy the Wisp.

Or you can just let the wisp be, like the ancient elves did. They do not return except under very specific circumstances.
 

7) Falon'Din and Dirthamen are either brothers or twins or might have even had a relationship that was not unlike that of Anders and Justice. Relevant Codex entry :- http://dragonage.wik...Twins_in_Shadow
 
So Dirthamen and Falon'Din are very closely related but they are not twins, they are not families. Nevertheless, they are so close that they are shadows and reflections of one another. But how is this similar to Anders and Justice ? Well, we know that the Evanuris were special powerful spirits that took mortal form.
 
The answer lies with Cole. Cole was originally a Spirit of Compassion that took mortal form and he can choose to be more spirit-like or more human-like. With regards to Falon'Din and Dirthamen, it is highly possible that one choose to be more spiritual, the other choose to be more Elven and they bonded like Justice and Anders. That would explain how one could be the other's shadow and reflection, in the same way Justice and Anders were like each other's shadow and reflection.
 
Anders in real world:- http://vignette3.wik...=20110504161457
 
Anders in the Fade:- http://vignette2.wik...=20110325181417

Dirthamen needed spirits/demons to travel the twisting paths of the fade and find Falon'din. This lends credence to Dirthamen having chosen a physical, worldly existence while Falon'din remained a spirit, or mostly a spirit.

The closer than brothers thing does suggest that one possessed the other, but then why would Dirthamen need to find his brother? And why would they then still be seen as separate entities? Afterall, once Anders and Justice merge, they are well and truly merged, the same with Flemeth and Mythal.

Is it instead possible that they are simply the same type of spirit? They might both be spirits of purpose, though their exact purposes would be slightly different. And maybe, like the librarian in Vir'Dirthara was "separated from herself", Falon'Din and Dirthamen were once one spirit of purpose but then split. Maybe because of the elven war that elevated them to Evanuris, or maybe because of their multiple purposes.
 

8) Dirthamen is punished for some form of crime and that crime has something to do with Ghilan'nain. This can be inferred from this picture and this text.
 
Picture:- http://vignette2.wik...=20150804015218
 
Text:- http://36.media.tumb...tapoxn_1280.jpg
 
It seems that Ghilan'nain and Dirthamen may have been teaching some pre-Veil mundanes powers that could rival the Evanuris. However, for some reason it appears that Dirthamen may have been the one to pay the price for this act.

Well, Dirthamen is the god of secrets. If we assume that only Mythal could transform into a dragon -which seems likely, there's no evidence that other gods could- then it would make sense that Dirthamen would want to know the secret. So he turned to the only other Evanuris that knows more about the monsters of the unchanging world: Ghilan'nain. Mythal was known to figure out the truth of things (people who called on her for selfish reasons were punished), so likely she figured out the truth of this one as well.

You know, I've looked at the "dark shifting mass with blazing eyes, before, but I'm not sure I ever really looked at it in context of where we found it. Did Elgar'nan turn this "criminal" into the Formless One? Or is Elgar'nan this formless shifting mass? Or... was this "criminal" the Formless One before being punished by Elgar'nan? Made formless by Ghilan'nain so it could take any form desired and thus Mythal's dragon form as well?
 

9) So it appears that Ghilan'nain and Dirthamen might have been teaching some pre-Veil mundanes (perhaps both Humans and Elves) powerful magics. The other Evanuris took this as a threat and for some reason, judged Dirthamen as the guilty one and let Elgar'nan deal with him (rather gruesomely). In response, Falon'Din became really pissed off at this and possibly schemed with Ghilan'nain and maybe even Sylvaise to take down Mythal. They managed to murder her but Mythal escaped as a wisp unbeknownst to them. This resulted in a massive civil war amongst the Elves.
 
The civil war was costing lots of lives of the worshipers of the Evanuris (who are slaves due to the Vallaslin). Solas, who previously was Mythal's guard dog wolf / lieutenant / champion / agent before he broke free and started freeing the Elves, saw that this war between Elves and between the Evanuris was going to destroy the world. He planned to convene the Evanuris at some spot to work out their differences before tricking them by forming the Veil or even by connecting bits of Veil that were around and solidifying it, resulting in the banishment of the Evanuris. The sundering of the Fade from the natural world caused the fall of Elvhenan and the quickening of the Elvhen.
 
Thoughts & Comments ?

I still think it's Elgar'nan who killed Mythal. I don't think any of the other Evanuris were up to the task. Mythal was both clever and powerful, which is how she was able to keep the other Evanuris more or less in line. She won against Andruil in special, powerful armor (Lyrium armor?) by simply resorting to her dragon form. So I don't see how the others would stand a chance.

[sniper_arrow]

I've never really seen Elgar'nan as being dualistic though. If anything, all he has is fury, it's all that ever comes up in the stories. And I still think that he killed Mythal for eh... consorting with the Dread Wolf in a strong mirror of Flemeth's legend (hence why Mythal came to Flemeth). I do wonder what Elgar'nan's good side is, because we've never heard of it.  

Hmm... FleMythal doesn't seem that hell-bent on revenge. Afterall, she allows herself to be killed by Solas. Her cunning is still massive and not very limited, which is shown in how she nudges history. Some or all of that may come from Flemeth.

 

I believe there is more into the story about the Evanuris than Solas let us to believe. In his POV, they were tyrants. But, is that really case? I would like to know more about them, especially Elgar'nan, from other sources that aren't connected to Mythal and Solas.

 

Flemeth may not be interested in revenge, but Mythal is. We only saw Flemeth dying, but what about Mythal's wisp? Was it absorb to Solas or did it go through the Eluvian before Flemeth's death? 

 

Overall, I think Mythal will play the wild card in the future of the series. She may be gentle and caring, but her quest for revenge may clash with possible events, including betraying Solas.