Even as a standard villain Corypheus is pretty terrible. He comes across as a joke and is not nearly menacing enough for the chaotic evil villain he is meant to be.
Never played it.. but I guess I agree then. To me, what he little he says in the beginning is radical and disastrous.. I can tell he'd rather see a different world order. It bothers me.
Even as a standard villain Corypheus is pretty terrible. He comes across as a joke and is not nearly menacing enough for the chaotic evil villain he is meant to be.
He isn't mean to be chaotic evil. Just insane, backed by cultists. Though I actually think In Hushed Whispers does a pretty good job of making the Elder One™ seem menacing enough. RPGs can't really do menacing villain well. I personally can't think of a game that really had a menacing villain.
Like DA:O, DA:I doesn't particularly have a good villain.
Maybe you're right, but I think DA2 slowed things down.. That kind of atmosphere is much more to my tastes. They could tell me more about guard captains and pirate queens, and I'd be happy. I would have been happy just playing Shepard like a bad cop on Omega.
I'm all for a small scale plot, but for that to work, I think it has to be a purely urban plot. And I don't think most people want something like that - though Deus Ex IN SPAAACE would be great.
And again opinion =/= fact. Personally wanted Cory to be included, and enjoyed his appearances, esp the VO in the Fade.
Yeah he has a generally creepy voice in DAI which in my opinion worked well for him given he is a fantasy world type villain.
I'm all for a small scale plot, but for that to work, I think it has to be a purely urban plot. And I don't think most people want something like that - though Deus Ex IN SPAAACE would be great.
Yeah, I have a hard time seeing it other than urban.
Although I could see a Dalish clan/hunter story on a small scale. Or a band of dwarves...Maybe not as epic as the Hobbit, but something along those lines.
I don't like the Qunari, but I could see a small scale Vashoth story too.. on the outskirts of Tevinter, struggling between two sides.
As for Mass Effect, I'm surprised that isn't what more people want. That's basically the whole Spectre ideal.. just some being some space cop. And I thought most people's favorite parts are the urban bits. Maybe I'm projecting.
The short of it is that Dhaos, the villain bent on world-wide destruction, is actually doing it all to save his own dying world. It's a bittersweet ending in that regard.
I don't think we know that's the original plan. Bioware saying DA:I was planned to be twice as large could mean more content for the same end. But I agree with the idea that Corypheus was not fleshed out because Solas was the conceptual endgame.
True we don't know and I'm just guessing. I think Gaider did mention that they were originally thinking of more of a Wolf Hunt as the end of the base game rather than as the final DLC, which makes me think there was going to be a more involved Solas-as-antagonist element within the game.
Plus I'm wondering whether Corypheus was intended to be the final villain in Exalted March, which would make more sense to have a DLC enemy be resolved in another DLC for the same game rather than transfer to a new game. And since Cory's plot involved eluvians and the nature of the gods, we could have an introduction to Solas at the end of Exalted Marches, Cory opens the orb and somehow has a permanent death rather than regenerate, the destruction of the Conclave ends the DLC and then Solas is still a companion in DAI because the orb was destroyed in the explosion and he needs the Inquisition to help find other ancient elven sources of power.
Something like that...
The other thing I want to get out of the way is those epic plots make a world small real quick. DA has potential to be like D&D with decades worth of stories. Maybe (big maybe). But not if they blow so much away with drastic events.
Same goes for Mass Effect. That's why I'm weary of this new one.
I think Bio had the concept for a finite number of games for DA. The series is named after a century in the world, after all, and while that wouldn't preclude any game to occur after 9:99, it seems like the intention is that this century will bring about great change for the entire world. Maybe it will be lowering the Veil and changing the nature of magic in the mundane world. Maybe the old dragons will awaken and the titans will awaken and the Enuvaris will escape. But it never felt like the setting was intended to be an indefinite open location for adventures like the Forgotten Realms.
How do you figure? The plot was as brilliant as it gets.Touche. But I don't have to actually be face to face with them here!
You're right but what you're talking about is all the side stuff, and I agree that stuff was great. ME2's entire value was in developing the characters. ME2 certainly shifted the series from plot focused to character focused, like Star Wars is. However, that has nothing to do with the main plot. Killing Shepard, destroying the Normandy, expanding Cerberus, and introducing the Collectors had no value whatsoever.
Secondly, everything was bound to the individuals. The parts of the game that had to do with the Genophage weren't about the Salarians or even Krogan generally, they were about Mordin. The drama in curing it in ME3 is bound in Mordin and Wrex and, as much as I like Padok Wiks, the entire thing is diminished without those two characters. The same is true of the Rannoch arc with Tali and Legion.
No, you're the one doing that. It objectively did not progress the series plot. Please tell me how it did. Your enjoyment of it is what is subjective opinion. I also enjoyed it but that had nothing to do with the main plot. It had to do with gameplay and the excellent characters.
This is just wrong. The Collectors were building the next Reaper, not doing anything to bring the Reapers back like Sovereign was with the Geth. It wasn't a change in tactics, though. It was something completely unrelated, unless you think they were going to deploy the Human Reaper to try Sovereign's plan again.
That's just you creating your own game within the game. You're defining your own objectives. That's perfectly fine, but that's what it is. That doesn't make the actual game not a game.
The Geth alone are not an arc so I assume you mean the entire Geth/Quarian conflict. Yes, that is developed but not along the main plot. The same is true for the Genophage. What happens with Citadel politics? You have one meeting with the Council. What exactly was developed regarding Turians and Asari?
Also, as I mentioned above, the Genophage and Quarian/Geth conflict are particularly focused on the characters, Mordin, Grunt, Talki, Legion, and Wrex. They are not focused on the species as a whole.
The difference between ME2 and The Empire Strikes Back is that the film does advance the main story. Star Wars is entirely focused on the characters, with the war against the Empire being the back drop for the character stories. ME2 shifts Mass Effect into a similar story. So the most important things in Empire are Luke training with Yoda and facing Vader. Luke develops and a major plot point is revealed. When does this happen in ME2? Where does Shepard change? What of value do we learn about our opponent? Shepard, and most of the other characters, are barely phased by Shepard's death and resurrection. There's just one line about it in ME3, a game too late.
What connections of value, other than Liara as Shadow Broker? Shepard met Aria but while she shows Shepard some respect, she doesn't really care about him/her.
End of ME1: The Reapers are coming to kill us all and we have no way to stop them.
End of ME2: The Reapers are coming to kill us all and we have no way to stop them. Also they are closer now.
That may be but it certainly is not because of the plot.
I think Bio had the concept for a finite number of games for DA. The series is named after a century in the world, after all, and while that wouldn't preclude any game to occur after 9:99, it seems like the intention is that this century will bring about great change for the entire world. Maybe it will be lowering the Veil and changing the nature of magic in the mundane world. Maybe the old dragons will awaken and the titans will awaken and the Enuvaris will escape. But it never felt like the setting was intended to be an indefinite open location for adventures like the Forgotten Realms.
If that's the case, it'll die sooner for me than I thought. I have no interest in changing worlds too much. I like to live in them. I had some fears of this with the Architect choice and OGB, but luckily those choices can end quickly and be forgotten.
If that's the case, it'll die sooner for me than I thought. I have no interest in changing worlds too much. I like to live in them. I had some fears of this with the Architect choice and OGB, but luckily those choices can end quickly and be forgotten.
I mean, even the background story of DAO has a limited number of Blights, and once the current one is over, there can be only two more, and then who knows what happens? Sure, it could be that the next two Blights don't happen for hundreds of years, but something that is inevitable and of limited numbers seems like a plot that will change the setting at some point.
I mean, even the background story of DAO has a limited number of Blights, and once the current one is over, there can be only two more, and then who knows what happens? Sure, it could be that the next two Blights don't happen for hundreds of years, but something that is inevitable and of limited numbers seems like a plot that will change the setting at some point.
Yeah, but I figured that's still 500 years combined or so. Enough time for plenty of stories at least. 
The other thing is I don't like magic dominating the whole structure of how the characters live. Fantasy writers who focus on magic (or just fans of this) don't seem to realize that a lot of other fantasy fans are also martial art/combat nuts who don't get off on that sort of thing. Or at least, not all the time. They even assume if you like warriors, you still want to be some hybrid or something. They don't get it.
He isn't mean to be chaotic evil. Just insane, backed by cultists. Though I actually think In Hushed Whispers does a pretty good job of making the Elder One™ seem menacing enough. RPGs can't really do menacing villain well. I personally can't think of a game that really had a menacing villain.
Like DA:O, DA:I doesn't particularly have a good villain.
Its not impossible in RPGs, just need to have him actually serve the player some more significant gut punches throughout the narrative. After Haven he repeatedly gets his ass handed to him everywhere in the game by the player, its hard to have such a villain feel threatening when he's struck by such a comical chain of losses at the hands of the player.
It's totally impossible. A gut punch is basically just cutscene magic ala Kai Leng.Its not impossible in RPGs, just need to have him actually serve the player some more significant gut punches throughout the narrative. After Haven he repeatedly gets his ass handed to him everywhere in the game by the player, its hard to have such a villain feel threatening when he's struck by such a comical chain of losses at the hands of the player.
It's totally impossible. A gut punch is basically just cutscene magic ala Kai Leng.
Good villains work by winning off screen. Games will create tension by forcing the player to be in multiple places at the same time, giving the antagonist ground.
The problem with Kai Leng wasn't that he won in a cutscene. Its that the cutscene had Shepard do things that'd never reasonably happen in gameplay, creating a disconnect between narrative and gameplay.
It's totally impossible. A gut punch is basically just cutscene magic ala Kai Leng.
Good villains work by winning off screen. Games will create tension by forcing the player to be in multiple places at the same time, giving the antagonist ground.
Not quite; a good villain can score a gut punch against the player in person but it requires careful writing as otherwise it becomes the writer cheating to let the villain to win. I'll see if I find an example.
Part of the problem with Kai Leng was that the writers had a habit of blatantly cheating to allow him to win such as by having other characters act unlike how they have previously been shown to act in similar situations.
It's totally impossible. A gut punch is basically just cutscene magic ala Kai Leng.
Good villains work by winning off screen. Games will create tension by forcing the player to be in multiple places at the same time, giving the antagonist ground.
I think it'll be easier if I quote what I've previously said on the subject;
I do not mind failing or suffering a loss or a setback during a mission. What I mind is how that failure, that loss and that setback comes about, however, since that tends to be the difference between a loss, failure and setback feeling forced and feeling like it was the result of the story's events and characters. In the case of the former, I do not enjoy it and feel it cheapens the story. In the case of the latter, I can enjoy it and feel it adds to the story.
The former tends to feature a character's plot armor becoming so obvious it cannot be ignored by the player and the player character's established skills and intelligence being lowered or forgotten because it was necessary for the plot to make the failure possible. If a failure cannot be executed because of the player character's established abilities and intelligence, then the failure needs to happen in a different way or there needs to be a reason as to why the player character's established abilities and intelligence are lowered that goes beyond because the plot needed them to be.
Example: Thane's fight with Kai Leng was fine in theory for me. What made it fail in execution for me and feel forced was how Thane, Shepard and company acted during the scene which seemed at odds with how they should logically had acted given established characterization.
You can have scenes in which the player character and the good guys fail and suffer loss but the good way of doing it is to make it seem like it happened because of characterization, circumstances and similar in-story reasons and not make it seem like it was because the plot demanded it and the writers wanted it.
TL: DR; I think George R. R Martin had the better way of putting it: He didn't want the story to cheat to let the good guys win but he didn't want the story to cheat to let the bad guys win either.
It's totally impossible. A gut punch is basically just cutscene magic ala Kai Leng.
Good villains work by winning off screen. Games will create tension by forcing the player to be in multiple places at the same time, giving the antagonist ground.
And my opinion on Kai Leng and some of the problems I saw with his character including the cutscene on Thessia and how it could have been improved in my opinion;
In my opinion, Kai Leng would have been interesting if he had been a silent character who is professional in his behavior but I may be bias because I feel his dialogue made him seem terribly generic. Kai Leng could have been a silent character who would be genuinely intimidating in gameplay and who would not need to have other characters act unlike themselves to make himself seem a threat. Kai Leng had plenty of potential and I am still of the opinion that the execution of his character was where his potential were ruined.
"Good. You opened this message. This isn't actually asari command. They're busy tending to what's left of their planet. So you survived our fight on Thessia. You're not as weak as I thought. But never forget your best wasn't good enough to stop me. Now an entire planet is dying because you lacked the strength to win. The legend of Shepard needs to be re-written. I hope I'm there for the last chapter. It ends with your death. -KL"
This email is likely intended to serve as a boost of Shepard's supposed feelings of failure and as a way of trying to make the player become personally invested in Kai Leng's defeat as a way of making him pay but to me, it makes Kai Leng seem childish and worse, generic childish. His taunt seems that of a character whose defining trait is that they believe themselves to be superior to their foe when nothing but their ego indicates despite their foe supposedly being concerned that this might be the case.
Kai Leng seems to percieve himself as a personal match for Shepard in terms of combat skill and the game itself seem try to make this the case but this is laughable because the section where this needs to be shown is where he falls so hard: gameplay.
On Thessia, I was an Infiltrator who was unharmed because my sniper rifle calmly dealt with him before he even came halfway close to me. If he'd been a credible threat, he might have taken this into account and altered tactics instead of repeatedly running into the sight of a sniper. It made him look like an awful assassin. A smart tactic might have been to force my character into cover by the way of the gunship laying down fire and serving as a distraction while he took position at a vantage point where he could try to take my character out with a sniper rifle of his own.
Prior to the battle itself, both Kai Leng and the Illusive Man acts very questionable considering their supposed brilliance: Kai Leng casually walks towards Shepard with the gunship blaring a light in the background thereby revealing all of the cards up his sleeve. Vendetta's warning reveals the presence of indoctrinated people, yes, but not who and how many. The Illusive Man could have sent a mook to be the messenger while Kai Leng remained an unseen presence who would have the element of surprise if the situation called for combat.
On Cronos, I was more concerned with keeping track of his Phantom mooks than I was with him. I could never percieve him as a genuine threat because he was never a genuine threat.
Summation: Kai Leng was supposedly recruited by the Illusive Man with a primary reason being his powess in combat. Kai Leng is supposed to have become the preferred operative and assassin of the Illusive Man for over a decade . Kai Leng is supposed to be methodical, ruthless and discreet. Kai Leng, however, is less threatening than his mooks. Kai Leng is unprioritised in terms of danger by his own mooks.
Yes, to put it briefly I didn't like:
Spoiler
For that reason I hope MEA isn't planned as a trilogy but is totally standalone so they have the freedom to go crazy with the story.
Not imo. ME1 had the best mechanics, but ME2 by far had the best opening, best pacing and the absolute best climax. What happened in ME2's climax was exactly what should have happened in 3's climax. I can't think of another game except maybe TLOU that delivered completely with the ending, and ME2 didn't drop the ball not once. It was strong from beginning, mid to end. Seeing all your team come together like that is exactly how ME3 should have ended with all the people you allied and helped out throughout all the games fighting the reapers. But that didn't happen.
Inquistion was standalone too, and it's story sucked. So that point is pretty moot. I have my doubts on Andromeda even providing half the narrative or interesting characters the trilogy did. Inquisition sure didn't. Trevelyan was no Shepard.
Not imo. ME1 had the best mechanics, but ME2 by far had the best opening, best pacing and the absolute best climax. What happened in ME2's climax was exactly what should have happened in 3's climax. I can't think of another game except maybe TLOU that delivered completely with the ending, and ME2 didn't drop the ball not once. It was strong from beginning, mid to end. Seeing all your team come together like that is exactly how ME3 should have ended with all the people you allied and helped out throughout all the games fighting the reapers. But that didn't happen.
Inquistion was standalone too, and it's story sucked. So that point is pretty moot. I have my doubts on Andromeda even providing half the narrative or interesting characters the trilogy did. Inquisition sure didn't. Trevelyan was no Shepard.
Not imo. ME1 had the best mechanics, but ME2 by far had the best opening, best pacing and the absolute best climax. What happened in ME2's climax was exactly what should have happened in 3's climax. I can't think of another game except maybe TLOU that delivered completely with the ending, and ME2 didn't drop the ball not once. It was strong from beginning, mid to end. Seeing all your team come together like that is exactly how ME3 should have ended with all the people you allied and helped out throughout all the games fighting the reapers. But that didn't happen.
Inquistion was standalone too, and it's story sucked. So that point is pretty moot. I have my doubts on Andromeda even providing half the narrative or interesting characters the trilogy did. Inquisition sure didn't. Trevelyan was no Shepard.
I agree, except ME2's opening was ridiculous.
But it's still my favorite of the bunch.
Yes yes YES *pumping fist*Not imo. ME1 had the best mechanics, but ME2 by far had the best opening, best pacing and the absolute best climax. What happened in ME2's climax was exactly what should have happened in 3's climax. I can't think of another game except maybe TLOU that delivered completely with the ending, and ME2 didn't drop the ball not once. It was strong from beginning, mid to end. Seeing all your team come together like that is exactly how ME3 should have ended with all the people you allied and helped out throughout all the games fighting the reapers. But that didn't happen.
Inquistion was standalone too, and it's story sucked. So that point is pretty moot. I have my doubts on Andromeda even providing half the narrative or interesting characters the trilogy did. Inquisition sure didn't. Trevelyan was no Shepard.
It's not like the existing world order is any good. Andrastian society seems to have just about everything about magic and spirits wrong, and Tevinter and the qunari are even worse. Only the fringe groups like the Avvar and the Dalish seem to have a clue.
I knew there was a reason why I liked the elves 
Dalish are just as clueless. They're paying tribute to slavemasters and don't even realize it. How silly is that.
I don't think the Chantry as a whole is clueless about spirits and lyrium. Those are tools the former Inquisition used to militarize and manipulate the masses. It needs to be dispensed of imo. But the Andrastian part itself never made any claims about the nature of those things. It's roots are in the "Maker". And that's too mysterious that there's nothing to really be said about it. Even Solas is open to the idea of the "Maker".
I agree, except ME2's opening was ridiculous.
But it's still my favorite of the bunch.
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