847 réponses à ce sujet

[Erstus]

There's one random encounter with darkspawn for each of the factions you recruit (after you recruit them), there's another in Wynne's companion quest, there are darkspawn in multiple areas in the Brecilian forest, there's the encounter where you find the dog, there's the random encounter with the field full of traps, two of the origin stories (dwarf noble and dalish elf), the RtO and SP DLC are both filled with darkspawn, and there's at least one other randon encounter I'm forgetting.

You even fight them in the Fade, haha. Though I assume those are just spirits or demons.

[Malanek]

Well, the Protheans weren't Collectors, any more than husks are humans. And Prothean civilization certainly was destroyed- though that was established back in ME1.

 

 

We found out they were turned into collectors. That is different than being destroyed and is different to the origins of the Geth. They were actually quite different to human husks. They were tasked with activities that required intelligence like trade, abduction, interstellar travel (and presumably maintenance), along with constructing a Reaper. And it's another clue to what the Reapers purpose might be.

 

 

But the reveal that Reapers are made of people doesn't really require the Collectors. If, say, Geth were processing human prisoners, the reveal would be just as valid.

 

 

 

You said yourself... "What the Collectors showed was the Reaper's preservationist tendencies.... but those were already demonstrated by the reveal of the Reapers as species-boxes. That would apply even if the Geth were the builders of the human Reaper."... but that is completely the wrong way to tell a story. We see the collectors as a hint and a clue of what the Reapers true purpose is before getting the bigger reveal of them constructing a Reaper at the end of the second game. It's about mystery and building up the story to the reveal.

 

 

 

The fact that not all species get made into Reapers doesn't really add any more gravitas than some of the planet scans or Leviathan of Dis in my view... but that, to, doesn't require the Collectors to demonstrate.

 

After all, Heretic Geth- who really, really want to be Real God-machines, won't be able to become Reapers. Yet another role the Geth could fulfill, even as any other genetic unworthiness could be communicated by the Reaper proxy.

 

 

I don't want to get into this too much because I don't think it is actually important to this discussion, but if only one in 10, or 20 or even more species is fit to fulfill the Reapers needs then it clearly makes them feel more ominous and much older than they would otherwise.

 

 

 

The Collectors didn't show any more intelligence than the Geth we saw in ME1, and far less than most of the VI/AI characters we dealt with. The only Collector that showed any intelligence was the Collector General, and that was because he was a Reaper puppet 99% of the time.
 

 

I was talking about indoctrination in organics versus controlling an artificial intelligence. It has nothing to do with intelligence levels but simply the structure and medium of the mind.

 

 

 

What did we actually know about Geth after ME1? The closest they had to a major reveal after showing up at all was that they had vague religious motives.

 

We know one hell of a lot more about them than the collectors. We know about their origins, how they were created, their war with the quarians, how they reproduce, the fact that they were working with the Reapers throughout the first game. At the start of ME2 then the collectors are deliberately a big mystery which the player gradually unravels. The illusive man thinks the reapers are behind the abductions but this isn't confirmed for a while.

[The Night Haunter]

Funny really, stepping away from Mass Effect and trying to actually analyse it (i..e not be drawn in by the feels, or the nostalgic feeling of meeting old characters) does tend to make you see how shallow and contrived things are, and often just how plain dumb people have to be to make it work. Even high spots like LotSB bring their own problems (for example the fact that the Shadow Broker successfully sent probes through the Omega 4 relay..).

 

I'm currently on a bit of a DS9 nostalgia trip (also known as avoiding Tali's loyalty mission), and seeing things like this really make me realise how far behind Bioware can be when it comes to plots and characters:

 

 

And yes, DS9 is Best Star Trek.

I love Garak. He is my favorite character.

I don't think DS9 was the best (Voyager holds that spot for me), but it was a lot better than most people give it credit for.

'It is easy to be a saint in Paradise.'

[Natureguy85]

They had more than one ship. That's why it was creepy when Shepard said "so wait you're telling me it's the same ship that's been dogging me all these years?" It was only remarkable because there are more than one ship. Of there was only one ship, why would this comment need to be made?

And I liked that, too, because it played into their creeper/stalker angle. Which is a cool aspect for enemies to have.

And why wouldn't the collectors succeed? They succeeded, multiple times. Ever since we heard about them. They even friggin boarded Shepard's Normandy SR2. And honestly, even on Horizon, even with Kaidan there, the lasers came on too late. The collectors successfully harvested a ton if not most of the colonists on Horizon. They were winning all the way up until Shepard went through the Omega 4 relay. And they would have continued winning if Shepard hadn't found a rare key, bypassed a debris field with a stroke of luck, and infiltrated their base.

 

Where is the evidence beyond that one line that they have more than one ship? It would make sense that they did, but it’s implied that they don’t. I see that line as them realizing “wow, there really is only one ship.” Looking at that line by itself, either interpretation is valid. Common sense would suggest your interpretation is likely. However, everything else in the game, including ME2’s failure at common sense, suggests my interpretation.

We never hear of multiple colonies getting hit at once or multiple ships. Most significantly, only one ship launces from the base and no more come during the time between the Normandy’s arrival and departure.

 

It’s not that the Collectors won’t succeed in individual captures. Those are not their goal, but the means to the goal of building the Reaper. And we don’t know if that is a means to a different goal or just Reaper reproduction. They can’t get the people they need. They will never succeed attacking a colony in Citadel Space, let alone Earth.

 

 

 

 

Out of all the complaints one may have about these games, saying the collectors were not a threatening and well-done enemy is just not one of the reasonable ones.

There are many complaints I will agree with. But this is just one that shall not pass.

 

That depends on what you mean by “threatening and well done.” They are certainly terrifying for the civilian population, particularly the horror of the paralysis from the seeker swarms. Leaving no trace is certainly creepy, but that gets tossed on the first mission. However, they are in no way a terrifying enemy to a group of soldiers immune from those seekers. The other problem with them is that they are all the same, with the only enemy variety coming from other husk type creatures and the Scions and Praetorians. They were way more horrifying than the bug-men.

 

 

 

On the note of the Collectors they were being rather dumb, but it did actually kind of fit them. They were controlled by Harbinger who is a Reaper, and it's noted that the biggest weakness of the Reapers from the start is their arrogance. They legitimately believe that nothing can stop them, which is why Sovereign risked uniting the entire galaxy by doing a full out assault on the Citadel. It never occurred to it that it might lose, especially with the Geth on its side. It was a Reaper, and Reapers were supposed to be unstoppable.

 

and so Harbinger commands the Collectors to start constructing a Human Reaper because again, it never occurs to Harbinger that they might lose. Despite Sovereign being destroyed, Harbinger still believed that the Reapers as a whole could not be stopped even if they lost a few along the way.

 

The whole battle strategy of the Reapers in all 3 games is dumb because they didn't believe it was possible for them to fail due to their overwhelming numbers and technological advantage. They also very nearly win despite the fact that they had a horrible strategy.

 

At no point in the series were the Reapers ever really shown to have good tactical thinking, and they were the ones controlling the Collectors so why would they have good tactical thinking?

 

I don't know if I should call that well done or not, because I've honestly no idea if all that was intentional or just another case of "Probably best you don't over think it" that happened to fit when you actually did. Over thinking it just happens to be fun sometimes =P

 

That said I still think, awesome as they were, the Collectors served no real purpose for the overarching plot of the trilogy. They tell us nothing new about the Reapers, and only gave us a lore point about what happened to the Protheans which is interesting but wasn't really relevant to the main plot. Come Mass Effect 3 they're not heard from again outside of MP due to high fan demand for them.

 

The Reapers overall don’t have a horrible strategy. The process described in ME1 is pretty solid. I see what you’re saying about arrogance, but it would have been better for the game to call attention to it. Vigil does in ME1, saying Sovereign has grown bold, but he also questions if it’s confidence or desperation. I really liked that line. But the problem with the Collector plot is that we can’t even see the benefits of it.
 

The Reapers have a great strategy described in ME1. They leave behind technology to push civilizations down a particular technological, scientific, and societal path. They give the ability to move across the galaxy quickly, promoting expansion and spreading. They also promote the Citadel as an obvious place of significance. Then they come by surprise, cut off communication and travel, and destroy the civilizations of the galaxy who are now isolated.

Your last paragraph is otherwise spot on. I have not played ME3 MP in a long time; was there a demand for Collectors or did they just decide to make another faction?

 

 

 

 

They may have had more than one ship, but the fact that this was never brought up, and Shepard kept encountering the same ship strongly implies otherwise.  If the Collectors indeed had enough ships to endanger Earth, that's extremely bad writing.

 

GARDIANs are not exactly overkill as far as defenses go.  According to the codex, they are pretty standard anti-fighter defenses for most ships. (General ARea Defense Integration Anti-spacecraft Network)  

 

Exactly right on the Collector Cruiser. The Guardian laser turrets on Horizon are clearly different from those on starships (ignore that the animators made them cannons and they look like the missile launchers from the first game.) I think it was someone not paying attention.

 

 

 

And to be even fairer, they never had to think or be proactive at all. Just repeat the exact same strategy over and over. I guess is not that far-fetched that they hadn't the slightest idea of what to do once the program got glitchy.

 

I really wish that had been an actual plot point. It would have been perfect talking to the Catalyst.

 

 

 

 

No, Shepard encountering the same ship didn't imply there weren't others. It implied that that ship was obsessed with him and stalking him.

 

Commenting "what, this is the same ship?" strongly implied that it is odd....because, well... it's obvious there are plenty of ships, and it is only odd that this one returns.

 

Creeper stalker humanoid insectoid aliens. That's not bad writing, it's an intentional characerization of the enemy.

 

Which also made it a more personal battle for Shepard, as well.

 

It could imply that there are other ships or just that Shepard thought there were. The value is in the Collector’s interest in Shepard but what is the value in it being the same ship? Why not any ship? The individual Collectors are all Drones so it’s not as if they can have a personal interest, like Darth Vader chasing Luke Skywalker in the opening of Empire Strikes Back.

 

 

 

 

That dialogue would have been just bizarre if there was only the one ship, yeah.

 

Again, no, because Shepard knows nothing about the Collectors. He has no idea how many ships they have so if they have 1 or 100, it’s news to him. They could have other ships of different types, I suppose.

 

 

 

 

You're all like children who are partially eclipsed by a curtain with someone on the other side and go, "wow they can't see me, since my eyes cannot see them"

 

 

Actually we’re saying because we can’t see them, they aren’t there. Get the analogy right. I already have to deal with Gothpunkboy being terrible at them. However, you have no way to pull back the curtain to show that there actually is someone there. You can’t hear them or see them move or sense them in any way. You just assume they are there.

[StarcloudSWG]

The speculation aboard the Collector ship during the trap was incorrect, I feel. Or rather, incomplete.

 

The Collector ship was that large in order to carry lots of bodies, certainly. But the Collectors were never planning to 'hit Earth' like Shepard's squadmates speculate.

 

Rather, the Collector ship was meant to transport captives after the Reaper invasion started, taking them from Earth to the Collector base where all the processing equipment had been built and a Reaper core was being 'grown'.

 

It was just the tool they had handy when 'plan B' came into effect; building a Reaper inside the galaxy so that it could open the back door for the others eventually.

[Addictress]

Natureguy look:
http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/61218367

[Addictress]

Many other people think the collectors were weak and inept. Oh, they had more ships? How did they fail to stop them?

To be fair, Shepard also attacked them with 1 ship. It was a stealth mission and if they predicted more ships on the other end of the relay, they'd have brought more Cerberus ships for support.

I mean maybe TIM just thought correctly that one tiny Normandy wouldn't cause a stir.

Although it is true that if the collectors are aware of Shepard and stalking him, they should be aware he's coming through the relay. But remember they thought they basically won already since they already abducted 90% of his crew!!! Perhaps they overestimated how valuable that crew was to Shepard's success.

So if anything, it shows Shepard's crew was useless.

The collectors were fooled because the crew was a decoy of sorts. Sacrifice meat. That's why collectors let down their guard.

[Natureguy85]

Truth be told, thinking too hard about the main plot of any Bioware game is not a good idea.

 

That trope does not apply to the Bioware games that I’ve played. ME2 is rather close to that image though. However, I did find a link from that page to a hilarious article. The Napoleonic one is the best.

http://www.cracked.c...istory-war.html

 

 

 

It's good enough within the context of videogamey standards. No one is comparing it with Oscar films here

 

No it’s not. The previous game’s was far superior. Even ME3 does better.

 

 

 

 

I'd hope it would at least rise above "Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President from ninjas"...

 

It’s “are you a bad enough dude (or dudette) to rescue people from the bug-men?”

 

 

 

 

And for ME2, its story was never what made it stood out for me. I would argue (aware it may be controversial) that ME1 and ME3 had the better stories in the trilogy. I would also argue that as a trilogy, Mass Effect has a pretty good story, and it stands out from other video game stories that I have played. Its all subjective though, and BioWare's rep is built on the fact that there games tell (or arguably used to tell) good stories with interesting and memorable characters. It's said characters that make ME2 for me, and the trilogy as a whole. 

 

You’re right that ME2 zoomed in on the characters more than ME1 did, and the series never went back. This was the best part of the game and the character missions were very good. But while that allows ME2 to still be a good game, that doesn’t excuse the weak main plot. It didn’t have to be so.

 

 

 

 

Think of it in terms of DAO, which is all about stopping the Blight... except you barely fight darkspawn throughout the game and you spend most of it dealing with a bunch of entirely unrelated issues. And to be fair, would DAO be better if it focused on fighting the generic evil horde of evilness? Will the ME series be better if it focused entirely on fighting the Reapers?

 

Because just like ME2 had the Collectors as a flimsy excuse to show us bits and pieces of the universe, ME3 had the Reapers and Cerberus as a flimsy excuse to make us solve centuries or millennia old conflicts that had nothing to do with our mission statement. ME1 did somewhat better in that regard, but we're still visiting a bunch of random places with no connection the one to the other just because Saren happened to be there at some point.

 

So yeah, Bioware sucks at main plots, and they usually try to make up for it through characters and with more interesting subplots. Whether they succeed there or not depends on who you ask.

 

You’re right that DAO put the Darkspawn in the background compared to Loghain and local problems of the individual groups you visit. However, there are a few differences.

First, resolving all of those problems was done as prepation to fight the Darkspawn. Second, you went to fight the Darkspawn and beat them in the same game. Third, the Darkspawn do show up from time to time to remind you that they are there and they are the real enemy.

 

Why did we need a nonsense plot to explore the galaxy? Why couldn’t it be searching out Prothean ruins to find more Vigil type VIs or archives like Mars? The Reapers and Cerberus weren’t flimsy excuses for Shepard to solve those problems; Shepard and the player already had motivation from his/her friends and how those issues affected them directly. Those enemy forces were only motivation for the rest of the galaxy to act.

 

Those places in ME1 weren’t random and the game justifies why you’re going there. ME2 does not justify why you're recruiting most of the characters.

 

 

 

 

Naw, I feel the same as you (having played each game within minutes of their release time). The resurrection was a 'normal' scifi plot to explain 2 years out of the loop and to make more plot threads. I don't think the Lazarus Project was the best thing they could've done, but at the time (and now) I had no issue with it. ME3 is really where the issues with story telling in ME became a problem, ME2's issues were mostly a completely different combat system and complete lack of character and weapon progression compared to ME1 (this is all imo of course).

 

The resurrection was pointless. Why not just skip two years or severely injure Shepard? Why go the extra BS route of death and resurrection, particularly if you’re not going to explore the implications or ethics of that in the least bit? That lack of character progression for Shepard is a big part of why the whole Lazarus thing was stupid.

 

 

 

 

Funny really, stepping away from Mass Effect and trying to actually analyse it (i..e not be drawn in by the feels, or the nostalgic feeling of meeting old characters) does tend to make you see how shallow and contrived things are, and often just how plain dumb people have to be to make it work. Even high spots like LotSB bring their own problems (for example the fact that the Shadow Broker successfully sent probes through the Omega 4 relay..).

 

I'm currently on a bit of a DS9 nostalgia trip (also known as avoiding Tali's loyalty mission), and seeing things like this really make me realise how far behind Bioware can be when it comes to plots and characters:

 

 

And yes, DS9 is Best Star Trek.

 

The captain's acting style seems terrible for the conversation but perfect for the monologue to the computer. His theatre background is obvious. That's a mighty backhand though. The alien guy does a great performance. Good thing nobody else came in to get a shirt!

 

 

 

 

Why is anything important? One of the big mysteries in ME1 was who the Protheans were and what happened to them. It was assumed that they were destroyed, but in fact they were changed. It was an answer to a mystery. 

 

The "arbitrary handwave" showed that not all species were suitable. Given that the Protheans, Turians, Asari, Quarians, Salarians etc were not, gives even more gravitas to how long they have been around and how many species they must have wiped out.

 

Also it is relatively easy to control a bunch of robots. Their thinking is controlled by code, and however complicated is relatively, extremely easy to replicate and adjust. With an organic species it is much, much more difficult, and the Collectors did show much more intelligence than the human husks we had seen.

 

The Prothean mystery was solved in the first game. They were destroyed and killed but gave the next cycle a chance. Having the Collectors be Protheans is a change and it wasn't needed. It really didn't add much. It gives some body horror but the Reapers are already going to kill everyone. They are liquefying humans and pumping them into a mechanical body.

 

That not all species are chosen just made Humans special in a story where they used to be new kids on the block struggling to get respect. In the first game it was a particular human who was special and it had nothing to do with him being human.

 

As for controlling organics or synthetics, it is different but doesn't apply to the Collectors. The Collectors are not Indoctrinated, but were bred and altered for a particular purpose, just like the Keepers.

 

 

 

 

 

And it's another clue to what the Reapers purpose might be.

 

 but that is completely the wrong way to tell a story. We see the collectors as a hint and a clue of what the Reapers true purpose is before getting the bigger reveal of them constructing a Reaper at the end of the second game. It's about mystery and building up the story to the reveal.

 

 

We know one hell of a lot more about them than the collectors. We know about their origins, how they were created, their war with the quarians, how they reproduce, the fact that they were working with the Reapers throughout the first game. At the start of ME2 then the collectors are deliberately a big mystery which the player gradually unravels. The illusive man thinks the reapers are behind the abductions but this isn't confirmed for a while.

 

What clue to what purpose? We already knew from Vigil and the Keepers that they can reformat organic races for a purpose. What is the mystery? What is the reveal? What good is knowing the Collectors were Protheans? It's just to make you say "oh wow" but it has no significance.

[Natureguy85]

Natureguy look:
http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/61218367

 

Right, so the writer had to specifically say outside of the story that the Collectors had more than one ship because the actual game did not support that in the least bit.

[Dean_the_Young]

We found out they were turned into collectors. That is different than being destroyed and is different to the origins of the Geth. They were actually quite different to human husks. They were tasked with activities that required intelligence like trade, abduction, interstellar travel (and presumably maintenance), along with constructing a Reaper. And it's another clue to what the Reapers purpose might be.

 

 

And they were puppet-controlled to do all those things. That's less interesting than using Saren as a proxy to direct the Geth- at least Saren had a viewpoint and beliefs independent of the Reapers. The Collectors have none. Like Mordin says, they don't even have culture.

 

The Collectors would be different from husks if they did anything significantly different from husks that husks weren't capable of. Standing around menacingly while Harbinger speaks on the telephone isn't beyond what the husks already do off-screen.

 

 

 

 

You said yourself... "What the Collectors showed was the Reaper's preservationist tendencies.... but those were already demonstrated by the reveal of the Reapers as species-boxes. That would apply even if the Geth were the builders of the human Reaper."... but that is completely the wrong way to tell a story. We see the collectors as a hint and a clue of what the Reapers true purpose is before getting the bigger reveal of them constructing a Reaper at the end of the second game. It's about mystery and building up the story to the reveal.

 

 

And it doesn't require the Collectors to tell. The same function can also be told by the Keepers, or the Geth. The Collectors, as a faction, don't uniquely address this subject- which is why it's not a strong justification for them.

 

 

I don't want to get into this too much because I don't think it is actually important to this discussion, but if only one in 10, or 20 or even more species is fit to fulfill the Reapers needs then it clearly makes them feel more ominous and much older than they would otherwise.

 

 

Whether they choose one in twenty or one in a hundred doesn't really change if the Cycles have been going on for billions of years. Considering that ME2 introduced the 50k estimate as a standard, it's time, not selectivity, that indicates the magnitutde of the galactic genocides.

 

I was talking about indoctrination in organics versus controlling an artificial intelligence. It has nothing to do with intelligence levels but simply the structure and medium of the mind.

 

 

The point still applies- the Collectors are basically VIs. They're dominated and controlled by the tech, if we listen to Mordin. They're cyborg slaves, lacking the individuality and culture to require indoctrination.

 

 

 

We know one hell of a lot more about them than the collectors. We know about their origins, how they were created, their war with the quarians, how they reproduce, the fact that they were working with the Reapers throughout the first game. At the start of ME2 then the collectors are deliberately a big mystery which the player gradually unravels. The illusive man thinks the reapers are behind the abductions but this isn't confirmed for a while.

 

 

Except we didn't know much about any of that in ME1, because even the Quarians don't understand the geth or how they work- hence the taboo on reasearch. What we knew from ME1 was completely irrelevant to what we learned in ME2 of what Geth were, in practice- how they thought, how they viewed things, how they even identified.

 

The Collectors never even got that much when they were retroactively created because there was nothing to truly discover about them- because they aren't a 'them', an identity to be understood, but soul-less meat puppets that happened to be cloned from Prothean DNA after the genocide of the species. A fact which had no bearing on ME2's plot, let alone the series finale.

 

Knowing less about the Collectors when they're just introduced doesn't really amount to much when they're so extremely shallow.

[MrFob]

Natureguy look:
http://www.gamefaqs....fect-3/61218367

 

Hey, thanks for posting this, I haven't seen this before and it gave me a really good laugh!

 

Question: How could the collectors ever have been a serious threat to humanity?

Answer by Mac:

Answer A) They had more than one ship.

Comment:

What? Where? Were they all out when we attacked the base? Also, if so, aren't they still around and would they not still be a threat? Maybe killing the collector general was enough to make them harmless? If so, why didn't they set up more ships to defend that absolutely vital position, which we conquered with one frigate and 12 people? Why was none of this even hinted at in any way in the game?

This poses so many more questions than it answers!

 

Answer B ) They would eventually have had a human reaper.

Comment:

Well, according to your story Mac, they would have needed billions of humans to finish that reaper and in order to get them, they would have already needed to defeat humanity on a larger scale before they have the reaper so this doesn't answer the question at all.

 

 

Haha wow, this little twitter post just goes to show again how awful this "writer" really is.

[Iakus]

Hey, thanks for posting this, I haven't seen this before and it gave me a really good laugh!

 

Question: How could the collectors ever have been a serious threat to humanity?

Answer by Mac:

Answer A) They had more than one ship.

Comment:

What? Where? Were they all out when we attacked the base? Also, if so, aren't they still around and would they not still be a threat? Maybe killing the collector general was enough to make them harmless? If so, why didn't they set up more ships to defend that absolutely vital position, which we conquered with one frigate and 12 people? Why was none of this even hinted at in any way in the game?

This poses so many more questions than it answers!

 

Answer B ) They would eventually have had a human reaper.

Comment:

Well, according to your story Mac, they would have needed billions of humans to finish that reaper and in order to get them, they would have already needed to defeat humanity on a larger scale before they have the reaper so this doesn't answer the question at all.

 

 

Haha wow, this little twitter post just goes to show again how awful this "writer" really is.

And why ME2's story was cr*p.  had great characters, sure.  But there was NOTHING holding it together.

[Addictress]

Right, so the writer had to specifically say outside of the story that the Collectors had more than one ship because the actual game did not support that in the least bit.

Lol

It's reading comprehension. Reading between the lines. People who got it were proven right. Ha

[Addictress]

There's a lot of stupid crap in Mass effect 2.
I just thought it seemed obvious there was more than one ship.
Also I think he enemies are cool, and GENERALLY fit well on the path to the reapers finale.

But yeah there's a lot of stupid plot holes in between.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Of course the Collectors had more than one ship. It was confirmed years ago by WoG, we hear and later see another one from James and in a canon Mass Effect movie. We see more show up for the ME3 MP and are given a canon explanation for their existence.

 

Also, since they are being talked about may as well post one of my favorite theories so far:

http://forum.bioware...ack-ark-theory/

[Addictress]

They didn't need to defeat all of humanity first to build the reaper before the main reaper forces arrive. Once the reapers arrived, then the reapers would help fill in the rest of the pods.

So they started a little earlier than the reapers. I don't know, pre-production? Setup? Warming up some pods? Like you all said, the reapers were rift around the corner. It's not an outrageous idea to just start harvesting some early.

Over-extending position and making themselves vulnerable? Well they had a secret relay and suicidal debris field to cover their ass. At this point it's just the basic "videogamey villain underestimating mighty protagonist" trope common in most games.

[sjsharp2011]

I love Garak. He is my favorite character.

I don't think DS9 was the best (Voyager holds that spot for me), but it was a lot better than most people give it credit for.

'It is easy to be a saint in Paradise.'

tbh I think everyone has their faves though TNG being mine but then I love all of them and have them on DVD as well

[Pee Jae]

Shame TNG ( and Enterprise) didn't sell well enough on blu for CBS to continue with DS9 or Voyager. TNG looks so good in HD.

 

Oh, um bring on that dead, storyless content, says I.

[straykat]

DS9 was my favorite. I thought it was a lot of people's favorite.

 

I'd love to see more ST, but done in that style.. Where it had more long running stories and such. TNG is cool, but self-contained episodes are kind of weak. Especially nowadays, where watching episodes back to back is more common.

[Pee Jae]

DS9 was my favorite. I thought it was a lot of people's favorite.

 

I'd love to see more ST, but done in that style.. Where it had more long running stories and such. TNG is cool, but self-contained episodes are kind of weak. Especially nowadays, where watching episodes back to back is more common.

 

I see that. I'm not really biased. I like each ST series. I think each one is different enough to stand on its own.

[von uber]

Problem I have at the moment is that something like rise of the tomb raider has better graphics and gameplay; with something like life is strange having better characters and story.
Also, from all accounts the witcher 3 is a bit of a marvel.

So I am struggling a little to see where Bioware are going to go.

DS9 was brilliant as they were able to develop characters and story arcs from season to season, with the fixed setting allowing characters to grow in greater depth. It also allowed them to explore much more complex political and social themes.

Obviously this is not inline with the star trek monster of the week format but I preferred it.

[Natureguy85]

Lol

It's reading comprehension. Reading between the lines. People who got it were proven right. Ha

 

Of course the Collectors had more than one ship. It was confirmed years ago by WoG, we hear and later see another one from James and in a canon Mass Effect movie. We see more show up for the ME3 MP and are given a canon explanation for their existence.

 

All of that is argument after the fact or outside sources. You didn't read between the lines but you made a reasonable assumption. You were declared right by WoG but not shown or proven right by the game.

 

 

 

They didn't need to defeat all of humanity first to build the reaper before the main reaper forces arrive. Once the reapers arrived, then the reapers would help fill in the rest of the pods.

So they started a little earlier than the reapers. I don't know, pre-production? Setup? Warming up some pods? Like you all said, the reapers were rift around the corner. It's not an outrageous idea to just start harvesting some early.

Over-extending position and making themselves vulnerable? Well they had a secret relay and suicidal debris field to cover their ass. At this point it's just the basic "videogamey villain underestimating mighty protagonist" trope common in most games.

 

Why should they start early? What is the value? All it does is expose them and ultimately get them killed.

[sjsharp2011]

Shame TNG ( and Enterprise) didn't sell well enough on blu for CBS to continue with DS9 or Voyager. TNG looks so good in HD.

 

Oh, um bring on that dead, storyless content, says I.

tbh I don't think DS9 and Voyager need any updating anyway as the special effect sand all that were pretty good anyway. TNG at least in it's early seasons probably did need tweaking given it was still using bits and pieces from the old TOS days. But yeah I agree I'v enot had much of a chance to watch the Bluray's yet but I do have them. I do have other things I need to get through first though.

[Cyonan]

The Collectors were able to build about half a working Reaper with the few colonies they raided in the Terminus Systems. That would suggest that, unless they've taken almost everybody in the Terminus Systems already, there isn't an actual need to hit Earth to finish the Human Reaper.

 

That would suggest that Shep was wrong about the speculation of them hitting Earth, or at least they weren't going to do it prior to the main Reaper force showing up or finishing their own Reaper.

 

DS9 was brilliant as they were able to develop characters and story arcs from season to season, with the fixed setting allowing characters to grow in greater depth. It also allowed them to explore much more complex political and social themes.

Obviously this is not inline with the star trek monster of the week format but I preferred it.

 

I think DS9 was also brilliant due to it being the first time they were really allowed to get away from Gene's idealized vision of Humanity. TNG kind of started to get away from it later on, but DS9 was allowed to do its own thing right out of the gate.

 

Unfortunately for Voyager and Enterprise they seemed to want to try to at least somewhat go back to that idealized vision. I would guess in an attempt to recapture the popularity of TNG and ToS.

[OdanUrr]

I would have to disagree about BioWare making "storyless" content. Perhaps it is a matter of whether the content is to your liking or not? Whether you perceive the writing to be coherent or flawed? The games quoted in the OP all have stories with their own strengths and weaknesses.