847 réponses à ce sujet

[prosthetic soul]

Anyone who uses the term SJW probably shouldn't bother following Bio games.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.  *draws lightsaber*

[prosthetic soul]

When he deliberately takes the more dangerous paths, just for the fun of it.. then I think he's careless about people.

 

Certainly not as bad as the rulers of WW1 though. And some of the generals. But I think he's a man who came from that world. He learned from the worst. Same with MacArthur.

This is basically a can of worms.  Do the ends justify the means, etc, etc.   Although for the record I will say Patton(I can't even spell that, sheesh) did what he was born to do.  And that is fight wars. No more, no less.  They were simply a product of their times. 

[KirkyX]

Only a sith deals in absolutes.  *draws lightsaber*

I like to think that line was intentionally oxymoronic. It has to have been, right?

 

And I'll take that fight! (And any excuse to post cool lightsaber .gifs, particularly when they involve Ahsoka.)

[Natureguy85]

This is the first I've heard of the Tracer controversy, though there have been many like it and there will be more. My issue with the poses is how childish Tracer looks.

 

However, the "butt pose" seems pretty common. "Butt" I found this hilarious.

 

http://www.comicsbea...s-lots-of-butt/

 

I'm a European Democratic Socialist - which, to be clear, actually isn't anything like Marxism in reality, but still - so we're back to agendas again. I believe in a strong welfare state, nationalised healthcare - neither particularly controversial positions where I come from - and so on.

 

The issue with completely ignoring gender as a factor is that, since the default in video games, and quite a few other varieties of media, has historically been, well, 'white and male', if gender is ignored, we'll always gravitate towards that status quo.

 

To clarify my original position: it's not that I can't enjoy games where I play as white dudes - The Witcher 3, to pull a recent example, is one of my all-time favourites, and I specifically love Geralt (I've read the books.) - but I appreciate playing as a woman because it simply isn't something I get to do very often. Hence why one of the hardest decisions I have to make when starting a new Mass Effect playthough is, 'Romance Tali, or play femshep?'.

 

Well we'd have to talk more for me to know about you, but the guy running for President here as a "democratic socialist" is most certainly a Marxist. I prefer individual liberty and free market capitalism, which today apparently are controversial positions here.

 

Anyway, my point is that if the focus is on making a character female, you'll slap some boobs on and say "done." Write a good character first and then make her female just because.

 

I'd love a Shadows of Mordor sequel. Litharial could be a good protagonist for it. In SoM she does serve mostly as a damsel in distress, but she does have the respect of her people. There's a lot of room to make her a strong character in her own story.

 

Also, this looks really cool:

 

[straykat]

I don't know much about ReCore, but it's made by some of the Metroid guys. So it'll probably be cool...at least for gameplay alone

[KirkyX]

*snip*

I think 'write good characters' is about as uncontroversial a position as you'll find anywhere.

 

And yeah, ReCore looks great. I hope they're gonna show more of it at this year's E3.

[Natureguy85]

I think 'write good characters' is about as uncontroversial a position as you'll find anywhere.

 

And yeah, ReCore looks great. I hope they're gonna show more of it at this year's E3.

 

Sure, but unfortunately it seems to get pushed down the list of priorities when it should be first.

[Cyonan]

I like to think that line was intentionally oxymoronic. It has to have been, right?

 

And I'll take that fight! (And any excuse to post cool lightsaber .gifs, particularly when they involve Ahsoka.)

 

The Star Wars universe needs more Ahsoka in general beyond a few appearances in the "Trying to replace the Clone Wars Animated Series but still not as good as it" Rebels series they're running now.

 

Actually now that I think about it, a new Star Wars story focused game which lets you play as her would be awesome.

 

You can have that idea EA, free of charge.

[Laughing_Man]

The problem with the term "SJW" is two fold:

 

First - many times the term has very little to do with justice. It's an interest group like many others, that tends to overlook the sins of its members and distract the public from noticing them by (very vocally) pointing out flaws in their opposition.

 

Note, this interest group does not preach equality and egalitarianism in general, and has no problem using the same tactics it complains about being on the receiving end of - in order to marginalize and bully their opposition, in short, ironically, the idea of double standards doesn't seem like an unfair prospect to them.

 

There is no overarching theme of honest search for truth and justice among these armchair internet warriors, just the search for vindication, the unwillingness to understand that every coin has more than one side, and that earning respect and acknowledgment is a two way street that is rarely traveled by screeching and attempting to force a totalitarian narrative through marginalization of the opposition.

 

Second - in particular as it pertains to "SJW" influence in video games, the problem is not "they are taking our vidya gamez" as the local idiot put it (did I mention marginalizing the opposition? with meaningless hyperbole no less), but rather with the flagrant disregard to the quality and merit of video games on their own right as a product or an experience, as long as they advance "the cause".

 

There seems to be a lack of care towards creating a world, a story, or a character that first makes sense, but only then has anything to do with whichever ethnic or sexual minority is on the agenda at this point.

 

In short, everything is forgiven as long as you chant the party line.

[KirkyX]

The Star Wars universe needs more Ahsoka in general beyond a few appearances in the "Trying to replace the Clone Wars Animated Series but still not as good as it" Rebels series they're running now.

 

Actually now that I think about it, a new Star Wars story focused game which lets you play as her would be awesome.

 

You can have that idea EA, free of charge.

Eh, I actually really like Rebels, but more Ahsoka is never not a good thing.

 

And I would play the **** out of that game! I actually found that I had quite a good time roleplaying an already 'established' character in The Witcher 3 - if you've read the books, you kinda already know what Geralt would do, at least in your interpretation, before you even see the convo options - so if they could emulate that experience, that'd be just fantastic.

 

Spoiler

(Hat tip to Varjopihlaja.)

 

They could either set it in the gap between Clone Wars and Rebels, or have it follow up her fight with Vader--honestly, I'd be totally down for either, though my burning desire to know what happens to her immediately after the fight - like, where those temple stairs lead - and beyond, definitely tempts me towards the latter.

[KirkyX]

Sure, but unfortunately it seems to get pushed down the list of priorities when it should be first.

It's all good as long as we've got Elfroot to collect and shards to find, right?

[Cyonan]

Eh, I actually really like Rebels, but more Ahsoka is never not a good thing.

 

And I would play the **** out of that game! I actually found that I had quite a good time roleplaying an already 'established' character in The Witcher 3 - if you've read the books, you kinda already know what Geralt would do, at least in your interpretation, before you even see the convo options - so if they could emulate that experience, that'd be just fantastic.

 

They could either set it in the gap between Clone Wars and Rebels, or have it follow up her fight with Vader--honestly, I'd be totally down for either, though my burning desire to know what happens to her immediately after the fight - like, where those temple stairs lead - and beyond, definitely tempts me towards the latter.

 

I do still like Rebels, but it's not as good as Clone Wars.

 

I actually think we need more good Star Wars games in general. The Force Unleashed set up some great lightsaber combat mechanics that nobody has really capitalized on. Instead, we got a Battlefield clone that's not as good as the previous games from a decade ago but managed to look really pretty.

[KirkyX]

I do still like Rebels, but it's not as good as Clone Wars.

 

I actually think we need more good Star Wars games in general. The Force Unleashed set up some great lightsaber combat mechanics that nobody has really capitalized on. Instead, we got a Battlefield clone that's not as good as the previous games from a decade ago but managed to look really pretty.

We desperately do. The last truly fantastic Star Wars game I can think of is KotOR II - don't get me wrong, I like the first TFU, but only really for the combat, as you say - and that was, what, 2004?

 

At least it's not as bad as the situation with Star Trek games--we haven't had a good one of those since, I dunno, Bridge Commander? And never anything approaching the quality of the best Star Wars games.

[slimgrin]

Anyone who uses the term SJW probably shouldn't bother following Bio games.

 

Their games, thus far, have been SJW lite. I can handle that.

[KirkyX]

*snip*

Seeing as how my response to this would more or less revolve around my having a fundamentally different position on what 'us' supposed 'SJWs' actually represent, and pointing out that the worst excesses of the 'other side' - I used to just go with GamerGate, but it's more nebulous these days - are far worse than simply holding a 'disregard to the quality and merit of video games on their own right as a product or an experience, as long as they advance "the cause"' - which, of course, is something I'd disagree that we in fact, have - I might as well not bother?

 

Oh, and it's a mite rich to complain that I've been 'marginalizing the opposition' by simplifying their position when your entire argument is based around claiming that those who care about 'social justice' are incapable of actually appreciating quality in video game design and plotting, blinded as we are by our agenda*--something that, demonstrably, is not the case.

 

...

 

*This is, of course, compounded by the fact that those arguing this position would appear to consider themselves agenda-less - or, at the very least, that their agenda is purely in support of increased creative freedom, when they themselves so frequently criticise the creative choices of supposed 'SJW' game devs - which is equally daft.

[Natureguy85]

Seeing as how my response to this would more or less revolve around my having a fundamentally different position on what 'us' supposed 'SJWs' actually represent, and pointing out that the worst excesses of the 'other side' - I used to just go with GamerGate, but it's more nebulous these days - are far worse than simply holding a 'disregard to the quality and merit of video games on their own right as a product or an experience, as long as they advance "the cause"' - which, of course, is something I'd disagree that we in fact, have - I might as well not bother?

 

Oh, and it's a mite rich to complain that I've been 'marginalizing the opposition' by simplifying their position when your entire argument is based around claiming that those who care about 'social justice' are incapable of actually appreciating quality in video game design and plotting, blinded as we are by our agenda*--something that, demonstrably, is not the case.

 

...

 

*This is, of course, compounded by the fact that those arguing this position would appear to consider themselves agenda-less - or, at the very least, that their agenda is purely in support of increased creative freedom, when they themselves so frequently criticise the creative choices of supposed 'SJW' game devs - which is equally daft.

 

Well, it depends on if a certain thing fits within the setting and the tone of the story or if it feels shoved in where it doesn't belong.

 

Whenever I talk about stuff like this, I always try to make it clear that I'm referring to "the movement" and allow that individuals may have different goals, aims, and tactics. While you and people you know might be exceptions, TA accurately describes the broader "movement."

[Laughing_Man]

*snip*

 

There is a group that fits my description rather well, and my post is aimed at them. Whether you belong to this group or not, is irrelevant.

 

My argument is based on facts, and on my observation of the periodic screeching of a group that takes offense to just about anything, no matter how flimsy the connection is to the reality of the matter, and produces fake outrage on demand.

 

Doesn't matter if it's Anita Sarkeesian and her herd of tamblrinas, or similar, the idea is the same.

 

Many of those distinguished individuals don't really care or enjoy video games, but they get their jollies and in many cases their income from producing said fake outrage. (which in turn allows certain clickbait "gaming sites" to get in on the feast as well, it's a well oiled machine)

 

For them video games are not specific products aimed at specific parts of a crowd, rather a potential battlefield and an opportunity to strike for their cause. Collateral damage? They don't really care. All video games should cater to their taste no matter how tiny is their specific niche, or else.

 

I couldn't care less about the sexual orientation of characters in a video game. That said, things should make sense and should allow for a measure of realism, characters should be well written characters first, not sexual orientation check boxes with a side dish of plot and characterization.

 

In-game logic should be followed, and not disregarded just to include the special snowflake of the day.

 

Do that, and I won't say a word on "representation", I wouldn't really care.

 

In real life, I care about my friends, no matter their skin color, gender, or sexual orientation.

In the larger scheme of things I care about other things more than the causes of the "SJW" crowd,

and forcing the issue through media is not really going to change that, I'm just going to voice my objections, and avoid what feels and looks like a preachy product.

[ModernAcademic]

So think Bioware will focus on story? Or go all DA:I and make a bunch of dead storyless content?

 

 

Recently, I've watched this video published in April 10th (you can click HERE), where some of the main writers from Bioware's original staff explain what's going on since EA took over and...well, I'm afraid I don't know how Andromeda will turn out with most of the creative staff having quit the company.

 

But one thing is for sure: Andromeda will DEFINITELY be VERY different from a Mass Effect game. And I'm not sure if this can be interpreted in a good way.

[Seraphim24]

I've lost track. For purposes of this thread we're defining DA2 and Skyrim as non-RPGs while NWN is an RPG?

 

I said DA:I was DA2 with a DA2 interpretation of "Skyrim" taped on to it, I wasn't making a commentary on Skyrim itself, or even on Skyrim-taped to DA2, although it is implied that it was different from Skyrim itself.

[rashie]

I do still like Rebels, but it's not as good as Clone Wars.

 

I actually think we need more good Star Wars games in general. The Force Unleashed set up some great lightsaber combat mechanics that nobody has really capitalized on. Instead, we got a Battlefield clone that's not as good as the previous games from a decade ago but managed to look really pretty.

If an action jedi game, I wish they'd look a bit further back than just The Force Unleashed, to the Jedi Knight series, which imo far surpasses it in gameplay.

 

But I suppose it has long since faded into obscurity with the last game there being Academy in 2003.

[Addictress]

things should make sense and should allow for a measure of realism, characters should be well written characters first, not sexual orientation check boxes with a side dish of plot and characterization.

In-game logic should be followed, and not disregarded just to include the special snowflake of the day.

Do that, and I won't say a word on "representation", I wouldn't really care.

In real life, I care about my friends, no matter their skin color, gender, or sexual orientation.
In the larger scheme of things I care about other things more than the causes of the "SJW" crowd,
and forcing the issue through media is not really going to change that, I'm just going to voice my objections, and avoid what feels and looks like a preachy product.

This. Although you briefly go down a path, where I disagree, which completely rejects the idea that representation is sometimes helpful, when done in certain ways.

DA:I was a bit too preachy and "check boxes checked" for me. Even though I consider myself a SJW, and I do believe we need more representation of minorities in media. I just think the representation must arise from a philosophical source of understanding behind the writers....I don't know how to describe it. It must be born from a deeper level than just going down a checklist, as you said, making sure tokens are all there. Story and character must supercede all.

[straykat]

Those clone war cartoons were good in general. I don't just like Ahsoka. I'd happily have a whole game of smugglers and bounty hunters too. Lots of fun characters on that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I know, right? The term in isolation seems pretty complimentary, to me.

Given any person's own definition of the words therein, I find it hard to believe that same person would oppose the work of a social justice warrior.

Who openly opposes social justice?

[ModernAcademic]

Given any person's own definition of the words therein, I find it hard to believe that same person would oppose the work of a social justice warrior.

Who openly opposes social justice?

 

People who know there are individuals who borrow a politically correct, moralising speech without understanding or caring for the real meaning behind the words. Much like politicians. They always speak in the name of the people. When have they ever ruled FOR the people?

 

A lot of those self-appointed SJW pretend to defend a social cause to disguise their frustration at their inability to live in society or to deal with some of its aspects. For example, the constant fighting they have with their family. Being bullied in school because they're fat or nerds. The feact they have trouble standing up for themselves.

 

These people have A LOT of self-esteem problems. Most of them never learned to accept who they are. But they are spoiled and want to feel on top just for once in their life. So they create an alter ego online, the so-called SJW, and spew words they read in blogs, twitter accounts and other media with a righteousness that's meant to intimidate and not to enlighten. Because they can't attack their targets IRL, they attack random people online who are "alright to attack" because the bloggers and other influential people tell them they are "allowed" to attack people who fit into a specific profile. 

 

The thing is most SJW are people who live behind a computer screen and have never engaged in any real action to defend victims of domestic abuse, sexual abuse, physical violence motivated by prejudice and other serious problems. 

 

And most SJW continue to have problems adjusting to real life, which makes their speeches something that's only to be listened by others, but not for they themselves to practise it in their everyday life. This is why they lost credibility over time.

 

Using a speech to attack people, to further divide them into factions, rather than to enlighten and promote true understanding between different philosophical viewpoints is dishonest. To verbally attack others just as people have attacked you in order to feel better is dishonest. To defend a social group is better than the rest while denying rights to another is dishonest. Fundamental human rights are for EVERYONE. Denying that truth is promoting DISCRIMINATION AND SEGREGATION, the very two things social movements have been trying so hard to fight ever since the beginning of the 19th century.

 

It isn't social justice, it's a bunch of cowards subverting the original speeches used in the first social movements in defense of minorities to satisfy their selfish, petty whims. And it's wrong, because it promotes further discrimination rather than putting an end to it. It's verbal violence legitimized by false authorities: the so-called social justice gurus who tell the flock who to attack and how to attack. 

 

If you ARE a social justice warrior, you'll go out there and ACT. You'll end discrimination in your everyday life with EXEMPLARY ATTITUDES. You won't stalk a public forum or tumblr looking to pick up random fights with strangers. THAT is why the number of people who see RIGHT THROUGH SJWs is increasing. And they simply won't buy any more of their BS.

[Elhanan]

Seems to be a rather biased view, IMO.

Personally, I hope for balance in most everything; do not mind those seeking social justice, but tend to oppose most activists and extremists pro & con. And if Bioware games tweek one's sensibilities to the point where they believe that the content is extreme, the issue may be with the one perceiving a problem; not Bioware.