11 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Greetings,

 

I am sick, tired and annoyed by the Yo-Yo Effect. The Yo-Yo effect is a term for the Hook & Tackle + Leaping Shot combo. After playing as an Archer Artificer and Archer Tempest, I am completely done with that.

 

Personally, the Yo-Yo Effect sucks for a couple of reasons:-

 

1) You end up spamming it over and over again. This makes playing the game very boring.

 

2) Your character or your followers look absolutely ridiculous doing it. You leap forward via grapple and then leap backward while firing an arrow. The leaping gets really silly when you mentally superimpose the Mario leaping sound effect with it.

 

3) It negates the whole point of being an Archer Rogue since an Archer is supposed to be someone who attacks from a distance and the Yo-Yo Effect makes the Archer a melee combatant since Leaping Shot's highest damage is achieved at close range, hence the combo with Hook & Tackle.

 

4) The biggest reason it sucks is because its too good of a combo. Its a lot like pre-patch 1.10 Spirit Blade, Fade Shield and Clean Burn.

 

5) It makes you fall of cliffs and balcony edges a lot which takes a huge chunk of health away from your character. This gets really annoying in the Deep Roads.

 

I know this is not a very popular opinion since many people love the Hook & Tackle + Leaping Shot combo but I hate it now. Am I the only one who feels this way ?

 

So now I would like to make an Archer that does not rely on the Yo-Yo Effect. The best way to do this is to use Archer Assassin since it doesn't have to rely on the Yo-Yo Effect to be powerful. I would like some help in making such a build. The conditions are simple - Either no Leaping Shot or no Hook & Tackle or no to both of them.

[jhood_shsu]

try something like

 

 http://<a href='http...Rogue - Archery

 

it still has leaping shot, but its not required to map.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

try something like

 

 http://Rogue - Archery

 

it still has leaping shot, but its not required to map.

 

Your link is broken. It leads back to my post.

[AlanC9]

You're not the only one. I never even considered using that combo on my Archer Assassin myself.

You'll probably still want to keep Leaping Shot mapped since it's an easy stamina refill, though. And in the late game, pick up Dance of Death. You can then open up with a Full Draw which is free if you one-shot something. (This can be fun with a bow which causes enemies to explode, like Grunsmann's Bow.). Though a 2-point passive hurts.

You'll have two ranged detonators, so plan accordingly.

I found that I liked keeping Stealth mapped to de-link stealthing from Leaping Shot.

Optimal range will be a bit weird, since you'll have a suite of abilities with different optimal ranges.

[PapaCharlie9]

I only yo-yo Artificers. Every other Archer I've run has not use Hook&Tackle.

It's not necessary to dump on one thing in order to try another. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with yo-yo style. If you are tired of it, try another style, simple as that.

Of course you should keep Leaping Shot. Just deal with the possibility of falling off a cliff. Despite that drawback, it is too useful an archery skill not to have, particularly for buffs that are fueled by hits or crits. Not to mention a free move to stealth.

That said, ultimately, all Archers run the risk of getting bored. Even the all-powerful Assassin Archer. Archery by definition is a ranged combat style and standing back from the fight and plinking away does lead to some boredom, it is endemic to the style. Mages mitigate the boredom factor by having a number of skill trees, and therefore visual effects, to choose from. Archer only got one. Well, maybe two. Not counting specialization.

Assassin Archer is the easiest build in the world. It all revolves around MoD and Knife In The Shadows. Once you have perma-stealth (Leaping Shot upgrade helps with this) and Knife in the Shadows, you stop crafting for Crit Chance. You can pour all your mats into Crit Damage, because every hit is going to be a critical anyway.

You can start with this DW build and just swap in the Archery skills you want:

http://forum.bioware...e-all-the-time/

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I only yo-yo Artificers. Every other Archer I've run has not use Hook&Tackle.

It's not necessary to dump on one thing in order to try another. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with yo-yo style. If you are tired of it, try another style, simple as that.

Of course you should keep Leaping Shot. Just deal with the possibility of falling off a cliff. Despite that drawback, it is too useful an archery skill not to have, particularly for buffs that are fueled by hits or crits. Not to mention a free move to stealth.

That said, ultimately, all Archers run the risk of getting bored. Even the all-powerful Assassin Archer. Archery by definition is a ranged combat style and standing back from the fight and plinking away does lead to some boredom, it is endemic to the style. Mages mitigate the boredom factor by having a number of skill trees, and therefore visual effects, to choose from. Archer only got one. Well, maybe two. Not counting specialization.

Assassin Archer is the easiest build in the world. It all revolves around MoD and Knife In The Shadows. Once you have perma-stealth (Leaping Shot upgrade helps with this) and Knife in the Shadows, you stop crafting for Crit Chance. You can pour all your mats into Crit Damage, because every hit is going to be a critical anyway.

You can start with this DW build and just swap in the Archery skills you want:

http://forum.bioware...e-all-the-time/

 

Thanks for the advice. What do you think about this build :- http://www.rpg-gamin...221319413516641

 

This is for an Elf, hence 31 skill points. The empty slot is for Mark of the Rift or Aegis of the Rift

[PapaCharlie9]

Thanks for the advice. What do you think about this build :- http://www.rpg-gamin...221319413516641
 
This is for an Elf, hence 31 skill points. The empty slot is for Mark of the Rift or Aegis of the Rift

That looks good. The Archery tree is identical to the one I'm using now with my Artificer. The Assassin tree is spot on. Sabotage is fine, though see below. Subterfuge may go a bit deeper than necessary, but nothing bad about having Armor Penetration.

You should consider taking Throwing Blades from Sabotage, with the Precision Targeting upgrade. If you find yourself at melee distance against a single enemy, like a dragon, the stacking damage becomes huge. Even huger if you are in the flanking cone.

As an alternative, consider moving some of the points out of Subterfuge into Double Daggers. That's right, DD for an Archer. A couple of points on the right side give you Dance of Death, for a Stamina regen buff.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

That looks good. The Archery tree is identical to the one I'm using now with my Artificer. The Assassin tree is spot on. Sabotage is fine, though see below. Subterfuge may go a bit deeper than necessary, but nothing bad about having Armor Penetration.

You should consider taking Throwing Blades from Sabotage, with the Precision Targeting upgrade. If you find yourself at melee distance against a single enemy, like a dragon, the stacking damage becomes huge. Even huger if you are in the flanking cone.

As an alternative, consider moving some of the points out of Subterfuge into Double Daggers. That's right, DD for an Archer. A couple of points on the right side give you Dance of Death, for a Stamina regen buff.

 

The thing is if  I drop my points from Subterfuge I miss out on Armor Penetration (the Ambush passive). So how would you proceed ?

 

There is also something else that I am wondering - Why don't you recommend Evade for Archers ? Is it because of Leaping Shot and Stealth, both of which can help you escape ?

 

Lastly, why don't you recommend using Full Draw ? I mean in my previous playthrough a Stealth + Full Draw combo is sufficient to one shot kill many mages and archers, or take a very significant damage out of them.

[PapaCharlie9]

The thing is if  I drop my points from Subterfuge I miss out on Armor Penetration (the Ambush passive). So how would you proceed ?
 
There is also something else that I am wondering - Why don't you recommend Evade for Archers ? Is it because of Leaping Shot and Stealth, both of which can help you escape ?
 
Lastly, why don't you recommend using Full Draw ? I mean in my previous playthrough a Stealth + Full Draw combo is sufficient to one shot kill many mages and archers, or take a very significant damage out of them.

You can craft for Armor Penetration if you really want it, but personally I prefer Sundering, since it helps the whole party and it stacks.

I don't usually recommend Evade for an Archer because 1) it takes an active slot and 2) Leaping Shot can serve double duty and provide an escape from a melee situation.

That said, nothing wrong with taking Evade if you don't like using Leaping Shot for anything but big/broad enemies, where every shot will hit. Not sure what active you would drop for it, though, and the points could be better used taking Throwing Blades. All things being equal, I prefer damage dealing actives to defensive ones.

I don't recommend Full Draw because 1) it takes an active slot (there's a pattern here), 2) I usually want to spend the points elsewhere, and 3) the stamina and cooldown costs are high and the animation is super slow, which ultimately limits its damage output over the long run. The peak damage looks great for the ability, but you have to consider the opportunity cost as well.

Nothing wrong with having Full Draw prior to specialization (though again, I'd spend the skill points for Throwing Blades) and for sleeping dragons, it's pretty awesome as an opener with First Blood, from a Flanking position, with Mighty Offense tonic, but for everything else, I'd rather have an ability I can use more frequently, even if the per use max damage is lower.

With a properly buffed build (cooldowns and stamina), I bet I could equal or exceed the damage output of Full Draw with either Throwing Blades up close or Long Shot at range.

[AlanC9]

Well, most of the Full Draw stamina cost comes back if you have Dance of Death and really do one-shot someone. I prefer it as an opener so I can save Long Shot for a detonator.

[Addictress]

I never used tackle to close, I used evasion (the purple one) with "move through shadows" upgrade. It was cool because I'd stealth, instantly teleport or slide close to my enemy in a flash, then backflip away. In addition, evade has almost no cooldown, so then I'd just teleport around the field, give myself more distance. It became less of a yo-yo and more of a shadow assassin of a 5th dimension.

[arkngt]

I never used tackle to close, I used evasion (the purple one) with "move through shadows" upgrade. It was cool because I'd stealth, instantly teleport or slide close to my enemy in a flash, then backflip away. In addition, evade has almost no cooldown, so then I'd just teleport around the field, give myself more distance. It became less of a yo-yo and more of a shadow assassin of a 5th dimension.

 

That sounds rather fun. I only ever play Dual Wielders as I've found other builds quite boring to micromanage, but I might try that for my next playthrough.