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[Inquisitor Tiber Trevelyan]

Background

 

We've seen it so far on at least two occations (possibly three depending on what happened with Hawke/Stroud/Alistar/Loghain at the end of the Inquisitor's fade adventure after the Adamant Fortress battle.) We know that Divine Justinia died while physically being in the fade. Something like this has probably not happened many times since the veil was constructed. We also know from DAO - Awakening that the blood mage "The Baroness" entered the fade through the use of blood magic and lived there for a very long time (which likely made her physical body die). The Inquisitor meets Divine Justinia again in the fade during the second visit and this time Justinia is a spirit.

 

As mentioned before, the Warden Commander/Hero of Ferelden meets the Baroness in the fade several years after her disappearance. When she again uses blood magic to pull everybody close to her back into the physical world she's no longer human. She's a pride demon.

We know through various conversations with Solas that Demons and Spirits are the same, but with different purposes, demons being corrupted or aggressive forms of spirits.

 

We also know from the Avvar tribe in Jaws of Hakkon that when spirits die they often get "reborn". Solas states something similar in his "All New, Faded for Her" quest, when he states that the energy of the spirit will go back to the fade and so the spirit might be reborn in time but the memories of it's past will probably be gone.

 

 

My theory is this:

 

When a person dies who is physically in the fade, their essence or soul becomes and lives on as a spirit. Whatever ideas the person believed in/lived by or represented most as a physical person is likely what type of spirit/demon he or she will become, which is probably why Justinia became a spirit of faith (probably) and the Baroness a demon of pride.

 

As we know, if a demon/spirit dies and get reborn it is very likely that it will no longer remember it's past, so if this is true then a spirit's death will explain why it's "alive" but has no memories of living and being a person in the physical world. I believe this is the biggest reason for Solas disliking the killing and abuse of demons and spirits. He recognizes they were ones ordinary (mostly elven) people. There was no veil before he created it so dying probably meant becoming a spirit/demon for everyone back then. 

 

Thoughts? 

[Inquisitor Tiber Trevelyan]

No thoughts at all?

[Ashagar]

I wonder, Justice mentioned that the souls of the dead pass though the fade and go somewhere else but the spirits don't know where. Given that is it not possible it that they were so full of faith or pride that they attracted a spirit or demon impressed on them and took on their features and personality?

[Evil Asch]

 

 The Inquisitor meets Divine Justinia again in the fade during the second visit and this time Justinia is a spirit

 

You're assuming the spirit and Justinia are the same being. That's deliberately not confirmed (though to me it seemed strongly implied that it was a spirit of faith that was inspired by Justinia) to the point that Lelliana herself isn't certain. At the very least it's a huge assumption and a big leap of faith.
 

We also know from the Avvar tribe in Jaws of Hakkon that when spirits die they often get "reborn". Solas states something similar in his "All New, Faded for Her" quest, when he states that the energy of the spirit will go back to the fade and so the spirit might be reborn in time but the memories of it's past will probably be gone.

 

 

I disagree, a wisdom spirit might form in the same place but it would not be the same spirit with the same memories and personality. Actual conversation regarding Solas' friend (https://youtu.be/Dcz3IyUFE3A?t=376):

Inquisitor: What happens when a spirit dies?

Solas: It isn't the same as for mortals. The energy of spirits returns to the fade. If the idea giving a spirit form is strong, or if the memory has shaped other spirits, it may someday rise again.

Inquisitor: You're saying your friend might come back?

Solas: No, not really. A spirit's natural state is peaceful semi-existence. It is rare to be able to reflect reality. Something similar may reform one day, but it might have a different personality. It would likely not remember me. It would not be the friend I knew.

 

When a person dies who is physically in the fade, their essence or soul becomes and lives on as a spirit. Whatever ideas the person believed in/lived by or represented most as a physical person is likely what type of spirit/demon he or she will become, which is probably why Justinia became a spirit of faith (probably) and the Baroness a demon of pride.

 

I don't think the person becomes a spirit I think it's far more likely based on what we know of the fade from Solas, Cole's existence and established lore that the memory and reflection of a person physically in the fade creates a spirit/s. Since, according to Solas, the natural state of a spirit is semi-existence and it takes a very strong memory or reflection of reality to change that, it seems way more likely that instead of becoming spirits the existence and death of a mortal in the fade would create spirits due to the proximity of reality and strong associated memories.

Solas dislikes the mistreatment and malignment of spirits for the same reason slavery and the Qun ****** him off it's the unfair subjugation and bondage of a complex sentient being.

[Gervaise]

However, there is also Mythal to consider.  She would have effectively have died in contact with the Fade if not within it, since there was no Veil at that time.   She lived on as wisp but it would seem with her identity in tact.    The fact that elves continued to remember and worship her may have had something to do with this.

 

When we visit the Avaar we see a series of murals showing how a spirit/god can be summoned into a mortal creature in order to assist the tribe.    If the mortal vessel is slain, the spirit returns to the Fade.   The tribe then keep on praying for their return strongly enough, eventually is will be "reborn" with, it would seem, the same identity as before.

 

We are informed that if will kill the dragon that is the host for Hakkon, this will allow the spirit to be released to return to the Fade and presumably in the future be summoned again should a tribe require assistance. 

 

So there is clearly some sort of reincarnation process involved concerning powerful spirits, that allows them to retain a sense of identity (possibly because they have a name rather than just an attribute).    What if that is also the case for the soul/spirit of a mortal in certain circumstances?     In one part of the Chant the Fade/Maker is referred to as the Wellspring and from its emerald waters doth life begin anew.     I think anything is possible at present.    In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that was intentional on the part of the writers, leaving their options open for future plots.

[Evil Asch]

The Evanuris are clearly a special case based on their power in the unified reality/fade alone. It's also implied that elves are not similar to humans and dwarves regarding thier nature / origin. The debate around elf-blooded characters cites some interesting developer interviews where basically its said the no matter how much elf an elf blooded humanoid has if they aren't pure elf they won't have elf characteristics physically expressed (Feynriel is apparently a weird one off). They also state that a character with a dwarf parent would be a taller dwarf or shorter human whereas, again, elf-blooded humans don't (aside from Feynrial who is also a Dreamer) have physical characteristics similar to elves.

So assuming that the origin and nature of elves really is that different then elves in particular may be linked to the Fade in a way that facilitates some version of reincarnation hence Mythal's ability to resist death and bond with Flemeth. Then again, Mythal didn't really survive as herself and it appears to be a singular occurrence.

[Daerog]

Not all souls go beyond the Fade, some do get trapped in the Fade.

The Baroness was an abomination... maybe that is the fate of those who live as abominations, like Anders. Anders said it was hard to tell where he ended and Justice began. Give it another decade and they'd probably be "one." Since souls and spirits act differently, maybe this kind of messes up the metaphysics and a soul just acts like a spirit until it is dispersed?

[Evil Asch]

Not all souls go beyond the Fade, some do get trapped in the Fade.

The Baroness was an abomination... maybe that is the fate of those who live as abominations, like Anders. Anders said it was hard to tell where he ended and Justice began. Give it another decade and they'd probably be "one." Since souls and spirits act differently, maybe this kind of messes up the metaphysics and a soul just acts like a spirit until it is dispersed?

Ooooh sucks to be Wynn

[The Ascendant]

Wynne sent the spirit of Faith that was possessing her and keeping her alive into Evangeline to save her. 

Dying whilst in the Fade physically no doubt has severe consequences. But we haven't been able to enter the Fade physically until Adamant, and with the Anchor gone, it is unlikely the Inquisitor will be doing so again in the near future.