51 réponses à ce sujet

[Contraire]

Hesitating between 2 LI for my female Tabris (it’s my first Origins playthrough), Zevran or Leliana.

 

Alistair is a big no-no because my  Inez Tabris isn’t going to bring back a human male to her father or risk giving her children round ears, and a variety of other reasons that do boil down to these two, mostly

 

Zevran:

Pros:

- elf (and not the self-loathing kind)

- charming

- lots of good sex in Tabris’ future

- unlikely to make racist remarks at Tabris

- probably wouldn’t get on Tabris’ case for being a soft touch 98% of the time or her rare “no, now you die” moments

Cons:

- looks weird

- Inez Tabris is a dual-wielding rogue

- kinda bored with straightmances

- “”””””exotic”””””” but platinum-haired

- don’t feel like I know him as well as Alistair+Morrigan

Other:

- imagining bringing back Zevran to meet Dad = joy (Zev not being exactly the Nice Elf Boy parents want their children to meet and Tabris both being invested in being a Good Daughter and officially ****-you-ing through social obligations)

- too charming?

- apparently Zev and Warden can adventure together in the future, which: neat, but: long term

- I should probably get to know him better

 

Leliana:

Pros:

- cute

- girl

- archer/dual-wielder combo feels nicer than DWx2

- good person

- probably also lots of good sex

- I have been spoilered: character growth depending on whether or not I “harden” her, which would prob fit my Tabris

Cons:

- not an elf so won’t share the same issues about racism (and I’ve been told she occasionally makes unsavory remarks)

- don’t feel like I know her as well as Alistair+Morrigan

Other:

- Chantry bunny

- too sweet???

- Inquisition Leliana

- I should probably get to know her better

 

 

Basically, it boils down to this: are Leli’s unsavory remarks enough of a deal-breaker that it’s better to stick with the elven option, even though he’s a guy and I’d rather romance a female this time?

 

Put another way, how can I get a feel of the characters without either locking myself in or out of their romance yet?

[vbibbi]

If you feel like a female romance this time, go for Leliana. It's interesting that she can actually have a dialogue with an elf Warden about race, while Zevran sees himself more as a Crow and less as a city elf. It sounds like a big issue is whether bringing home a male elf will be better received than a human woman. That could make an interesting conflict, if the Warden liked Leliana more but her father asked her why she couldn't like the nice elven boy she's traveling with.

[straykat]

They're both kind of good fits, but I think Leliana matters more to the overall story. Especially as a Divine. And like Tabris' mom says, Leliana is a human worth admiring. I don't think Cyrion would mind either, if he got to know her.

[robertmarilyn]

I always pick Zevran over Leliana because Leliana is crazy. Her crazy becomes even more evident in DAI.  (Actually I always romance either Zevran or Alistair). 

[straykat]

I always pick Zevran over Leliana because Leliana is crazy. Her crazy becomes even more evident in DAI.  (Actually I always romance either Zevran or Alistair). 

 

"More crazy? I thought we were all full up."

 

 

My kind of crazy though

[vbibbi]

They're both kind of good fits, but I think Leliana matters more to the overall story. Especially as a Divine. And like Tabris' mom says, Leliana is a human worth admiring. I don't think Cyrion would mind either, if he got to know her.

That's true, I forgot that the mom met Leliana in the DLC. It's kind of a nice full circle, even though no one will ever know the full story.

[straykat]

That's true, I forgot that the mom met Leliana in the DLC. It's kind of a nice full circle, even though no one will ever know the full story.

 

I'd say she even stole part of that DLC story from Tabris and mixed it with her own.

 

That is, that's how I headcanon it. Because she apparently didn't really get imprisoned in Ferelden. But it's got elements of Tabris' story. There's even a young Vaughn there, beating a servant.

[vbibbi]

I'd say she even stole part of that DLC story from Tabris and mixed it with her own.

 

That is, that's how I headcanon it. Because she apparently didn't really get imprisoned in Ferelden. But it's got elements of Tabris' story. There's even a young Vaughn there, beating a servant.

Well that entire DLC is a little half-hearted, since it's just reusing assets and altering Leliana's backstory a bit.

 

Where was she imprisoned then? Or was she not imprisoned, just killed outright? I don't recall the background on her now.

[straykat]

Well that entire DLC is a little half-hearted, since it's just reusing assets and altering Leliana's backstory a bit.

 

Where was she imprisoned then? Or was she not imprisoned, just killed outright? I don't recall the background on her now.

 

At the end of the DLC, she says the story changes depending on the audience.

 

I imagine it's Orlais though... and she tells the Warden the actual truth. That it was Chevaliers that abused her.

 

But as you can see in DA2, Sketch is pissed off at her for her stories. She doesn't tell everyone the truth. And it's gotten him in trouble. All kinds of people are after him.

[vbibbi]

At the end of the DLC, she says the story changes depending on the audience.

 

I imagine it's Orlais though... and she tells the Warden the actual truth. That it was Chevaliers that abused her.

 

But as you can see in DA2, Sketch is pissed off at her for her stories. She doesn't tell everyone the truth. And it's gotten him in trouble. All kinds of people are after him.

Oh gotcha, I thought you meant Tabris' mother wasn't imprisoned in Fereldan. Never mind.

[Deadly dwarf]

All my Wardens have ultimately ended up with Leliana.  She's pretty and sweet; though she's strongly pro-Chantry, she's not afraid to deviate from Chantry doctrines for what she feels is right (i.e. she favors greater freedom for mages, elves, etc.)  As far as "unsavory comments" about elves go, in my elf warden playthroughs, she makes one comment that comes off as "accidently condescending" but she quickly catches herself and apologizes immediately.  During my last Origins playthrough, my elf warden chose to make the Ultimate Sacrifice.  Now in my current Inquisition playthrough, when the subject of the Hero of Fereldan comes up, I find that spymaster Leliana still deeply mourns her fallen lover, which was very touching.

 

By contrast, ZEV TRIED TO KILL THE WARDEN!  (Zev and Sten as companions, I never quite understood.  I just "went with it" because the game expect you to.)  And if you think Zev looks weird now, he looks truly bizarre in DA2!  (A victim of Michael Jackson's plastic surgeon perhaps?)

 

Also, ***MINOR SPOILER ALERT***   There's a pleasant camp scene after you complete the "Nature of the Beast" quest which becomes even more meaningful if you're in the process of trying to start a relationship with Leliana.

 

Anyhow, I can't think of a better lesbian relationship in any of the Dragon Age games.

[GoldenGail3]

I dunno - I'm kind of meh towards both, so there's that.

[robertmarilyn]

Zev's looks in DA2 break my heart. 

 

Despite Lel's crazy, softened Lel is always my divine. 

[vertigomez]

Both are great options for a female Tabris. There are some nice tie-ins, if you want to call them that...

Leliana met your mother, you actually get to speak with her about your Warden in DAI (unlike Zev), city elves are often Andrastian so there's that, Pope!Leliana is very pro-elf, and Leli knows what it's like to be imprisoned and brutalized and to want revenge!!1 Also she likes sexy pudding and naughty nuns.

Zevran's ~spoilery gift~ is a nice nod to the gift your betrothed was, uh, planning to give to you. It's hilarious that your dad wants you to settle down with a nice elven boy and you manage to do exactly what he wants AND the opposite of what he wants by bringing home a dashing assassin. Also he likes sexy leather and bondage.

My heart's with Zevran because he's my precious child, but for f!Tabris both options are superb. Both of them have lived the kind of wild and carefree life your city elf has only dreamed of (there are several references to your character being something of a wild child, always pushing boundaries), but they each have enough life experience to empathize with you and show that The Good Life™ is not all it's cracked up to be.

Go for both!

[Catilina]

Both are great options for a female Tabris. [...]

Go for both!

 

How enthusiastic you are!

[Ghost Gal]

I think they're both fantastic fits, so it just depends on which way the wind's blowing.

 

I personally like Zevran a great deal. Funny, charming, great character development, you learn so much about him. It's AMAZING how much he seems to change as a person you get to know him, especially when you romance him. Sure, he shows a more honest and caring side when you befriend him, but romance? You just peel back defense mechanism after defense mechanism and just tear that persona to shreds. You slowly see him go from a sleazy lech to a noble, loyal, committed, loving partner. He still avoids saying the "L" word like it'll give him hives, but you can't doubt his devotion. "To be by your side, I would storm the Black City itself. Never doubt it."

 

And he's also still with the Warden by DAI, if that helps. He's pretty much the only LI who doesn't show up because he's at the Warden's side (they say so in their letter) whereas every other DAO LI makes an appearance because, essentially, they're all doing their own thing while the Warden is doing theirs. There's something to be said for someone who'll loyally stand by you for life.

 

Zevran's ~spoilery gift~ is a nice nod to the gift your betrothed was, uh, planning to give to you. It's hilarious that your dad wants you to settle down with a nice elven boy and you manage to do exactly what he wants AND the opposite of what he wants by bringing home a dashing assassin. Also he likes sexy leather and bondage.

 

OMG I was just thinking the same thing! XD

[Qun00]

All my Wardens have ultimately ended up with Leliana. She's pretty and sweet; though she's strongly pro-Chantry, she's not afraid to deviate from Chantry doctrines for what she feels is right (i.e. she favors greater freedom for mages, elves, etc.) As far as "unsavory comments" about elves go, in my elf warden playthroughs, she makes one comment that comes off as "accidently condescending" but she quickly catches herself and apologizes immediately. During my last Origins playthrough, my elf warden chose to make the Ultimate Sacrifice. Now in my current Inquisition playthrough, when the subject of the Hero of Fereldan comes up, I find that spymaster Leliana still deeply mourns her fallen lover, which was very touching.

By contrast, ZEV TRIED TO KILL THE WARDEN! (Zev and Sten as companions, I never quite understood. I just "went with it" because the game expect you to.) And if you think Zev looks weird now, he looks truly bizarre in DA2! (A victim of Michael Jackson's plastic surgeon perhaps?)

Also, ***MINOR SPOILER ALERT*** There's a pleasant camp scene after you complete the "Nature of the Beast" quest which becomes even more meaningful if you're in the process of trying to start a relationship with Leliana.

Anyhow, I can't think of a better lesbian relationship in any of the Dragon Age games.

There is a great difference between Sten and Zevran. While the former is indeed a murderer, he's never been your enemy.

Moreover, Sten wishes to atone for his actions and the fact that he surrended to Lothering's authorities is proof of that. Not to mention that you learn of this when you first meet rather than needing to befriend him in order to find any redeeming qualities.

While Zevran does become an enemy of the Crows in DA2, it seems to me that he doesn't do it out of regret for his life as an assassin, but simply a desire for revenge for the way they treated him.

[Catilina]

[...]

 

While Zevran does become an enemy of the Crows in DA2, it seems to me that he doesn't do it out of regret for his life as an assassin, but simply a desire for revenge for the way they treated him.

 

On the other hand: since they persecuted him, he was hard to forget. + From his childhood Zevran only that learned how to kill. Some habits hard to get rid of... Of course, that does not make him innocent.

[Ghost Gal]

There is a great difference between Sten and Zevran. While the former is indeed a murderer, he's never been your enemy.

 

XD My reaction every time I see someone say they don't like Zevran because he tried to kill them:

 

 

Or in this case, "Let's not bicker or argue about who tried to kill who." XD

[Ghost Gal]

Okay, serious time.

 

While Zevran does become an enemy of the Crows in DA2, it seems to me that he doesn't do it out of regret for his life as an assassin, but simply a desire for revenge for the way they treated him.

 

Let's pretend for a moment that he did do that: What would that accomplish? 

 

Would it bring his victims back? Bring solace to their family and friends? (Most of whom he's probably never seen and who don't know what he looks like?) Change the way the Crows operate? Prevent future assassinations by the Crows? No, it wouldn't do anything but make him feel sad; and a helpless, inescapable sadness at that since he can't really do anything about it. He can't change the past, can't individually track down and apologize to the friends and family of all his past victims, etc.

 

Nowhere to go except forward. And helping Ferelden's two surviving Grey Wardens save the world from a Blight is as good a place as any to start. 

 

Not to mention, Zevran himself says he never really had a choice joining the Crows. They bought him when he was seven, "too young to know the sharp end of a dagger from the blunt end, and raise [him] to know nothing but murder." Not to mention put him through rigorous training where they "weeded out" (read: KILLED) those who didn't make the cut, so he had to become a remorseless killer just to survive to adulthood. How much blame can you really assign someone who was picked up by such a ruthless organization that creates an army of child soldiers and forces them to kill if they don't want to be killed?

 

I actually think his quest to take down the Crows is a noble one. He can't change his past as a Crow, but he can try to take down the Crows so they can't create any more victims. (Recruit any more child soldiers, force anymore unwilling adults to kill people to satisfy their greed, or create any more victims of assassination.)

 

Where's Sten after the Blight? Oh right, leading the Qunari, fully planning on relaunching an invasion on Thedas, fully knowing how much devastation and how many casualties it will cause (after the bitter 150-year struggle between the Qunari and Thedas when they first arrived). So much for feeling sorry about killing an Andrastian family of five--he'll "atone" in the future by instigating a religious war that'll kill thousands more.

 

Zevran may not cry to show his feelings, but he's got a practical solution, and a darn good one, I think.

[Qun00]

Regret isn't about the past, it is about the future. The first step into change. But what Zevran wants isn't to change himself and that is not what his new quest is about.

Of course, you're right when you say that Sten is far from squeacky clean, but he gives you fewer reasons not to recruit him than Zevran does.

[olnorton]

Zevran who?

[vertigomez]

Regret isn't about the past, it is about the future. The first step into change. But what Zevran wants isn't to change himself and that is not what his new quest is about.

Just to note, this relies on the assumption that your character believes Zevran needs to change himself. Gonna spoiler tag this for the OP's sake.

Spoiler

His regret is mostly centered around Rinna's death and the fact that he let the Crows use him for so long. He can't bring Rinna back, but he can eliminate the Crows. He doesn't pull a Heel-Face Turn like Blackwall or Leliana where he has this big revelation about how he done did wrong and needs to atone, but the man has his own code of ethics - he objects to slavery, to emotional torture, to slaughtering the Dalish or the mages. Check out his comments if you decide to annul the Circle:

Zevran: I am hardly the person to lecture on the worthier points of human nature, but surely this is a fine time to display the oft-lauded virtue known as mercy? I deserved to die, and you spared me. Why are you so quick to condemn these mages?
Warden: You’re a lot better-looking than most of the mages.
Zevran: Why, thank you. Flattery would normally distract me, but not today. Inconvenient, no?
Warden: You’re saying I made a mistake sparing you?
Zevran: (Nervous laughter) Perhaps. But you did it nevertheless, no?
Warden: Magic and knives are different.
Zevran: Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speed could kill. Why single out the wielders of one and not the others?
Warden: Mages can do more damage with one spell than you ever could.
Zevran: Mm. Touché. I’ve taken the lives of many throughout my career, but this is no measured act. There is no chase, no hunt, no dignity in this… there is only slaughter.
Warden: What about the people they might slaughter?
Zevran: Might, not will. Committing genocide just because something might happen is more than the mark of a weak mind. It is insanity.
Warden: Zevran, you’re a hypocrite.
Zevran: Perhaps I am at that, and a thief and a murderer as well. But I looked my victims in the face.

His sense of morality's convoluted, but it's there.

[springacres]

My knee-jerk response: Leliana who?

 

My more considered response: Think about your character.  Which of them does she feel most comfortable around?  Which does she feel most strongly attracted to?

[straykat]

Also she likes sexy pudding and naughty nuns.

 

I don't always get this line unfortunately. I think i'm speeding up the conversation trees too much sometimes.