182 réponses à ce sujet

[Silvery]

While I have no problem with the morality system in Mass Effect, I do think it would be better to scrap it. Instead of the game telling you this is the 'bad' choice and this is the 'good' choice. Just that they away and you have the player think more about there choices and the effect it would have. You would not go into a key decision knowing what is the good and bad choice from the game. 

[Dukemon]

They should swap the weighting, perhaps. Simple to say HelpOnlyHumansInterests = Paragon ; HelpEveryoneAndActKindly = Renegade

In ME you were an Alliance agent, act to help only the Alliance you are a mean guy und deserving Renegade

In ME2 you were a some how part of Cerberus, acting for Cerberus and their imagination of the world/universe besides you are something like an outlaw on an outlaw place and deserving Renegade

Well, in ME3 it was ok how it was. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

The way the Paragon/Renegade system was originally documented made it seem like it wasn't a morality system at all - it was just a measure of Shepard's personality. And it appeared quote nuanced and interesting.

Ultimately, that's not how it was inplemented (and how it was implemented changed significantly from game to game), but it had potential.

In this respect, it was very much like an earlier BioWare morality system, Open Palm/Closed Fist from Jade Empire. That one also sounded really interesting when it was first presented, but again, wasn't implemented in a way that made it interesting, instead reducing them to Lawful Stupid and Chaotic Stupid.

I wish either for a system that actually does what P/R or OP/CF promised to do, or none at all. Or something completely different, but this simplistic dichotomy needs to go.

[Commander Rpg]

The way the Paragon/Renegade system was originally documented made it seem like it wasn't a morality system at all - it was just a measure of Shepard's personality. And it appeared quote nuanced and interesting.

Many paragon and renegade dialogues and actions were incoherent when considered in their totality, and don't let me talk also about the interrupts...

 

This is because there never has been a direction. If it's a moral system Fartware chose, it's hypocritical, if it's a modulator on the pc's personality system, then it lacks on making you feel when you're actually a good or a bad person. Because some paragon choices could be renegade ones and vice versa.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Many paragon and renegade dialogues and actions were incoherent when considered in their totality...

No argument there. The implementation didn't make any sense at all. But it needed to for the dialogue options to be comprehensible.

...and don't let me talk also about the interrupts...

The most poorly implemented good idea in game design in quite some time.

[Seraphim24]

I feel like the sense of right/wrong is interwoven into way more than just whether a choice pops up into "paragon" or "renegade" in dialogue. It's kind of like all the dialogue, all the characters, the whole sort of thing it seems to me.

[Shechinah]

No argument there. The implementation didn't make any sense at all. But it needed to for the dialogue options to be comprehensible.

The most poorly implemented good idea in game design in quite some time.

 
Could you elaborate on this bit of your post, please?; "But it needed to for the dialogue options to be comprehensible."
 
Although I find the interupts to be an interesting idea, I do wish they were not accompanied by sound: it feels unnecessary to me and tend to take me out of the moment especially in the more quiet moments where the prompts can appear. I see no reason why they could not be completely silent: they would still be very visible to the player.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

Could you elaborate on this bit of your post, please?; "But it needed to for the dialogue options to be comprehensible."

I found the paraphrases to be effectively useless when trying to determine what the full line would be. I expect, however, that they were intended to be useful in this way. I can only posit that the tone icons were aupposed to impart soe extra meaning which would have made the paraphrases useful, but because of the inconsistent and ill-defined nature of Paragon and Renegade, they didn't.

A better defined Paragon/Renegade divide would have made ME's dialogue system actually possible to navigate, which it otherwise was not.

Although I find the interupts to be an interesting idea, I do wish they were not accompanied by sound: it feels unnecessary to me and tend to take me out of the moment especially in the more quiet moments where the prompts can appear. I see no reason why they could not be completely silent: they would still be very visible to the player.

I routinely didn't see them. I also don't think the sound was conspicuous enough (I'm honestly surprised to learn that there was one).

What the interrupts really needed was an optional auto-pause to give us time to work out what they meant and then decide whether to use them.