219 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Pretty dumb and vague, given the Inquisition's position in Thedas. Though, I guess by that same coin the Inquisitor can make up a charge for anything they want.

 

Fiona is a statelessness person who has surrendered to the Inquisition which is an authoritarian organization whose judgements fall under the purview of the Inquisitor and no one else. Yes, the Inquisitor can judge her for whatever charges he or she desires in this case due to Fiona's lack of a nationality.
In other situations, such as, for instance, Florianne. The states in question just delegate their authority to the Inquisition.
 

[Aren]

Ehi look another Fiona Thread.

I do wonder however if she loved Maric o Shrek?

[Terodil]

I always assumed that issues connected with the Conclave (so rifts/Corythilis, of course, but also the mage-templar-conflict) fell under the authority of the Inquisition as per the writ of the Divine.

It's a bit like the worldly vs. spiritual governance dispute we had in Europe in the Middle Ages. Mages and templars have their own jurisdiction in the Chantry and its suborganisations. As far as mage/templar questions are concerned, they're not subject to the jurisdiction of whatever country they happen to live in. Ergo, all the King or Queen of Ferelden could condemn Fiona for was her handing over the fortress to a foreign power. Everything else falls under the purview of the Inquisition.

[Barquiel]

How about crimes committed against the people of Thedas, namely starting a war?

Lambert went against the Divine's orders and attacked the mages in the white spire before a single vote on seceding from the chantry could be passed. He started the war, not Fiona.

[MisterJB]

Lambert went against the Divine's orders and attacked the mages in the white spire before a single vote on seceding from the chantry could be passed. He started the war, not Fiona.

The mages are not a separate group against which acts of war can be waged. They are charges of the Chantry who use the Seekers and Templars as intermediaries and enforcers. The most one can accuse Lambert of is abuse of power on that instance. Otherwise, every Annulment, which are actually far more brutal than anything Lambert did, would be a declaration of war which we know is not true.

 

A declaration of independence not recognized by any lawfully chosen government in Thedas and passed with the full knowledge of the need to enforce it through martial combat with the lawful agents of authority AKA the Templar, is a declaration of war.

 

[vbibbi]

Lambert went against the Divine's orders and attacked the mages in the white spire before a single vote on seceding from the chantry could be passed. He started the war, not Fiona.

 

So if two nations were at war, but the nation who did not initiate the war committed war crimes, they shouldn't be held accountable?

[Terodil]

MisterJB: I think we're headed deep into the fields of semantics here. The "separate group" argument does not hold water if you consider civil wars, which are just that -- legally unrecognised factions of the same group fighting against each other.

I think we can say that both sides fecked up badly. If the institution designed to protect a group of individuals not only fails to do that, but actually starts doing the opposite, then it is asking for a revolution. If a group unilaterally decides to stop being subject to authorities, then it is asking for repression.

I actually admire the DA team for making this conflict so ambivalent. It's so hard to pick a side, I even realise that my perception over who is 'more in the wrong' changes from game to game.

[Barquiel]

So if two nations were at war, but the nation who did not initiate the war committed war crimes, they shouldn't be held accountable?

I agree that you have to be held accountable for your actions and if some mages did commit war crimes then they shall be punished accordingly because they will have...well...done something worth punishing. Fiona broke an agreement with the ferelden monarch and Anora/Alistair deal with it. But there is no cause for the Inquisition to judge her, imo.

[The Baconer]

Fiona is a statelessness person who has surrendered to the Inquisition which is an authoritarian organization whose judgements fall under the purview of the Inquisitor and no one else. Yes, the Inquisitor can judge her for whatever charges he or she desires in this case due to Fiona's lack of a nationality.
In other situations, such as, for instance, Florianne. The states in question just delegate their authority to the Inquisition.

 

Right, so it's pointless to try and charge her in accordance with a legal framework that doesn't even exist. "Starting a war" is about as legally relevant as "unlawful wearing of patterned fabrics". All that matters in this hypothetical scenario is the Inquisitor's personal whims; there's no official guidelines or rule of law to even be concerned with. 

[TK514]

At the very least we should have had the option to remove her from her position.

[Almostfaceman]

Anyone else wish this? I know it's really petty but the fact that she stays in command after selling all the mages into slavery and hangs around in Skyhold makes me more reluctant to side with the mages.

Which is a shame as Hushed Whispers is so atmospheric and really makes you feel the stakes you're playing for.

 

She sold them into slavery? How?

[lynroy]

So, is this another Fiona **** posting thread that will devolve into another mage vs templars debate? I can't tell right now.

[sniper_arrow]

So, is this another Fiona **** posting thread that will devolve into another mage vs templars debate? I can't tell right now.

 

Both. Give it a week or so.

[lynroy]

A week? That seems rather generous. I'll take the under.

[sniper_arrow]

A week? That seems rather generous. I'll take the under.

 

I actually am. If you want the under, 24-48 hours will do.

[Illegitimus]

Anyone else wish this? I know it's really petty but the fact that she stays in command after selling all the mages into slavery and hangs around in Skyhold makes me more reluctant to side with the mages.

Which is a shame as Hushed Whispers is so atmospheric and really makes you feel the stakes you're playing for.

 

So...exactly what crime would you be entitled to judge her for?  

[animedreamer]

Anyone else wish this? I know it's really petty but the fact that she stays in command after selling all the mages into slavery and hangs around in Skyhold makes me more reluctant to side with the mages.

Which is a shame as Hushed Whispers is so atmospheric and really makes you feel the stakes you're playing for.

Wait you want to judge her because she took a offer to protect the mages under her leadership? She didn't even know about what happened at the temple of Sacred Ashes yet when Alexis approached her about amnesty in Tevinter. So imagine being told by a Tevinter Mage about what happened at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, and then being told that he could get you out of Ferelden let alone Southern Thedas before the entirety of Southern Thedas blamed the mages and came headhunting. Also Alexis was in charge of the mages after Fiona agreed to hand over control of the mages under her leadership to Alexis, so anything the mages did at that point was because Alexis told them to do it.

[animedreamer]

At the very least we should have had the option to remove her from her position.

She didn't really have a position, the circle of magi was dissolved, she was no longer Grand Enchanter, a position that only exist within the circle. The mages that followed her followed her out of mutual agreement, that the circles should dissolve. After the Inquisitor either allies with the mages or subjugates them she isn't given a new position in either case, she's still just the person most mages delegate their issues through. As some may recall the on the war map there is a mission where mages who were supposed to be with the inquisition flee and you can choose to deal with them in three 3 ways depending on who you ask to handle it. Point being it's a example of Fiona not being in charge of the mages but rather being the person who most of the mages trust.

[lynroy]

I actually am. If you want the under, 24-48 hours will do.

You're on!

[animedreamer]

So if two nations were at war, but the nation who did not initiate the war committed war crimes, they shouldn't be held accountable?

What war crimes did they actually commit other than defending themselves against the Templars?

[KaiserShep]

Honestly, Fiona pays for her crimes by having to live her life.  

 

That woman is a mess... correction, was a mess.  

 

I think it would be great if people who sided with the mages have to end up fighting Fiona in the next game because she sided with Solas. 

 

 

I wonder though. Would the writers give her motivation that undoes her concern for Alistair's well being? After all, in this zany plan of Egghead's, life as we know it in Thedas will probably end, and presumably a lot of shems would perish, not to mention the lot of mages that she apparently considers her responsibility. 

[sniper_arrow]

What war crimes did they actually commit other than defending themselves against the Templars?

 

Letting an outside force kicking out an arl from his own home even without doing anything (let's face it, even Fiona would consider this wrong), for starters?

[GreaterGoodIreland]

I think Fiona did the only thing she could have to prevent outright slaughter of her followers, particularly the vulnerable ones.... BUT

 

It would have been good to judge her, as the people of Thedas would have differing views on the subject, making the whole idea an interesting addition to the story.

[thesuperdarkone2]

All these threads make me think the alliance with Tevinter wouldn't have given the mages the flak they get if anyone other than Fiona was the one who made it.

 

Seriously, it seems the mage hate is more Fiona hate.

[sniper_arrow]

All these threads make me think the alliance with Tevinter wouldn't have given the mages the flak they get if anyone other than Fiona was the one who made it.

 

Seriously, it seems the mage hate is more Fiona hate.

 

Regardless who made the deal on the mages side, he/she will get the hate.