219 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Ah that's it. Somehow I thought she said said **** the Chantry.

 

Still though, Justinia was openminded. Only topped by Leliana.

 

I'd understand if.. say.. Meredith was Divine.

 

This.

 

[sniper_arrow]

This.

 

 

That reminds me. I haven't read Asunder for a while, but did Fiona even consider meeting with Justinia to discuss the mages?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

That reminds me. I haven't read Asunder for a while, but did Fiona even consider meeting with Justinia to discuss the mages?

 

No. Wynne considered it and Wynne was working with Justinia but Fiona didn't care about it. Adrian was even worse.

[vbibbi]

If you ally with them, you are forgiving her. If you conscript, you've already punished her. You'd just cause more problems by arbitrarily punishing her

 

Theoretically that's how it plays out. But in the actual game, there is no difference to Fiona if we conscript or ally. Just some changes in war table missions. I would have been happier if she had remained as the leader of the mages if allied but demoted if conscripted.

 

She made a bad decision as she was forced into a situation with no winning option. I like her and have no ill will towards her. She is a calming, rational  voice within the Southern Mage community, Leave her be.

 

Are talking about the same person? Calming and rational are the opposite of Fiona.

[Akiza]

Neither is 'humanity', and yet we have crimes against humanity.

 

Neither is 'decency', and yet we have have affronts to common decency.

 

Neither is logic, and yet we have this post.

What this post is supposed to mean?

 

"The people of Thedas" isn't a legal authority one can use to accuse FIona of war declaration.

 

There is a whole lot of convoluted arguments that have nothing to do with the subject being discussed simply because you didn't understood my previous post and then decided to proceed with  a proto-philosophical route  which doesn't mean anything.

[vbibbi]

 

What this post is supposed to mean?

 

"The people of Thedas" isn't a legal authority one can use to accuse FIona of war declaration.

 

There is a whole lot of convoluted arguments that have nothing to do with the subject being discussed simply because you didn't understood my previous post and then decided to proceed with  a proto-philosophical route  which doesn't mean anything.

 

 

The point is that there are many methods in which legal judgments can occur. Class action law suits, inter- or intranational tribunals, etc. The Inquisition can be seen as a similar role (functionally, not results based) as the United Nations judging political and military leaders.

[Akiza]

The point is that there are many methods in which legal judgments can occur. Class action law suits, inter- or intranational tribunals, etc. The Inquisition can be seen as a similar role (functionally, not results based) as the United Nations judging political and military leaders.

None of this methods imply to use the people of Thedas as a legal authority because they are not.

I'm going to accuse FIona on the behalf of the people of  Antiva who doesn't know her and most importantly didn't give me any authorization to represent them.

[straykat]

I'd rather judge her from the Chantry point of view.

 

It's an Inquisition, after all. As much as I admire the UN, I wanted to play something a bit more..... dreadful and antiquated. Speaking of the game as a whole, I mean.

[Master Warder Z_]

Neither is logic, and yet we have this post.

 

Okay I admit, this made me laugh.

[Master Warder Z_]

"The people of Thedas" isn't a legal authority one can use to accuse FIona of war declaration.

 

No, but the Chantry is, the Templars are, Fereldan is. Hell you could institute the trial because you think she's a meddling knife ear and I doubt anyone would really object, probably not even her own rebellion by this point.

 

And would be perfectly justifiable in name dropping them given the Inquisition's backing.

 

Honestly finding 'legality' to press judgement is of the most minor issues facing this, I mean you literally have the leader of the mage rebellion who just stole a fortress from Fereldan, invited in a bunch of Tevinters and tried to press her little war of freedom on most of Thedas.

 

.-. Precedence and authority are relatively minor things.

[Cute Nug]

Given your username, of course you would stand by her. The problem with Fiona was what comes after the decision to rebel, most especially allying with Tevinter. Letting an outside force kicking out an arl from his own castle without doing anything is not what you call a good decision. 

 

I don't fault her for taking the very risky choice of surrendering the rebel mages freedom to Tevinter indentured servitude if she had clear information that the Ferelden forces would just stand by why a foreign army of rebel templars attacked Redcliffe to kill the mages. An interesting very odd choice for a former slave that had declared war risking everyone's lives by rebelling from Chanty/templar indentured servitude. Personally I think it was a bad choice on her part until absolutely all other options were truly exhausted but it makes for a great story rich situation in game. Going from rebelling from the oppressive murdering chantry to the oppressive murdering Tevinter empire (unless you get a nice master like Dorian) seems like a bad decision but at least you would be oppressed by fellow mages which I guess is better.  

 

My problem is she doesn't bother to ask the Inquisition if they would protect the rebel mages from the rebel templars and under what conditions. She seems to have given up on continuing to look out for her rebel mages once Alexius is her new master. I can only dislike her sad moral defeat or head cannon that she is being magically influence to deny her previous nature to consider the well being of the mages. It would be nice for her to offer to help close the skyhole that will harm everyone. Seriously, why is the Inquisition the only one trying to close the breach. Skyhole threatening all of Thedas trumps mage/templar war and whatever stupidity is affecting the Grey Wardens. They could take a murder break to actually do the right thing. They will take a murder break for a peace conclave but not the end of the world. Why were Tevinter and Weisshaupt Grey Warden mages useless. Forever, idiots that refused to help. Another reason for Southern Thedas to dislike Tevinter (not that they care). For Grey Spawn it is dereliction of duty even though it wasn't a blight. 

 

I absolutely feel she is horribly at fault for staying with Alexius if his evil Tranquil murdering was evident. A rational caring leader would have voided the indentured servant contract once it was clear her new master was evil. However, the Herald isn't allowed to mention the murder of the Tranquils in their meeting at Redcliffe so we can also head cannon that the Herald is at fault for not mentioning that incredibly important bit of info. At least Fiona has the excuse of potential magical mind control for her sad personality change. The Herald just looks like an arse for not caring about the horrible murder of the Tranquils.

 

I can either RP a Herald that doesn't consider Tranquil as people that matter or head cannon that Fiona was told and still wouldn't void the indentured service contract with Alexius.

 

Fiona in DAI is a sad failed character like Orsino because I don't want a Herald that thinks horribly murdering Tranquils doesn't matter. Maybe she was mind controlled is the best I could head cannon. Maybe Thedas finally just broke her inside. She is a very interesting character Bioware created. I wish DAI had been a smaller game so Bioware could have given more time to the full stories of characters like Fiona but that's just my opinion. An even better Fiona and Viv in DAI would have been awesome. I loved the limited content we got with them.

 

I can see the interest in being able to judge and/or demote Fiona if you do IHW but I'm okay with it not being an option as justice in Thedas is entirely dependent on your position. I would be happy with having more conversation options in Skyhold and war table missions throughout the game with Fiona. Even just the one issue of totally ignoring the horrible murder of Tranquils seems really odd. Maybe this is so we will buy Descent so the Nug King will judge the Quizzy about not seeming to care when the Transquils are murdered.

[straykat]

I don't even want Tranquils in the first place. I guess that's my way of being different there.

 

But they are harmless and their lives matter. It's terrible what happened to them.

[GreaterGoodIreland]

This.

 

Justinia had lost control of the Templars, and was completely unable to simply order them to comply with reforms even though she had such authority. She was unable to because the Templars resisted it politically and afterwards violently. If she was truly an ally worth keeping, she would have declared the reforms along the lines of the Aequitarian doctrines and challenged the Templars to defy her. Instead, there was a whole lot of sneaking about and sitting on ass, trying to tip the scales from behind the scenes. Enough then happened to tip the scales in favour of the Libertarian view.
 

The Divine was loyal to the Chantry, not to the mages, she saw it as a problem that needed fixing, not the reality of the situation after Kirkwall.

[straykat]

She didn't merely lose the Templars. They and/or Lambert were completely against anything on the matter of Tranquility. With Wynne's help, it was possible that maybe it could be merely temporary. But the fact that it could be cured was bad enough for them. They just showed their true colors in wanting to be utter control freaks.. with no compromise. They might as well be Qunari.

 

The mages also sucked. Instead of meeting to discuss Wynne's research, they decide to use their conclave as an excuse to unite a rebellion.

 

edit: I also think Lambert was just protecting the Seekers. Willing to throw everyone under the bus - mages, Divine, and duped Templars - just so they keep their secrets and mystique.

[Master Warder Z_]

She didn't merely lose the Templars. They and/or Lambert were completely against anything on the matter of Tranquility

 

Eh...

 

Debatable, in that very book Lambert grudgingly admits to Evangeline that perhaps that research could be looked into again when the world wasn't on the brink of a Magi revolt. He even no so covertly offers her a part of that research when the day comes, He wasn't against the cure, as far as I could tell, he was against it going forward then and there. Because its just adding more fuel to the fire, I mean even if the cure for tranquility is revealed to the world at large, that doesn't mean all that much to the Seekers unless if their own practices also become as publicly known, which is unlikely.

 

I mean Lambert for all his tendencies generally seemed to actually want to compromise on that issue. it was the Knight Captain who spurned that offer because of 'lulz morals' rather then doing the sensible thing and just shutting up and accepting the order, and coming back to this issue in a decade or so when it won't frigging just ignite magi supremacy sentiment and anger all across the circles.

 

Though I suppose I can't really fault her for her decision, I mean we are all bound to our conscience, at the end of the day we all have to live with what we do.

[straykat]

Eh...

 

Debatable, in that very book Lambert grudgingly admits to Evangeline that perhaps that research could be looked into again when the world wasn't on the brink of a Magi revolt. He even no so covertly offers her a part of that research when the day comes, He wasn't against the cure, as far as I could tell, he was against it going forward then and there. Because its just adding more fuel to the fire, I mean even if the cure for tranquility is revealed to the world at large, that doesn't mean all that much to the Seekers unless if their own practices also become as publicly known, which is unlikely.

 

I mean Lambert for all his tendencies generally seemed to actually want to compromise on that issue. it was the Knight Captain who spurned that offer because of 'lulz morals' rather then doing the sensible thing and just shutting up and accepting the order, and coming back to this issue in a decade or so when it won't frigging just ignite magi supremacy sentiment and anger all across the circles.

 

Though I suppose I can't really fault her for her decision, I mean we are all bound to our conscience, at the end of the day we all have to live with what we do.

 

A part of me sympathizes with Lambert for his experiences in Tevinter. But I got the feeling the Seekers were protecting themselves. I think Tranquility was too close for comfort to what they're involved with. 

 

I get this feeling about them in general... that they just care about self-protection. And they maintain it with Illusion. And if the Illusion is gone, so are they. But I'm kind of getting off the point a bit.

[Master Warder Z_]

A part of me sympathizes with Lambert for his experiences in Tevinter. But I got the feeling the Seekers were protecting themselves. I think Tranquility was too close for comfort to what they're involved with. 

 

I get this feeling about them in general... that they just care about self-protection. And they maintain it with Illusion. And if the Illusion is gone, so are they. But I'm kind of getting off the point a bit.

 

Like I said, unless if info on Seeker rites actually got out, I doubt it would be a big deal, and not even many Seekers know about those secrets.

[straykat]

Like I said, unless if info on Seeker rites actually got out, I doubt it would be a big deal, and not even many Seekers know about those secrets.

 

It would be a big deal to the Chantry at least. They didn't even want the Divine to know things. The game would be up once the Divine isn't under their control. The Divine would no longer believe they're actually "holy warriors" blessed by the Maker. That's the only thing that strikes fear in people.

 

Up to this point, they can control everyone through smoke and mirrors. In many ways, they're much like a self-proclaimed "Herald of Andraste". They don't actually put stock in normal faith or the religion itself.. but in their own games and illusions they play with people.

[sniper_arrow]

A part of me sympathizes with Lambert for his experiences in Tevinter. But I got the feeling the Seekers were protecting themselves. I think Tranquility was too close for comfort to what they're involved with. 

 

I get this feeling about them in general... that they just care about self-protection. And they maintain it with Illusion. And if the Illusion is gone, so are they. But I'm kind of getting off the point a bit.

 

Cassandra does reveal to the Inquisitor after her personal quest that the Seekers were more interested in self-preservation rather than what they were suppose to do. 

[GreaterGoodIreland]

Fiona is a revolutionary. Calming influence my backside.

[Vit246]

delete

[Medhia_Nox]

Fiona is a revolutionary. Calming influence my backside.

 

What... you don't find her saying:  "F the divine." to induce a calming serenity? 

[SgtSteel91]

If there was a hypothetical judgement scene for Fiona, I'd hope one option was to not judge her. Alexius was doing everything, including breaking the fabric of time itself, to make her give up herself and her people to the Venatori. Against power like that, there no way she couldn't resist the Venatori taking over. And that before Alexius' intervention, she originally risked her life coming to Val Royeaux to offer an alliance with the Inquisition. In short, it's not your fault, it's Alexius'. Get that bastard out here for judgement.

[The Baconer]

The Inquisition can be seen as a similar role (functionally, not results based) as the United Nations judging political and military leaders.

Absolutely not.

[Cute Nug]

If there was a hypothetical judgement scene for Fiona, I'd hope one option was to not judge her. Alexius was doing everything, including breaking the fabric of time itself, to make her give up herself and her people to the Venatori. Against power like that, there no way she couldn't resist the Venatori taking over. And that before Alexius' intervention, she originally risked her life coming to Val Royeaux to offer an alliance with the Inquisition. In short, it's not your fault, it's Alexius'. Get that bastard out here for judgement.

 

Of course we would take the option to not judge her! We are the Inquisition the epitome of justice and truthiness. I wonder if Anders is willing to blow her up for the Inquisition.