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#1
Bayonet Hipshot

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After having played both the Mage path and the Templar path as well as allying and conscripting them, I am of the opinion that the Templar path is better than the Mage path, regardless of alliance or conscription. Here are my reasons.

 

1) Faction Aversary - Here we have Samson versus Calpernia. Since Samson was introduced in Dragon Age 2, you would think that he has the edge on Calpernia since he has a one game head start but he does not. Personally, I found myself sympathizing more with the ex-slave turned Tevinter nationalist Calpernia over ex-Templar turned Red Templar Samson. To elaborate, in Dragon Age 2, we see Samson being extremely disenchanted with the Mage cause but in Dragon Age Inquisition, we somehow see him allying with one of the most notable Mage villain of all time, an ancient Tevinter magister turned Darkspawn. We could also have a civilized conversation with Calpernia and let her go which is refreshing for a villain encounter. Lastly, I find the notion of Samson being the Vessel instead of Calpernia absolutely preposterous and laughable. I mean, what does Samson know of ancient magics and knowledge ?

 

2) Faction Leader - This one is a match up between Barris and Fiona. Fiona has been introduced to Dragon Age fans twice via 2 books, The Calling and Asunder. Naturally with her head start, you would expect Fiona to be better than Barris but like Samson, Fiona flounders. In both The Calling and Asunder, Fiona is portrayed as a rebel and a someone who is anti status quo. She is someone who has rebelled against the Circle system and the Chantry but she can't rebel against a single Tevinter magister ? That is completely ridiculous and out of character for her. Furthermore, unlike Fiona, Barris actually recognizes that the Templars screwed up and helps the Inquisition during Champions of the Just whereas Fiona does absolutely nothing to help you and goes along with Alexius' plans despite her career as an ex-Grey Warden and the Grand Enchanter. This trend continues after the quests where Barris continues to be productive regardless of alliance of conscription of the Templars. He can either lead the reformed Templar Order if the Herald chooses alliance or he will become Cullen's agent anyway. Meanwhile, Fiona just hangs around the library doing absolutely nothing for the Inquisition. This is despite the fact that she is a Spirit Healer, the Dragon Age wiki lists her as one (http://dragonage.wik...i/Spirit_healer), which theoretically makes her a someone that could be very useful but we never see her healing anybody throughout the game.

 

3) Recruitment Questline - In Hushed Whispers takes you through the Redcliffe Castle and a journey through the future, courtesy of time magic. Much of the quest is carried by the awesome Dorian. However, time magic is supposedly something that is revolutionary and dangerous. Yet, we never hear about it at all after the whole quest is over. There is no discussion about timelines, about alternate universes, parallel realities, etc.Moreover, the whole "Elder One" title is poorly done because if you have lived for a year under Corypheus' rule, you must know who he is, you must know what he is and accordingly must inform Dorian and the Herald instead of just calling him the "Elder One". This is especially true of the Dreadegg Wolfhead. There is also the painful reality that you technically did absolutely nothing during portions of the In Hushed Whispers. I mean, you went one year forward, did some stuff and then returned one year back to the present moment. 1 + (-1) = 0. If there was some effect due to our future actions then yeah, I can see the time travel having meaning but there wasn't any effect. Last but not the least, we have Cole, who has a very weird introduction if you complete In Hushed Whispers. He just pops out, says Templars are here and that the Elder One is angry. I mean, Cole is a unique phenomena in Dragon Age Inquisition and he deserves a proper exposition. On the other hand, Champions of the Just starts out as a political quest which then takes grim and exciting turn into confronting the Envy Demon while its trying to steal your identity followed by saving Templars  and then having an epic battle with the Envy Demon. In my opinion, the Fade is safer than the Dark Future. What's more, you get to see your advisors and Cassandra being mean and evil which is a nice touch. Cole's introduction and character is properly fleshed out in Champions of the Just and Dorian's Haven introduction also makes a lot more sense to his "I am a Tevinter mage but I am different" characterization because he shows up to warn you of the invading Venatori mage cultists and help Roderick. To top it all off, Champions of the Just has more Codex and more notable loot compared to In Hushed Whispers. Champions of the Just have 6 notable loot and 13 Codex Entries (http://dragonage.wik...ons_of_the_Just) compared to In Hushed Whispers which have 5 notable loot and 7 Codex Entries (http://dragonage.wik...Hushed_Whispers). On a side note, as a mage Herald, The Sunless Staff which you get from Champions of the Just is better than Staff of Stasis which you get In Hushed Whispers and as a rogue Herald, Audacity which you get from Champions of the Just is better than Bleeder of Souls which you get In Hushed Whispers.You also get extra Attribute points by besting Envy in the Fade but you do not get anything of the sort in the Dark Future.

 

4) Plot Coherence - The Templar path makes a lot more sense to the whole story compared to the Mage path. For one, Calpernia's Under Her Skin quest prepares you for What Pride Had Wrought quest because of all the references to Elven ruins, references to Calpernia being the Vessel and because of Corypheus' own reference to the Well of Sorrows. The Templar path also introduces us to the Memory Crystal which prepares us for the one we might get in Trespasser from Dorian. There is also the fact that Cassandra's personal quest, Promise of Destruction, ties in with the Templar Path since we actually know that Envy impersonated Lord Seeker instead of just hearsay. Finally, Varric's personal quest, Well Sh*t, explains how Corypheus got hold of Red Lyrium and what it actually is. This means that Samson's quest is quite pointless because we will know about Red Lyrium from Bianca. Finally, the killing blow comes in the form of the Temple of Dumat quest which will be further elaborated below.

 

5) Corypheus Himself - I often hear from many people that Corypheus is blank nonentity who is a lame villain. However, when you play the Templar path, Corypheus' motives are very well explained. In the Temple of Dumat quest, we come across Corypheus' journals where he talks about his agony over the silence of Dumat, his respect for Calpernia's abilities and subsequent elevation of Calpernia and his regret at using her as the Vessel. All of a sudden, this blank nonentity villain becomes someone that you can understand and someone that had emotional complexity. By contrast, the only interesting thing with Samson's quest was Maddox, who has next to nothing to do with Corypheus.

 

6) Sound & Animations - The stabbing of the weapon to the ground is something that Templars do. They did it once during Champions of the Just to fight the Envy Demon and it makes sense for you to see them doing it again to help the Herald close the Breach. In fact, the sound effect that plays is metal striking ground and the light that comes out when they do that move is also similar to the move Templars did when facing Envy. As for the mages, the only time mages slam their staff to the ground is when casting Horror, which doesn't really help. Lastly, in the Temple of Mythal questline, we see a cutscene where either the Venatori or the Red Templar kill an Ancient Elf by burning them with fire. Red Templars are not know to be able to conjure fire.

 

To conclude, I think that the Templar path is better than the Mage path. To add on this, I think the one of the main reason people choose the Mage path is because it is littered with cameos and recurrent characters such as Fiona, Connor, Alistair, Anora, and Samson. If you did not have them, I think the Mage path would be far less appealing.

 

Personally, my canonical world state is a Male Elven Mage Inquisitor who conscripted the Templars, managed to let Clan Lavellan become Wycome's ruler, had Cullen try to cure himself of Lyrium addiction, have Cassandra reform the Seekers, united Celene & Briala, romanced Josephine and made Leliana the Divine. That way the lyrium addicted Templar Order is gone, we only have reformed Seekers now, there are Elves ruling a human city without issues, we have good pro-Elven reforms from the Chantry and from Orlais, future mages have a fresh start and Lavellan can live a happy chill life in Antiva when its all over. As for how I justified not helping the Mages, Lavellan took one look at the Tevinter allying and enslaving with the Mages and gave the finger to the whole thing. Dalish Elves are not fond of Templars or Tevinter but he'd take a Templar over Tevinter slaver any day. He recruited the Tranquil Clemence before leaving though.

 

Thoughts & Comments ?


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#2
thats1evildude

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I agree on all points.

One minor correction: Barris becomes an agent for Cullen whether you freely ally or conscript the Templars. However, due to a bug, you may not get his War Table missions if you conscript the Templars.
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#3
Bayonet Hipshot

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I agree on all points.

One minor correction: Barris becomes an agent for Cullen whether you freely ally or conscript the Templars. However, due to a bug, you may not get his War Table missions if you conscript the Templars.

 

Fixed that. I did not have the bug with Barris fortunately and I got his War Table missions.



#4
Dai Grepher

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I skimmed a little, did you remember the +Attribute points you get from getting the better of Envy in the Fade section? Templar path is definately better.
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#5
Dabrikishaw

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Let's see, the last thread like this was made 2 months ago, so I think this will suffice.

 

 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but I'll say it as many times as I need to: There is no wrong way to go between mages or Templars. Both paths are viable and make sense depending on player biases and roleplaying,

 

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#6
Bayonet Hipshot

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I skimmed a little, did you remember the +Attribute points you get from getting the better of Envy in the Fade section? Templar path is definately better.

 

Yep. I forgot about that one. I have included it now.



#7
sniper_arrow

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I decided the Templar path to be my canon run because of Calpernia and Barris.


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#8
AlanC9

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I know we had a thread like this, but that was weeks ago. Is this thread an example of time magic?
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#9
Big I

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I agree that the templar path is the better written one, but I just care more about mages and their freedom than I ever will about templars. That's why I go with In Hushed Whispers every time.


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#10
sim-ran

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I completely agree. I'd rather support the mages than the Templars ideally but the Templar route works so much better as a story in this game.
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#11
wright1978

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I enjoyed in hushed whispers more of the 2 individual quests and more of my protagonists lean on the mage support side than not.


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#12
sim-ran

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Me too, but the other repercussions (the OP listed in painstaking detail) end up swinging it for me. I wish they had done this stuff differently, becuade if it weren't for those things I'd never take the templar path.
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#13
Terodil

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I agree with the OP on all counts.

Another one that kinda irked me, tbh: The game really rubs it in your face if you go pro-mage. People will criticise you every opportunity they get, you'll get wartable missions that make you second-guess your decision, companions will give you a lot of flak. Not so if you go the templar route. I really wonder why BW did that, considering that they tried very hard (and largely successfully) to make it impossible to pick a 'right' side.

P.S. Also, was I the only one to feel reminded of Tyrael?


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#14
AnimalBoy

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I'll stick with the mages.


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#15
Melyanna

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I agree with the OP on all counts.

Another one that kinda irked me, tbh: The game really rubs it in your face if you go pro-mage. People will criticise you every opportunity they get, you'll get wartable missions that make you second-guess your decision, companions will give you a lot of flak. Not so if you go the templar route. I really wonder why BW did that, considering that they tried very hard (and largely successfully) to make it impossible to pick a 'right' side.

P.S. Also, was I the only one to feel reminded of Tyrael?

 

I think it makes sense and is very coherent with the setting, considering you live in World where mages are thrown in towers or executed, or made tranquil when they are kids, and that they are considered to be very dangerous and at risk of becoming demons for no reason.

EDIT: I do agree with the OP 100%



#16
JadeDragon

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Agree 100%. Lets not forget Templar path also has more war table missions then the mage path. And it also has the only known judgement moment on the throne were you promote Ser Barris, a rare instance were your war table missions actually lead you to a cutscene.

 

Mages do get to have the judgement of Samson though after Arbor Wilds while I understand why we couldnt judge Calpernia(possible DA4 return).

 

Also the mages situation honestly takes care of it self thanks to trespassers epilogue no matter what choice you make for the mages they will always end up split into two factions: College of Enchanters(under Fiona if alive) and The Circle(under Vivienne if not Divine). Conscript or Allie does not matter for the future of the Dragon Age they will always end up resolving there own issue even if you side with the Templars the Mages still get a ending.

 

Templars on the other hand are effected differently by various variables: Are they allies or Conscripted, Did Cass rebuild the Seekers, who is Divine, and if Cullen is still taking lyrium or not. Each of these things effect the Templar Order differently, which only comes about if you side with them. If you side with Mages only your divine determines what becomes of the Templars and really only Cass and Viv.



#17
GoldenAngelHeart

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To be quite honest... Siding with either the Mages or Templar, Conscripting or Allying really depends on the mood I am in by the time I get to those two particular "bridges" I need to choose to cross in that time of my Play-Through. Half the time, I would rather just stab Fiona in the face than deal with her stupidity or vice versa with the Templars  and since I am being honest here, I really really don't care about any of the cameos that show up. 


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#18
In Exile

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I think the templar path suffers from three problems (which I think comes from the obvious fact that the paths were not so much meant to be exclusive at first but complenentary):

1) it is hard to find a satisfactory reason once you learn about the time magic to leave Redcliffe;
2) in your heart shall burn is superior from a narrative POV with red templars.

I'm also in the minority in that I think In Hushed Whispers provides a better set up for Corypheus than Champions of the Just.
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#19
In Exile

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I think the templar path suffers from two problems (which I think comes from the obvious fact that the paths were not so much meant to be exclusive at first but complenentary):

1) it is hard to find a satisfactory reason once you learn about the time magic to leave Redcliffe;
2) in your heart shall burn is superior from a narrative POV with red templars.

I'm also in the minority in that I think In Hushed Whispers provides a better set up for Corypheus than Champions of the Just.

#20
Bayonet Hipshot

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The funny thing about the Rebel Mages is that they never stopped for one moment to consider their position relative to the rest of Southern Thedas.

 

In Southern Thedas, unless if you are a noble or a rich merchant, your life is miserable. You can be forced to fight for rulers you did not vote for, you have to work hard to put food on the table, you have to maintain a decent shelter, and you have to be prepared to fight bandits and creatures like giant spiders. Additionally, unless if you are rich or is part of the nobility, you have no hope of getting a proper education. Healthcare and communication is awful.

 

Things are doubly worse for the Elves since many Humans view them with suspicion or outright hostility. As City Elves, their lives are worse than Human commoners. As Dalish Elves, they have to keep to the forests and be nomads so as to not attract too much Human attention.

 

Amidst all this, you have the Circle of Magi. The Circle of Magi is a system whereby someone who has magic is brought to live in a Circle. There they spend their days practicing scholarship or getting educated. They do not have to worry about education, food, shelter, clothing, healthcare and protection since this is all provided for free. Speaking of education, they have access to some of the best education that rival or even surpass education that nobles get. When it comes to racial and sexual equality, the Circle is once again ahead of the curve with mages of all races, sexes and sexualities being treated the same. Only in the Southern Circles, an Elf can rise to a leadership position while being around Humans. Oh and if a Circle Mage is a lesbian or gay, no one cares because they are not in Tevinter and they are not part of nobility.

 

The downside to this system is that the Circle Mage is not allowed to go out until they have passed their Harrowing and attained a sufficient rank within the Circle. This is a disadvantage but it varies in places. Val Royeaux is a glorious city and being locked out of it is unfair but Lake Calenhad is just surrounded by farms and nothing of particular interest. The other downside is that the system varies from Circle to Circle and some Circles are better than others, with Kirkwall's Circle being one of the worst. Some Circle allow family visitations, allow the apprentices to go out on supervised outings and whatnot wheras in some Circles, mages are abused and raped. Finally there is the Rite of Tranquility. Tranquilizing someone is clearly better than kicking them out of the clan and leaving them to fend off for themselves in the wilderness, which is what the Dalish do. However, the Rite is also open to abuse.

 

So clearly, what we need is a Circle Reformation. We need to make it so that the Circles of Magi everywhere allow family visitation, allow supervised apprentice outings,  do not abuse the Rite of Tranquility as well as curb abusive Templars. If you do that, you essentially have a system where someone can get one of the best education out there, good food, shelter, protection, clothing, and healthcare for free just because they have magic powers. Yes, for free. The mages who go to the Circle do not pay anything.

 

But nope, the Rebel Mages do not want that. They want to oppose the Chantry and oppose the Templars (both of whom give them free stuff when they are being nice, all mages need to do is push for reformations that make them nicer) without any form of long term logistical battle plan (which is what Fiona does) and when you raise this impossibility up, they call you names like bigot. No really, how did Fiona expect to wage war against an army of well trained mage hunters who can block or suppress magic while having to manage mages, some of whom are children and many of whom have never been exposed to the real world and all its harshness ? How did she think this rebellion was ever going to work, especially when she chose to rebel during a tense moment instead of waiting for things to cool down in Asunder ?


Modifié par BioWareMod02, 07 avril 2016 - 08:44 .

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#21
thats1evildude

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I think the templar path suffers from two problems (which I think comes from the obvious fact that the paths were not so much meant to be exclusive at first but complenentary):

1) it is hard to find a satisfactory reason once you learn about the time magic to leave Redcliffe;
2) in your heart shall burn is superior from a narrative POV with red templars.

I'm also in the minority in that I think In Hushed Whispers provides a better set up for Corypheus than Champions of the Just.


Well, you can solve Problem One by just not going to Redcliffe.

#22
thesuperdarkone2

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Well, you can solve Problem One by just not going to Redcliffe.


Which only makes sense if you don't like mages in general. If you don't, it doesn't makes sense to not at least hear the mages out who politely invite you to discuss terms as opposed to the Templars who told you to screw off
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#23
Heimdall

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Well, you can solve Problem One by just not going to Redcliffe.

Though that itself involves currying favor with nobles to travel twice the distance to convince a group that told you to f*ck off last time you saw them to meet with you versus traveling half the distance to meet with the group that has outright invited you. From a roleplaying perspective, I find it hard to justify not at least stopping in Redcliffe unless you just really don't want anything to do with mages.
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#24
Bayonet Hipshot

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Though that itself involves currying favor with nobles to travel twice the distance to convince a group that told you to f*ck off last time you saw them meet to with you versus traveling half the distance to meet with the group that has outright invited you. From a roleplaying perspective, I find it hard to justify not at least stopping in Redcliffe unless you just really don't want anything to do with mages.

 

You can snoop around Redcliffe just fine.

 

Context is important here. At that time, the Inquisition is a fledgling organization that is going around doing crappy quests in order to gain favors. Additionally, the Herald and their followers are at lower levels, meaning they are not at their best. So when confronted with a Tevinter magister who used dangerously unstable magic to lay a trap, it is sensible to get the hell outta dodge. Remember, the Inquisition's goal at the time is closing the Breach. To quote Cassandra "Closing the Breach is all that matters." Our goal is not to play hero and savior but to close the hole in the sky.

 

Furthermore, Alexius' forceful ousting of Arl Teagan, occupation of Redcliffe Castle means that this is no longer in the hands of the upstart Inquisition organization since this is something that should be handled by Ferelden Crown because Arl Teagan is part of the Ferelden ruling class. This is doubly relevant because it was the Ferelden Crown that gave the Rebel Mages refugee status and their indentured servitude makes them, on some level, complicit in the actions of Alexius. This means their fate is also up to the Ferelden Crown which granted them refugee status in the first place. The Inquisition having Orlesian soldiers or spies infiltrating and fighting at Redcliffe Castle can be considered an act of war.

 

Contrast this with the Templar path. You gather a group of Orlesian nobles, not soldiers or spies, to force the Templar Order, which is not under any form of refugee protection by the Ferelden Crown, to help the fledgling Inquisition to close the Breach. There is a higher chance for more things to go wrong with the mage questline versus the Templar one.


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#25
Beerfish

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Biancas just lucky that I can't help but like Varric in any of my games otherwise the murder knife would be coming out early and often.