173 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone2]

You can snoop around Redcliffe just fine.



Context is important here. At that time, the Inquisition is a fledgling organization that is going around doing crappy quests in order to gain favors. Additionally, the Herald and their followers are at lower levels, meaning they are not at their best. So when confronted with a Tevinter magister who used dangerously unstable magic to lay a trap, it is sensible to get the hell outta dodge. Remember, the Inquisition's goal at the time is closing the Breach. To quote Cassandra "Closing the Breach is all that matters." Our goal is not to play hero and savior but to close the hole in the sky.

Furthermore, Alexius' forceful ousting of Arl Teagan, occupation of Redcliffe Castle means that this is no longer in the hands of the upstart Inquisition organization since this is something that should be handled by Ferelden Crown because Arl Teagan is part of the Ferelden ruling class. This is doubly relevant because it was the Ferelden Crown that gave the Rebel Mages refugee status and their indentured servitude makes them, on some level, complicit in the actions of Alexius. This means their fate is also up to the Ferelden Crown which granted them refugee status in the first place. The Inquisition having Orlesian soldiers or spies infiltrating and fighting at Redcliffe Castle can be considered an act of war.

Contrast this with the Templar path. You gather a group of Orlesian nobles, not soldiers or spies, to force the Templar Order, which is not under any form of refugee protection by the Ferelden Crown, to help the fledgling Inquisition to close the Breach. There is a higher chance for more things to go wrong with the mage questline versus the Templar one.

Did you read my post earlier in this thread? It pretty much explains why helping the Mages makes more sense and is more urgent. Also,how do you think the Templars would act to being threatened into helping you?

[thats1evildude]

From a roleplaying perspective, I find it hard to justify not at least stopping in Redcliffe unless you just really don't want anything to do with mages.

 

I justify it from the perspective that:

 

1) My character is inclined to trust Templars over Mages

2) There's obviously something suspicious going on with the High Seeker that warrants investigation

3) Fiona kind of rubbed me the wrong way in Val Royeaux

[thesuperdarkone2]

I justify it from the perspective that:

1) My character is inclined to trust Templars over Mages
2) There's obviously something suspicious going on with the High Seeker that warrants investigation
3) Fiona kind of rubbed me the wrong way in Val Royeaux

1) why exactly would Templars who told you to go to hell be more trustworthy than the mages whose leader risked herself just to talk to you and politely invites you to a discussion

2) excel your character never acts like there is anything suspicious and acts like the lord seeker is just an *******

3) what exactly rubbed you wrong about Fiona? All she did was invite you to discuss potential terms

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Did you read my post earlier in this thread? It pretty much explains why helping the Mages makes more sense and is more urgent. Also,how do you think the Templars would act to being threatened into helping you?

 

1) Tevinter occupation of Redcliffe Castle = Something that should be handled by Ferelden Crown, not by an upstart organization using Orlesian soldiers and spies.

 

2) You are walking into a trap by going to the Redcliffe Chantry and/or going to Redcliffe Castle. On the surface of it, you are not walking into a trap by going to Therinfal Redoubt.

 

3) The War Table makes it quite clear that you will not be able to recruit the Templars if you go the Mage path and vice versa.

 

4) There are still Red Templars because there are still Red Lyrium. We see Venatori mages even if my pick the mage path.

 

5) I plan to consript Templars and have them shake of their Lyrium addiction. If they don't get a mention, its because their Order has been dissolved.

 

6) Time magic vs Demon gloating. Both are ridiculous but since we have seen demons before I'd take that over time magic.

 

7) The Templars took their conscription just fine. Heck, if you pick the mages path, you have to spend the whole game dealing with the fallout via War Table Quests.

[thats1evildude]

1) why exactly would Templars who told you to go to hell be more trustworthy than the mages whose leader risked herself just to talk to you and politely invites you to a discussion

2) excel your character never acts like there is anything suspicious and acts like the lord seeker is just an *******

3) what exactly rubbed you wrong about Fiona? All she did was invite you to discuss potential terms

 

1) Well, my Human Noble was slated to join the Templar Order one day, though he admittedly had some doubts about his obligation.

 

2) Cassandra's comments make it clear that the High Seeker is acting very out-of-character. Also, his codex suggested he was more of a moderate.

 

3) Fiona's suggestion that it HAD to be the Templars that caused the Breach kinda irked me. Like, come on. Templars did that?

 

I did actually go to Redcliffe once to see what the deal was, but Fiona selling the mages into slavery kind of sealed the deal. I loaded an earlier save and went to Therinfal.

[SnakeCode]

It's still endlessly bemusing (and hilarious) that there are people out there that will get genuinely upset and offended because people choose to side with a different faction than they did in a game.

[thesuperdarkone2]

It's still endlessly bemusing (and hilarious) that there are people out there that will get genuinely upset and offended because people decide to side with a different faction than they did in a game.

I know. Why do Templar supporters feel the need to constantly make threads acting like their preference for Templars is fact instead of just on opinion. Can't they just accept that the Templar path is not factually better

[Shechinah]

It's still endlessly bemusing (and hilarious) that there are people out there that will get genuinely upset and offended because people choose to side with a different faction than they did in a game.

 

Or how the decisions you make in a game is somehow evidence of what kind of person you are in real life.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I did actually go to Redcliffe once to see what the deal was, but Fiona selling the mages into slavery kind of sealed the deal. I loaded an earlier save and went to Therinfal.\

 

 

I didn't reload but instead looked around for any mages or tranquils who want to join the Inquisition. I managed to get two of them and then I went back to Skyhold and decided to get on with Templar conscription. I mean, I tried looking around and you would think there would be more Rebel Mages who want to get out of Redcliffe.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

I am saddened to see so much "I think" and "I chose" here.  I would have hoped role playing would have had you guys doing what "my character thinks" and "my character chose" this path or that path.  I, the player behind the controls, thought both paths were great, but my characters chose one of the other based on their own viewpoints which have nothing to do with me, the player behind the controls.

 

It's unfortunate y'all get so caught up in personally having a hatred of either templars or mages that you let that influence your ability to roleplay something you may personally have no taste for.

[In Exile]

Please explain this. I would like to hear how In Hushed Whispers explains Corypheus better because the Temple of Dumat's quest is a corollary of Champions of the Just.

There is an important distinction: setting up the villain is not quite the same as explaining the villain.

I went over this in more detail in the other thread. The short of it is that In Hushed Whispers, while hokey, shows an apocalyptic world caused by the "Elder One". It is a world devoured by the Fade and especially by Red Lyrium™. People are being devoured by it. In the scene with Alexius, when the Elder One arrives, you hear his red lyrium dragon "thud" and roar.

In Your Heart Shall Burn starts on a high note - the Breach seems to be closed, for a time. You have a bit of a party. And all of a sudden you see a legion of twisted monsters - the Red Templars - swarming over the land. You see the twisted form of Corypheus - who ended up winning! - and eventually have the red lyrium dragon break your forces. All the while, for the rest to the story, the fact that Corypheus wins hangs over you and your efforts. The tension comes from the fact that you know - in each scenario you come in - that without you there Corypheus wins. The moment the Inquisition forms feels more like a beacon of light.

Champions of the Just is the opposite. Corypheus fails with the red templars. Instead of an army of monsters, he has people - cultists, but people. We know his plans, and we just see ourselves triumph. The Inquisitor just goes from one win to the next, and there's nothing that makes Corypheus seem all that threatening.

Sure, we learn more about his motivation. And there's value in the idea of a villain basically being the trope that the future villain subverts (since Corypheus is essentially just Solas). But it never makes him feel threatening.

[In Exile]

Well, you can solve Problem One by just not going to Redcliffe.

That doesn't work for me because there's no reason to visit the templars at all after the Lord Seeker tells you to go **** yourself and punches a Chantry sister in the mouth. I suppose you can reason as Cullen does but to me it seems that's a weak reason not to go to Redcliffe, especially as reaching out to the templars is supposed to take time.

I played it off as the Inquisitor thinking the plan by Leliana was too risky, and if Alexius was really so dangerous, then templars were necessary in their full power to combat him.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

When it comes to Samson and Calpernia, I think that regardless of which path you chose they should both have played their parts. There was a lot of potential at them being a dark mirror of the Chantry, with Samson being Corypheus' Right Hand and Calpernia being his Left Hand. This also applies to their quests and the revelations within. 

 

As for the rest, I have to disagree. Just because someone doesn't leave Skyhold doesn't mean they aren't helping the Inquisition. Our advisers almost never leave Skyhold, and yet the Inquisition would collapse without them since they are always helping it. Fiona is doing something similar. In Hushed Whispers is the better of the missions story-wise because it shows you what will happen if you fail, not just a trick from some demon but actual reality, and that serves as a driving force for why you must succeed. 

[Medhia_Nox]

I have Cassandra and Cullen in my forces... even on the most "warlord" level... killing the Lord Seeker and having Cassandra grab the reigns of the Templars would be far easier than landing in a war with the might of Tevinter - we don't yet know the Venatori are a fringe group. 

 

"Who" was killing the refugee Tranquil?  

 

There weren't enough Venatori in Redcliff for that operation.

 

Did Fiona know about it?   

[Cute Nug]

I am saddened to see so much "I think" and "I chose" here.  I would have hoped role playing would have had you guys doing what "my character thinks" and "my character chose" this path or that path.  I, the player behind the controls, thought both paths were great, but my characters chose one of the other based on their own viewpoints which have nothing to do with me, the player behind the controls.

 

It's unfortunate y'all get so caught up in personally having a hatred of either templars or mages that you let that influence your ability to roleplay something you may personally have no taste for.

 

I don't hate mages or templars. I do wish most mages you meet wouldn't turn into abominations, blood mages, harvester monsters, and Ventori cultists. I just get bored having to kill so many of them. Can't they have other hobbies other than evil. And I just pity the Pimplars.

 

I do totally hate psycho bears, wolves, and spiders in Thedas. And shards. I hate shards.

 

"I prefer" the pimplar tract in DAI but I enjoyed the mage tracts best in DAO and DA2. I had a character do (RPish) each tract in DAI and mostly enjoyed both for those characters.

 

I only have a taste for roleplaying IRL with sexy bedroom stuff. 

 

 wakes up in a room filled with flower pots, scarecrows, a dragon egg, some bottles of unknown fluid, a whip, a trellis or monkey bars, and a ring of practice dummies with a wooden fish statue in the middle

[Beren Von Ostwick]

I do totally hate psycho bears

 

   We really need a "I survived Hafter's Woods" support group.

[Ieldra]

@OP:

As much as I like the mage path, and couldn't do anything other for my main Inquisitor, I have to agree on almost all points. Calpernia and her story alone makes the Templar path superior in storytelling. My personal antipathy against the Templars and what they represent prevent me from mkaing Inquisitors who would choose this path all that often, but it is rather well made.

 

The exception is the recruitment mission. I like "In Hushed Whispers" better than "Champions of the Just". The main reason is that the story of the envy demon didn't do anything for me. Both paths show you possible dark sides of the power represented by the path you've chosen, but what Envy showed be left me completely cold. Time magic, however, that has impact, as has any power that has such large-scale effects without the need for armies. I'm speaking mainly for my main Inquisitor when I say this, but this impression and my personal thematic preferences are so strong that I'm hard-pressed to make Inquisitors that think differently, however different they are in other things. And that Corypheus represents that power and we end up fighting him makes this mission have more storytelling impact than Champions of the Just.

[GreaterGoodIreland]

The Templar path is better because Calpurnia is a human being, whereas Samson is a cartoon. And the quests are better, more revealing of the characters involved.

 

But then, it does have a mind-reading demon involved, which might as well wear a sign saying "Great Author Trick" in glowing neon letters.

[thats1evildude]

Real world issues gonna get this thread locked. Which might be for the best. The point has been made; everything else is bickering.

[BioWareMod02]

Hello everyone. Please keep it on topic and avoid discussion real world religion or politics. Thank you.

[MyKingdomCold]

The Templar path would've been better if you could've said, "Hey, dumb f***s why are you taking red lyrium? Haven't you heard of it?"

[Qis]

4) It is a fact that Malaysians do not have freedom of speech and lack the first amendment. It is a fact that Malaysia is a country that is homophobic and antisemitic. It is a fact that Islamic beliefs hinder non-Muslims when it comes to wearing certain types of clothing or drinking a certain kind of beverage or eating a certain kind of food. It is a fact that Christians in Malaysia have been oppressed, just take a look at the Bible controversy. It is also a fact that Chinese are seen as Yahudi Kuning (translated as Yellow Jew) but some Malays.Those are facts, whether they are sh*t or not is irrelevant. If you want to have a discussion with me though, use the PM. I can supply you with all the sources that back up my claims.

 

Malaysia is UN member who actively practice Human Rights, also actively joining UN missions with MALBATT. Homophobic? Tell me ONE homosexuals who being persecuted, stoned to death or beheaded in Malaysia. Anti-semitic? Are there Jews in Malaysia? Maybe, but none i am aware off. Clothings? Do you ever watch the TV or read magazines? There is no such thing as clothing rule in Malaysia, you just need to wear modestly in government offices as far as i am aware of such rules. Christians oppressed? Tell me how many big churches are there in Malaysia and tell me which Malaysians don't celebrate Christmass? Bible controversy, well it's a controversy, and it have been resolved, even the Pope don't agree using "Allah" replacing "God" in Malay translation Bible because it is not what the word mean. I am Malay, i don't know any Malays call Chinese that, but if you actively looking at bigot sites or racist sites then maybe you find one. i also could quote any racial slurs from racist and Chinese bigots anytime. Since you post this public, i reply in public.

 

Christians oppressed in Malaysia? lol

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

*snip*

 

I told you take it to PM.

 

Anyway, back on topic. Even if I did choose the Mage path, I would have picked Mage conscription. I am in favor of conscripting both Mages and Templars.

[Face of Evil]

The Templar path would've been better if you could've said, "Hey, dumb f***s why are you taking red lyrium? Haven't you heard of it?"

 

Well, that's explained. Their leader had been replaced with a demon serving Corypheus and the commanders were fed red lyrium first to minimize dissent. The lower-ranking templars had no idea what was happening.

[MyKingdomCold]

I know but I guess they've never heard of red lyrium? I know Barris says something about it being a different kind of lyrium. But it happens to be red.