173 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Well, that's explained. Their leader had been replaced with a demon serving Corypheus and their commanders were given red lyrium first. The templars were, by and large, tricked into becoming monsters.

 

Yes this. But since I am conscripting them and later putting them through Cullen's Lyrium addicition curing regime, its not a big issue for me. I mean Barris says that the Templar leaders sometimes give the recruits strangely colored Lyrium so I assume they Templars thought it was another round of experimentation.

 

 

I know but I guess they've never heard of red lyrium? I know Barris says something about it being a different kind of lyrium. But it happens to be red.

 

The higher ups have. Barris calls it the red stuff. Btw, I like your avatar, centipede. Very high energy.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Malaysia is UN member who actively practice Human Rights, also actively joining UN missions with MALBATT. Homophobic? Tell me ONE homosexuals who being persecuted, stoned to death or beheaded in Malaysia. Anti-semitic? Are there Jews in Malaysia? Maybe, but none i am aware off. Clothings? Do you ever watch the TV or read magazines? There is no such thing as clothing rule in Malaysia, you just need to wear modestly in government offices as far as i am aware of such rules. Christians oppressed? Tell me how many big churches are there in Malaysia and tell me which Malaysians don't celebrate Christmass? Bible controversy, well it's a controversy, and it have been resolved, even the Pope don't agree using "Allah" replacing "God" in Malay translation Bible because it is not what the word mean. I am Malay, i don't know any Malays call Chinese that, but if you actively looking at bigot sites or racist sites then maybe you find one. i also could quote any racial slurs from racist and Chinese bigots anytime. Since you post this public, i reply in public.

 

Christians oppressed in Malaysia? lol

 

Nice to see someone willing to take a stand

[thats1evildude]

I know but I guess they've never heard of red lyrium? I know Barris says something about it being a different kind of lyrium. But it happens to be red.

Barris says they try out different types of lyrium from time to time.

Note that very little about red lyrium is known. It appeared once: during the final battle of Kirkwall. We know it's bad because we were there, but the same can't be said of the rank-and-file Templar.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Barris says they try out different types of lyrium from time to time.

Note that very little about red lyrium is known. It only appeared once: during the final battle of Kirkwall.

 

This too. Until we meet Bianca, we know very little about it. This is just an assumption but IMO the Red Lyrium was like the Spiderman Symbiote. The stuff makes you stronger but it screws you up really bad.

[In Exile]

I'm not sure why blindingly following orders here is an excuse.

[thats1evildude]

I'm not sure why blindingly following orders here is an excuse.

Because it's a quasi-military organization and they have no compelling reason not to follow orders?

[In Exile]

Because it's a quasi-military organization and they have no compelling reason not to follow orders?

Yeah, that's not exculpatory at all. That you willing decide to subordinate your autonomy doesn't absolve you - it just makes you culpable for decisions that you don't control or make.

But, as always, it's not the point about just drinking whatever toxic drugs your boss gives you that stands out to me. It's the entirety of their acquiesce to the abuses they perpetrated and their willingness to, for example, abandon their church as heretics over the word of their leader and the pretext of an inapplicable millennium year old document.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Blindly following orders is not an excuse, hence me conscripting the Templars.

[Terodil]

https://www.icrc.org.../v2_rul_rule154

"Obedience to Superior Orders". Some interesting reading in this context.

Also, "no strong reason"? Is saving the lives of people "no strong reason"?

[In Exile]

The templars have no real reason to believe many of the orders they get are illegal. Many of them align with that moral code.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Blindly following orders is not an excuse, hence me conscripting the Templars.

Yet after Trespasser, the Templars are free to do whatever they want. If you conscript them, you've acknowledge that templars can't be trusted with doing whatever they want.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Yet after Trespasser, the Templars are free to do whatever they want. If you conscript them, you've acknowledge that templars can't be trusted with doing whatever they want.

 

In my world state, there are no Templars post-Trespasser because they decided to follow in Cullen's footsteps and Leliana does not create new Templars as the Divine. There are also next to no rebel mages either. Its blank slate.

[thesuperdarkone2]

In my world state, there are no Templars post-Trespasser because they decided to follow in Cullen's footsteps and Leliana does not create new Templars as the Divine. There are also next to no rebel mages either. Its blank slate.

Except the order may not exist but the soldiers do. After Trespasser, the Inquisition is either disbanded completely or severely reduced as the Divine's honor guard. 

 

Either way, a lot of templars are going to without a job. What do you think they are going to do?

 

It's funny how this state is almost the same as one where the Inquisition is Divine Leliana's honor guard and you sided with the mages. At least in that one, more innocents are safe.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Except the order may not exist but the soldiers do. After Trespasser, the Inquisition is either disbanded completely or severely reduced as the Divine's honor guard. 

 

Either way, a lot of templars are going to without a job. What do you think they are going to do?

 

It's funny how this state is almost the same as one where the Inquisition is Divine Leliana's honor guard and you sided with the mages. At least in that one, more innocents are safe.

 

There are no Templars because they are all on their way of curing their Lyrium addiction my dear. Afterwards they just become regular combatants.

[thesuperdarkone2]

There are no Templars because they are all on their way of curing their Lyrium addiction my dear. Afterwards they just become regular combatants.

Unless Vivienne's circle uses templars

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Which only makes sense if you don't like mages in general. If you don't, it doesn't makes sense to not at least hear the mages out who politely invite you to discuss terms as opposed to the Templars who told you to screw off

 

Then you go there, find they sold out to Tevinter, laugh and go hear out the Templars.

[stop_him]

Opinions are facts now?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Opinions are facts now?

Apparently yes. Seriously, what was the point of this thread? Did templar supporters really need an echo chamber about how much they love templars?

 

 

Also, things like "the only reason people side with mages are the cameos". Does the OP seriously think things like that?

[KaiserShep]

Eh, I still prefer the mage path. Champions of the Just does have its good moments, and it does provide a better intro for Cole, but as I'm more a fan of Dorian and do prefer seeing a glimpse into the future in which the Inquisitor fails to stop the Breach, I typically just go for the mages. Plus, I like Cullen's reaction to Cole telling us that the Templars are coming to kill us. 

[Xerrai]

Ok, I remember this. Yeah...wasn't this exact same topic that popped up months ago? Jesus, guys, no one choice is better. No need to get your feathers ruffled  just because your opinion is not the one everyone agrees with.

 

Fiona acted rashly and ended up getting indentured, had an inadvertent hand (probably) in the murder of several tranquil, and basically screwed all of the mages over to being the Venatori's slaves under a nicer name. The mages are flawed. But so are the Templars. My thoughts on why are thus:

 

​If there was one fatal flaw that I could ascribe to the Templars as a general whole (exceptions notwithstanding), it is that they refuse to question. Conservative ideals aside, all attempted discussion to improve the lives of mages have usually met with either deaf ears (typically when it comes from mages) or stubborn refusal (as seen with the Divine). Many are so self-assured that they are right that they do not even try to look for evidence or explanations. Others who do question are usually encouraged not to--if not blatantly ordered not to--by more conservative high figures who basically rule many of its upper positions. For an organization that is supposed to investigate the potential corruption of mages, their inability to even try and identify their own is their great folly.

A folly that culminated in the quest Champions of the Just. Demon or not, red lyrium had obvious ill effects that should have been easily detected by even the smallest ingestion (itching, irritation, sometimes burning and hallucinations etc.) that coupled with its unusual amount of power. Yet somehow, all of the Templars' higher chains of command become addicted to the stuff (barring a few noted deaths that also go unnoticed). The corruption of their higher tier going unnoticed only highlights how the Templar's zealous devotion to 'duty' by unquestioning obedience is taken to a dangerous extreme. One that could spell their downfall if not for the intervention of the Inquisition.

​

[KaiserShep]

I will say, as bad as it was what happened to the Tranquil, I honored their sacrifice with sweet elemental resistance, and lots of gold. 

[Vilio1]

I did play the templar quest only once, and probably won't do it again. The mission itself isn't bad, but I felt guilty about abandoning Fiona and all the innocent people in Redcliff to their fate while at the same time I can't say the same about the templars. As one of the chantry sisters put it: "We wanted the templars to treat mages more fairly and they rebelled for it." I simply can't feel sorry for them and that's the main difference for me.

In addition, I get more Leliana and Dorian in IHW.

[BansheeOwnage]

I did play the templar quest only once, and probably won't do it again. The mission itself isn't bad, but I felt guilty about abandoning Fiona and all the innocent people in Redcliff to their fate while at the same time I can't say the same about the templars. As one of the chantry sisters put it: "We wanted the templars to treat mages more fairly and they rebelled for it." I simply can't feel sorry for them and that's the main difference for me.

In addition, I get more Leliana and Dorian in IHW.

I remember when Bioware said you could either send Cullen or Leliana to Redcliffe... and the mission would change. Yeah, never happened.

[Gold Dragon]

The only reason that one of my characters goes the templar route is that she is smitten by Cullen (Romanced) and wants to get in his good graces (Gamewise I know fully well it doesn't really matter).

 

The other char is a Qunari Mage.  One who doesn't really trust Templars after that stunt in Val Royeaux.

[sim-ran]

I remember when Bioware said you could either send Cullen or Leliana to Redcliffe... and the mission would change. Yeah, never happened.

You know I never thought of that. It would have made a lot of sense for Cullen to be involved in that quest. Why on earth isn't he there for the negotiations?!

And now I think of it, what is supposed to become of Samson/Calpernia if you choose the mage/templar route? It's like they don't exist! Neither were involved in the mage/templar quests, so they wouldn't have been killed in the proceedings, and they'd still have a use after, as Corypheus has a sizable number of mages and red templars regardless.

I get how they wanted to give us a different experience for the different routes, but the story should make sense.

Though On the other hand I like not seeing Samson. That moment where he reveals his motives for is actions in the judgement is crotch-punchingly stupid.