138 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

Of course, there has never been a case where it was deemed that a certain technology was not worth using. Absolutely never.

 

It's actually a funny example, because while nuclear weapons are not used every day in a sense of blowing up things, they are used indirectly all the time as a balancing force and a very real deterrence against something like WW3.

 

Not to mention nuclear power plants.

 

 

And when it comes to "rights", the difference is obvious: I have a right on my own body, and you have a right on yours.

Your right on your own body is not enough to allow you to prevent me to do something to my body, only because you fear that in the far future it might lead to an undesirable outcome for you.

 

At least that is what my common sense and understanding of democracy and basic rights say.

[Ieldra]

It is very easy to say "deal with it" if you're not the one who is going to have to deal with it.

I am, in fact, imagining situations where I'd have to deal with it, and my position remains the same. I don't have the right to impose my personal, more restrictive rules on others, and I am prepared to deal with the consequences. On the positive side, I suspect that such technology would lead to the establishment of widely divergent lifestyles, with a place for almost everyone.

[Gwydden]

At least that is what my common sense and understanding of democracy and basic rights say.

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as you make it seem. After all, society already regulates what I can do with my body. For some mysterious reason, I would be reprimanded if I were to move my fist into a position that is already occupied by another person's face. Having my body walk into the neighbor's house without invitation would also be rather questionable. Having my extremities drive a car while not having a license on my clothes also gets people with arms up in the air, strangely enough. With that in mind, I think wondering whether you should be allowed to exercise your freedom if it diminishes that of others seems reasonable.

 

I am, in fact, imagining situations where I'd have to deal with it, and my position remains the same. I don't have the right to impose my personal, more restrictive rules on others, and I am prepared to deal with the consequences. On the positive side, I suspect that such technology would lead to the establishment of widely divergent lifestyles, with a place for almost everyone.

I hope you are right and, if that were the case, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it. I welcome diversity, and that is really the root of my concern: that certain forms of diversity will die out. Maybe I am being overly fatalistic, but I tend to think that expecting the worst tends to lead to the most pleasant surprises 

 

Trying to take this back to the subject at hand... We know Andromeda is pretty old, and pretty big and, as far as we know, it's never had cycles. How do you guys think they'll get around making the Andromeda aliens so technologically advanced that they're practically all-powerful when compared to the much abused Milkies?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Trying to take this back to the subject at hand... We know Andromeda is pretty old, and pretty big and, as far as we know, it's never had cycles. How do you guys think they'll get around making the Andromeda aliens so technologically advanced that they're practically all-powerful when compared to the much abused Milkies?

Find out that during the 50,000 years the Reapers don't nap but do that voodoo that they do so well in other galaxies, in this case Andromeda. 

[Gwydden]

Find out that during the 50,000 years the Reapers don't nap but do that voodoo that they do so well in other galaxies, in this case Andromeda. 

I've thought of that but... sounds kind of lame and lazy 

 

I mean, Reapers cannot be the answer to everything, right?

[Ieldra]

Trying to take this back to the subject at hand... We know Andromeda is pretty old, and pretty big and, as far as we know, it's never had cycles. How do you guys think they'll get around making the Andromeda aliens so technologically advanced that they're practically all-powerful when compared to the much abused Milkies?

Civilizations have natural life cycles. As I see it, they can choose the scenario freely. There's all kinds of stuff that can result in disaster or regression. Supernovae, interstellar wars, eezo shortage (or whatever rare stuff they're using), synthetics uprising, decadence....the list is endless.

The only thing I don't want are the Reapers.

[Laughing_Man]

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as you make it seem. After all, society already regulates what I can do with my body. For some mysterious reason, I would be reprimanded if I were to move my fist into a position that is already occupied by another person's face. Having my body walk into the neighbor's house without invitation would also be rather questionable. Having my extremities drive a car while not having a license on my clothes also gets people with arms up in the air, strangely enough. With that in mind, I think wondering whether you should be allowed to exercise your freedom if it diminishes that of others seems reasonable.

 

Do you really fail to understand the difference or is this just for argument sake?

 

There is still a clear line between directly harming someone, or offending someone else's religious, philosophical, or hypothetical beliefs by doing something that has no direct impact on them, and is truly not even aimed or intended in an offensive manner. The only motive here is self improvement.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've thought of that but... sounds kind of lame and lazy 

 

I mean, Reapers cannot be the answer to everything, right?

I don't think so, at least in this case. It keeps us from facing down a civilization that could crush us in an instant, we don't have to worry about whatever wiped the advanced civilizations out since we know what happens to the Reapers, it lets us have one of the icons of the franchise in the games, and it has the new aliens using technology that utilizes what the franchise is named after.

[Gwydden]

I don't think so, at least in this case. It keeps us from facing down a civilization that could crush us in an instant, we don't have to worry about whatever wiped the advanced civilizations out since we know what happens to the Reapers, it lets us have one of the icons of the franchise in the games, and it has the new aliens using technology that utilizes what the franchise is named after.

I see your point, but I'm more in Ieldra's camp. There are many plausible and much more interesting possibilities than Reapers. I just hope they go for them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I see your point, but I'm more in Ieldra's camp. There are many plausible and much more interesting possibilities than Reapers. I just hope they go for them.

I don't see any, at least not without lore being thrown away somewhere. 

[Laughing_Man]

I don't see any, at least not without lore being thrown away somewhere. 

 

And as we all know, Bioware is really gentle and careful with retcons and adhering to their lore...

 

The Reapers are not such a great plot device, not after they have been tainted by the Catalyst's anti-logic.

But yeah, they may make things more manageable, who knows. At this point it's not going to change much for me, one way or the other.

[fizzypop]

It is possible, though not for our generation, and not in ways familiar to us. Exploring the galaxy will require generation ships and/or cryosleep, and our civilization will have to start thinking in centuries and millenia, a significant adjustment in human psychological disposition. But then, we'll have to start thinking that way in order to survive in the first place, so that would be a good additional motivator. Also, living that long shouldn't be too much of a hurdle once humanity gets over its silly reluctance to make itself subject of its own artifice.

 

What, most likely, it will never be is easy. Zipping around the galaxy like Commander Shepard, that won't happen. But that won't make it any less fascinating. Explore those SF worlds where FTL isn't possible and you'll see that. The most disappointing thing that could happen is that we won't find any traces of other civilizations. Unfortunately, given Fermi's paradox and the size of the galaxy, that appears to be rather likely.

The problem is even with generational ships we would have insignificant medical issues. A trip to Mars and back is literally the max exposure a person should ever be subjected too. That itself is only hypothetically as we have never done it. Think about how much we would get the further we go. Cosmic radiation is a real problem even the small amounts we get on the ISS has caused problems, they have the added benefit of some protection by earth. We would also need to create gravity because even the exercise that people in the ISS are doing isn't enough, they still lose permanent bone mass. Our bodies are just not suitable for that kind of trip especially not long-term travel. There is just a lot of road blocks we would have to overcome. Genetic modification would probably be the only route to make us space faring without lots of medical issues.

[Draining Dragon]

Ladies and gentlemen, I have found the solution to all our problems.

 

We must consult with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

[SKAR]

I was just answering your question about "does any science fiction title have any real basis in science?". The answer is yes, there are.

you're right. But most of the stuff in science fiction works in theory. We have no way of knowing yet.

[KamuiStorm]

A post about mass effects science after my now deleted post with a video of how mass effects science doesn't make any damn sense. Hmmmm, I don't think this is a coincidence.

(So I don't get suspended again for false reasons, the context of the word damn is as follows.
1. to declare (something) to be bad, unfit, invalid, or illegal.
2. to condemn as a failure

In other words I'm using the word in the sense of saying mass effects science is invalid or a failure or bad, which you have to admit at times mes science is really lacking. So in short, due to the context used the word cannot be deemed as foul.)

[BioFan (Official)]

A post about mass effects science after my now deleted post with a video of how mass effects science doesn't make any damn sense. Hmmmm, I don't think this is a coincidence.
 

 

Sorry you feel that way, but I've been planning this for a while. And also don't know about the video which you speak. Tho i'll agree being that the original trilogy invented it's own science, it's not exactly accurate. Tho that's fiction. This video explores things about the galaxy itself that COULD contribute to the story. I wouldn't go casting blame until we know how they handle things in Andromeda. 

[Fuenf789]

Ladies and gentlemen, I have found the solution to all our problems.

We must consult with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Hehe- you meant that humourously - that guy is the pinnacle of cognitive dissonance with his own philopsophy. But he doesn't belief in philosophy. But he has one. Circular reference right there. It's a good example of "shoemaker stick to your last" - trying to explain everything from one perspective only. And totally be unstudied in other sciences. Hey, microbiology is a science, but who needs that if you can try to explain everything through astronomy?

Since the posts in this thread didn't address this yet. I'll throw in some salt. For comic relief of the dunno crowd.

Good Science Fiction does not mix the improbable with the unexplainable. Bad science fiction does.

Example: movies
Bad science = "Gravity" : jumping from space station to space station repetitively [3 x], by guessing only, at the correct speed, angle , taking into account that everything moves at different speeds in varying directions.
Good science ="interstellar" : falling into a 5 dimensional tesseract.
Bad science = "interstellar" : but then finding his daugther's small bedroom in all the possible universes and times only through love.
Bad science = armageddon : burning and fire explosion happens incredibly long in space.( and with sound). Hitting a high tech thruster with a heavy wrench everywhere makes it miraculously work again.
Good science = star wars : pod racing, laser swords
Bad science = star wars : the rest of star wars (sounds, coincidences), designing a military weapon the size of the moon with a critical flaw
...At its surface.
You got the drift...

Oh btw: neil d' tyson found interstellar scientific "highly" accurate. Yeah right. (Now give him that kickback below the table)

[Ieldra]

Sorry you feel that way, but I've been planning this for a while. And also don't know about the video which you speak. Tho i'll agree being that the original trilogy invented it's own science, it's not exactly accurate. Tho that's fiction. This video explores things about the galaxy itself that COULD contribute to the story. I wouldn't go casting blame until we know how they handle things in Andromeda. 

To be precise, it's the non-fake science that ME got inaccurate (grossly wrong, actually), while the fake science is not susceptible to reality checks and thus can't be inaccurate, but it was inconsistent. To add to that, science on both sides, fictional and non-fictional, was regularly broken for convenience, for shoving themes or morality in people's faces or the rule of cool. Thus, ME failed spectacularly at presenting science and technology on both sides, the fictional and the non-fictional part, and that's not exactly a mark of honor.

 

So forgive me for being skeptical about MEA in this. I did like your video though. it's probably nothing new for most of us here, but sadly, the general public will be a little more ignorant about these things. As for contributing to the story, I don't think anything specific to the Andromeda galaxy could, because these specifics exist on a scale that tends to be irrelevant to the stories told. In addition, SF writers have no sense of scale after all, and ME is one of the more drastic examples. One thing they could do to improve the bad impression inherited from the trilogy is make a trailer where the problems of the emigrating ship's or fleet's intergalactic voyage are addressed in a somewhat plausible manner. Intergalactic emigration would be a daunting enterprise even for an interstellar civilization, and it should be presented that way. Well, unless they just found an intergalactic matter transmitter powered by six stars (points for knowing the reference).

[KamuiStorm]

Sorry you feel that way, but I've been planning this for a while. And also don't know about the video which you speak. Tho i'll agree being that the original trilogy invented it's own science, it's not exactly accurate. Tho that's fiction. This video explores things about the galaxy itself that COULD contribute to the story. I wouldn't go casting blame until we know how they handle things in Andromeda.

it's a conspiracy I say! -twitches-, well science fantasy is what the games have been leaning more towards lately but it is still somewhat in the scifi genre. I'm not Casting blame on anyone, after all it's the fan base that allows said games to even exist. If anyone gets blame it'll be us fans for not being demanding enough. Plus it seems leldra saved me some typing by pretty much elaborating on mes "science". Anywho -continues twitching- Conspiracy!

[goishen]

Hehe- you meant that humourously - that guy is the pinnacle of cognitive dissonance with his own philopsophy. But he doesn't belief in philosophy. But he has one. Circular reference right there. It's a good example of "shoemaker stick to your last" - trying to explain everything from one perspective only. And totally be unstudied in other sciences. Hey, microbiology is a science, but who needs that if you can try to explain everything through astronomy?

Since the posts in this thread didn't address this yet. I'll throw in some salt. For comic relief of the dunno crowd.

Good Science Fiction does not mix the improbable with the unexplainable. Bad science fiction does.

 

[snip]

 

 

If you wanna spend the next three-six months bored off'a your ass piloting a manned space exploration probe to Mars, go ahead.  Be my guest.  I think, very truthfully, that most people forget how big space is.  Some people like that.  I don't, I think that it's extremely boring and we need some rocket scientist (literally) to come up with an engine that can move a lot faster than what we currently have.  And, in order to do that, we would need some kind of shield so that it wouldn't blow our ship apart.  So have fun figuring that out, unless you mean steel plating.  Which would, of course, take away from the engines.

 

So, to me...   I don't care if it breaks all the laws of physics.  It's still a fun game, with just enough science to get me by.

[Fuenf789]

If you wanna spend the next three-six months bored off'a your ass piloting a manned space exploration probe to Mars, go ahead. Be my guest. I think, very truthfully, that most people forget how big space is. Some people like that. I don't, I think that it's extremely boring and we need some rocket scientist (literally) to come up with an engine that can move a lot faster than what we currently have. And, in order to do that, we would need some kind of shield so that it wouldn't blow our ship apart. So have fun figuring that out, unless you mean steel plating. Which would, of course, take away from the engines.

So, to me... I don't care if it breaks all the laws of physics. It's still a fun game, with just enough science to get me by.

So you are for silly science fiction- bruce willis/john rambo running through an army of people shooting at him and everybody missing. James bond running of a cliff, behind a pilotless plane - and fly off into the sunset. I would say it's highly improbable and cheap slapstick - you , on the other hand, don't care, as long as you see boom-boom and pew-pew.

If bioware invent some science fiction where bruce willis wears some armor that will excite his body to resonate in 2 THz band and the bullets won't affect him - then we're back to science fiction. Or james bond create a micro black hole to suck him 50m forward . Science fiction. But not silly forgotten logic.

So we have different quality expectations.

[goishen]

So you are for silly science fiction- bruce willis/john rambo running through an army of people shooting at him and everybody missing. James bond running of a cliff, behind a pilotless plane - and fly off into the sunset. I would say it's highly improbable and cheap slapstick - you , on the other hand, don't care, as long as you see boom-boom and pew-pew.

If bioware invent some science fiction where bruce willis wears some armor that will excite his body to resonate in 2 THz band and the bullets won't affect him - then we're back to science fiction. Or james bond create a micro black hole to suck him 50m forward . Science fiction. But not silly forgotten logic.

So we have different quality expectations.

 

 

You are conflating the two genres of sci-fi and action.  Don't.  I never said that I wanted our next protagonist to be the A-Team or Commando.  I'm speaking purely of sci-fi.

[KamuiStorm]

Guise you do know that owo, Stephen hawking & some russian bajillionaire teamed up to launch a plethora of starchips into alpha centuri right? How? Well by building some schweet mind blowing technology of course.

The crafts would come equipped with a “StarChip,” a gram-scale wafer carrying cameras, photon thrusters, power supply, navigation, and communication equipment. A Lightsail, a meter-scale sail no more than a few hundred atoms thick, would move the ship forward after an array of lasers back on Earth are used to accelerate it. These things will be reaching speeds of up to 20% that of sol and will somehow be propelled via light.

It all makes sense now, we've shrunk ourselves onboard a tiny computer chip sized ark to hide from the reapers and journey to andromeda where we'll unshrink ourselves. Pure genius.

[Addictress]

For me, particular images are necessary to evoke the real science we know today, to lend the game the ability to inspire me to feel hope for science as it is. In a sense that is always why I'm drawn to sci-fi in the first place: I want to feel inspired by real science and feel hope for the future.

In order to properly excite me, I will grant them fictional liberties. But in order to make the connection to real science and have that grounding symbolism there, we need images or sounds that remind of current science.

This is why I get angry when people want to throw away the desolate side planets from Mass Effect 1, and make all planets we encounter habitable and feature-rich worlds. Mass Effect 1 wasn't necessarily scientifically sound across the board, but the side planets on which we manned the rover and monitored a toxicity level were incredibly important in lending a thematic or representative connection to real science in my mind. Because everything we have observed of the planets around us makes us suspect the MAJORITY of planets are featureless, toxic to humans. The rugged Mako is closer to the probes or moon rover of our history. The dusty plains and acidic winds remind us of real planets.

If the science represented in the game becomes so entirely rose-tinted like Halo, it will alienate me. Subconsciously, the imagery will fail to evoke real science. It will fail to inspire.

Oftentimes, it's not the plot that is most important in science fiction. In a visual medium that is supposed to make you feel things, it is the imagery.

[Medhia_Nox]

To be precise, it's the non-fake science that ME got inaccurate (grossly wrong, actually), while the fake science is not susceptible to reality checks and thus can't be inaccurate, but it was inconsistent. To add to that, science on both sides, fictional and non-fictional, was regularly broken for convenience, for shoving themes or morality in people's faces or the rule of cool. Thus, ME failed spectacularly at presenting science and technology on both sides, the fictional and the non-fictional part, and that's not exactly a mark of honor.

 

So forgive me for being skeptical about MEA in this. I did like your video though. it's probably nothing new for most of us here, but sadly, the general public will be a little more ignorant about these things. As for contributing to the story, I don't think anything specific to the Andromeda galaxy could, because these specifics exist on a scale that tends to be irrelevant to the stories told. In addition, SF writers have no sense of scale after all, and ME is one of the more drastic examples. One thing they could do to improve the bad impression inherited from the trilogy is make a trailer where the problems of the emigrating ship's or fleet's intergalactic voyage are addressed in a somewhat plausible manner. Intergalactic emigration would be a daunting enterprise even for an interstellar civilization, and it should be presented that way. Well, unless they just found an intergalactic matter transmitter powered by six stars (points for knowing the reference).

 

Let's be real... migrating to Alpha Centauri is laughably impossible without science we simply could not recognize today.  

 

As for "scale" - most fantasy genres don't do scale well at all either.  Look at DA... it's not even a whole freaking continent.  

 

I really do agree with you... the entire first ME: A should be on the Ark solving the (actually insurmountable) problems of spending hundreds (thousands?) of years on a ship.

 

NOTE:  Interesting psychological problem I never thought of about generation ships that I saw when reading up on the concept. Second and beyond generation humans being connected with "the mission".  I suspect religion will make a HUGE comeback if/when such endeavors take place in real life.  Sanctifying the voyage would be the only way to ensure the mission actually makes it after the first few generations are gone.

 

Of course... there's going to be a Relay that will zing us there.

 

And, be prepared for the "Earth" planet the humans will settle on... to not be at all filled to the brim with lifeforms that will cause mass deaths of the colonists.  It'll be... "found planet for humans" "colonize" "win".  

 

I hope the best you're looking for is interesting characterization and a moderately interesting story (and, to be fair, I've never seen a sci-fi game that was at all anything more than this).