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[phoray]

I just had to come back and say this, because I thought it was funny. I was planning my next play through of DAI to include romancing Dorian. And I'm pretty set on a Trevelyan Templar Warrior, but was pondering the possibility of an elf. I say to myself, "A Trevelyan would be more of a political equal due to noble background. But then how more believable would it be, as Dorian's "slave in Tevinter" if he were already an elf?"

And then I had to remind myself that your stuff here isn't even likely to come true, but I was super amused that I've absorbed it so strongly as what will literally be going down next game.

[CardButton]

I just had to come back and say this, because I thought it was funny. I was planning my next play through of DAI to include romancing Dorian. And I'm pretty set on a Trevelyan Templar Warrior, but was pondering the possibility of an elf. I say to myself, "A Trevelyan would be more of a political equal due to noble background. But then how more believable would it be, as Dorian's "slave in Tevinter" if he were already an elf?"

And then I had to remind myself that your stuff here isn't even likely to come true, but I was super amused that I've absorbed it so strongly as what will literally be going down next game.

 

LOL that's probably the best compliment I've gotten for this project, thank you!

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Honestly, I'm not really that into the idea of dual protagonists. I wouldn't like that you get less time developing the relationships and characters connected to either single party. If you split up the quests, dialog, everything, between groups, then neither gets as much development as in the other games. You just end up watering down both. I think they should either bring back the last protagonist as a single PC, or just let them go and move on to someone new.

 

Since the Inquisitor is down an arm by the time Trespasser is done, I think it's probably it for them. Imagine if you had a two handed spec? lol

[CardButton]

Honestly, I'm not really that into the idea of dual protagonists. I wouldn't like that you get less time developing the relationships and characters connected to either single party. If you split up the quests, dialog, everything, between groups, then neither gets as much development as in the other games. You just end up watering down both. I think they should either bring back the last protagonist as a single PC, or just let them go and move on to someone new.

 

Since the Inquisitor is down an arm by the time Trespasser is done, I think it's probably it for them. Imagine if you had a two handed spec? lol

 

To each their own.  Though judging by you're comment about the Inquisitor's arm I take it you didn't read much of this little project?   

 

I addressed the arm issue on the first page, along with much of the other mechanical issues you seem to have found a problem with.  I even had a short blurb on budgetary requirements.  The main story of this fan concept is 26 Quests in length when all the Tevinter PC Origins are factored in, the exact same length as the Main story of DA2.  11 Quests are allocated to the Inquisitor (the same amount they had in their original game) and 15 are devoted to the Tevinter PC including their 4 respective Origin stories (4 Quests less than the HoF in DA:O if you include Origins there as well).  

 

The only real thing that was split was the Companions and LI's.  9 Total companions split between the two parties based on each PC's story requirements. The Inquisitor gets 3 and the Tevinter PC gets the other 6, only one companion less than Hawke had.  Neither character is leading an organization so 9 Companions would be remarkably ungainly for either of them to have in a narrative sense.  LI's are similarly divided and like with DA:I total out to 8.  The Inquisitor gets a limited set of options if they are single, or have lost their loved one (Bull + Solas LIs) and end up with 3, 2 for each gender.  The Tevinter PC gets 5, with 4 for each gender ... which may seem small until you realize that Hawke also only had 5 Options (4 for each gender, with a 5th for females if you purchased "The Lost Prince" DLC) and the HoF had only 4 (2 for Each Gender).  The only one getting short changed in this arrangement is the Inquisitor PC, which should be fine if Bioware is willing into invest just a little more time in each of these characters.  The content should all balance out quite well. 

If I'm right in my assumption and you haven't already read it, check it out if you get the time (I know its quite a lot to get through).  I promise its at least a fun ride.  For quick reference: Page 1 of this thread deals with Mechanic and pre-story issues; Page 2 introduces much of the Main Story content; Page 3 wraps up the mains story with the final two quests and then intentions I had when writing it; and finally Page 4 has write ups on potential Characters and Boss Fights.  I'm hoping this page will get to finally include DLC concepts!     

[Nocte ad Mortem]

To each their own.  Though judging by you're comment about the Inquisitor's arm I take it you didn't read much of this little project?   

 

I addressed the arm issue on the first page, along with much of the other mechanical issues you seem to have found a problem with.  I even had a short blurb on budgetary requirements.  The main story of this fan concept is 26 Quests in length when all the Tevinter PC Origins are factored in, the exact same length as the Main story of DA2.  11 Quests are allocated to the Inquisitor (the same amount they had in their original game) and 15 are devoted to the Tevinter PC including their 4 respective Origin stories (4 Quests less than the HoF in DA:O if you include Origins there as well).  

 

The only real thing that was split was the Companions and LI's.  9 Total companions split between the two parties based on each PC's story requirements. The Inquisitor gets 3 and the Tevinter PC gets the other 6, only one companion less than Hawke had.  Neither character is leading an organization or is intending to start a war, 9 Companions would be remarkably ungainly for either of them to have in a narrative sense.  LI's are similar and like with DA:I total out to 8.  The Inquisitor gets a limited set of options if they are single, or have lost their loved one (Bull + Solas LIs) and end up with 3, 2 for each gender.  The Tevinter PC gets 5, with 4 for each gender ... which may seem small until you realize that Hawke also only had 5 Options (4 for Males and 5 for Females) and the HoF had only 4 (2 for Each Gender).  If Bioware is willing to invest just a little more time in each of these characters, the content should all balance out quite well. 

If I'm right in my assumption and you haven't already read it, check it out if you get the time.  I promise its at least a fun ride.  For quick reference: Page 1 deals with Mechanic and pre-story issues; Page 2 introduces much of the Main Story content; Page 3 wraps up the mains story with the final two quests and then intentions I had when writing it; and finally Page 4 has write ups on potential Characters and Boss Fights.  I'm hoping this page will get to finally include DLC concepts!     

 

I skimmed a lot of it, because it is REALLY long, but I read the budgetary and companion/LI parts, because that was my main concern. I wasn't convinced. You're still splitting your time between these two stories, which makes either half as long. The game ITSELF is as long, but the individual stories aren't. I'd rather just have one full story than two split stories. 

[CardButton]

I skimmed a lot of it, because it is REALLY long, but I read the budgetary and companion/LI parts, because that was my main concern. I wasn't convinced. You're still splitting your time between these two stories, which makes either half as long. The game ITSELF is as long, but the individual stories aren't. I'd rather just have one full story than two split stories. 

 

Well ... not necessarily if you consider past Bioware Games. The Inquisitor's main story-line for DA:I was only 11 Quests in length, the HoF only had 13 if you remove their Origin stories.  ME1 had 11 main story missions and ME2 had 13.  Jade Empire had 16.  The major exceptions are ME3 (which had a whopping 19) and DA2 with 26, at least in regards to their single player titles.  Even split the two story-lines for this project are just slightly under average to what is common to the standard length of a Bioware RPG.  Though I get you're point.  You simply would prefer a game where all 26 Quests devoted to their single story-line and a single PC, rather than this creation which is two intertwining story lines, with two equal PCs, which becomes a single story in the end.  That's certainly fair!  

 

That being said, I'm not entirely sure why you mentioned the mechanics/budget and arm issues though?  It seems less like you have an issue with how I explained them in regards to their potential use in this Dual PC set-up, and more more of an issue with the a Dual-PC game concept in general.  If you're chief concern with such a system is the splitting of resources between the two PCs, then there is absolutely nothing I could have written that would have alleviated that concern, regardless of the game length, budget, or Companion spread.  Inherently a Dual PC game splits its resources between its two PCs, its simply a requirement; and the point of this little project was to try to make a viable Dual PC setup for the next game after all. 

[phoray]

Well ... not necessarily if you consider past Bioware Games. The Inquisitor's main story-line for DA:I was only 11 Quests in length, the HoF only had 13 if you remove their Origin stories. ME1 had 11 main story missions and ME2 had 13. Jade Empire had 16. The major exceptions are ME3 (which had a whopping 19) and DA2 with 26, at least in regards to their single player titles. Even split the two story-lines for this project are just slightly under average to what is common to the standard length of a Bioware RPG. Though I get you're point. You simply would prefer a game where all 26 Quests devoted to their single story-line and a single PC, rather than this creation which is two intertwining story lines, with two equal PCs, which becomes a single story in the end. That's certainly fair!

That being said, I'm not entirely sure why you mentioned the mechanics/budget and arm issues though? It seems less like you have an issue with how I explained them in regards to their potential use in this Dual PC set-up, and more more of an issue with the a Dual-PC game concept in general. If you're chief concern with such a system is the splitting of resources between the two PCs, then there is absolutely nothing I could have written that would have alleviated that concern, regardless of the game length, budget, or Companion spread. Inherently a Dual PC game splits its resources between its two PCs, its simply a requirement; and the point of this little project was to try to make a viable Dual PC setup for the next game after all.

Ah, I had read your thing about their being a similar amount of quests, but had never counted; so this is what you meant.

I see her concern about the "why not more time with the new person" but... Cory was done so poorly, but even if he'd been done well, he was still kinda lame. He was just one more friggin cultist in a world full of cultists; with extra back story to make him powerful. Solas is a good bad guy. Like Loghain, all the fans will endlessly debate how evil/not evil, ends justify the means etc he is. And if I don't get to explore going after this complicated man, this man I befriended and cared about as the Inquisitor, as I bring his story arc to an end? I think my obsession with Dragon Age will just die. Because as an entirely new PC, I will not, even a little bit, care about this man; I'll only treat him as one more threat to my PCs world. The complexity and internal struggle as I possibly kill my friend will not be there. I mean, from a role playing perspective. I guess Bioware could continue to be lazy and assume I'll care just because I played DAI. Which, ya, the first time I played (DAI) I was like OOO Varric, Ooo, Leliana, Ooo, Hawke, Oooo Morrigan. But after my first experience, the only way I play again is someone who isn't me, and I let them make friendships from scratch. So, I'll care, but my Tevinter PC should not care. And that will make a big difference to a lot of people, IMO.

[CardButton]

Ah, I had read your thing about their being a similar amount of quests, but had never counted; so this is what you meant.

I see her concern about the "why not more time with the new person" but... Cory was done so poorly, but even if he'd been done well, he was still kinda lame. He was just one more friggin cultist in a world full of cultists; with extra back story to make him powerful. Solas is a good bad guy. Like Loghain, all the fans will endlessly debate how evil/not evil, ends justify the means etc he is. And if I don't get to explore going after this complicated man, this man I befriended and cared about as the Inquisitor, as I bring his story arc to an end? I think my obsession with Dragon Age will just die. Because as an entirely new PC, I will not, even a little bit, care about this man; I'll only treat him as one more threat to my PCs world. The complexity and internal struggle as I possibly kill my friend will not be there. I mean, from a role playing perspective. I guess Bioware could continue to be lazy and assume I'll care just because I played DAI. Which, ya, the first time I played (DAI) I was like OOO Varric, Ooo, Leliana, Ooo, Hawke, Oooo Morrigan. But after my first experience, the only way I play again is someone who isn't me, and I let them make friendships from scratch. So, I'll care, but my Tevinter PC should not care. And that will make a big difference to a lot of people, IMO.

 

Yeah, forcing players to use head cannon or the relying on the novelty of seeing past popular characters from previous installments of a franchise can only go so far.  A prime example of this issue appearing within DA:I is during the WoS decision with Morrigan and my Dalish Mage (who did eventually drink herself) where in which Morrigan states something along the lines of "Haven't I earned you're trust by now?" and when I started really thinking about it ... what had she done to earn my Inquisitor's trust?  Morrigan of course had earned my trust as a player, but at an objective level all she had really done is advise my Inquisitor PC under direct orders from the Emperor/Empress of Orlais (she had no choice in the matter) and then ignore my orders and abandon my PC in an act of desperation within the Temple of Mythal.  Morrigan at no point during the events of DA:I ever had really done anything to justify the trust she demanded from my Inquisitor and it was apparent that the game's writers were depending on my previous meta-knowledge as a player to transfer that trust to my Inquisitor. 

 

While I am certainly enjoying working on this project and like how its turning out, if there was one thing that I'd say I'm actually kind of proud of, it would have to be just how player Meta-Knowledge is used to this systems advantage, rather than just as a means to manipulate player choices.  The information that the player needs to make their choices in game is given to the PC that actually needs it, rather than to the PC that should know it already.  The Inquisitor PC's questions center around Tevinter, the Tevinter PC's center around Solas and the Inquisition, which creates as situation where a PC is requesting answers on information the other PC already has and as a result the Player is free to use almost all of the knowledge they get in game from either PC to make their decisions for both.  Its a simple enough concept that allows this game to avoid any "Dalish Inquisitor/Temple of Mythal fiasco's".