1188 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

In term of archetypes, Bioware tends to go for a certain stereotypes or views when it comes to their characters. Gay characters tend to be more rogue in nature and tend to be more mages and thieves. It's not a problem for them to embody these classes but they often tend to be in that class instead of the strong, masculine, and KISA types. The princely, royal type and KISA tends to be presented as straight. Alistair, who is a prince and a warrior, is straight, in a game like DA2, even when everyone opens to both sex, the prince charming type Sebastian is also straight, in DAI, the KISA Cullen and Blackwall are also straight.

 

Meanwhile, there tends to be a promiscuous tropes with bisexuals, especially canon ones, instead of the sexually ambiguous they goes with in DA2 originally, Zevran, Isabela, and Iron Bull are all bisexuals. Another trend with bisexual characters are that they're often prefer the opposite sex, moreso between the male characters, Zevran, Kaidan, and sometimes Iron Bull mostly talk about females, and some clearly prefer females. For Kaidan, he NEVER mentions his attraction to any guy except for Shepard, and he tends to mention females a lot with Liara, EDI, the girl he dated, etc.

 

Interestingly, why isn't the sexually promiscuous character can't be straight? Like a lady obsessed straight guy or a princely  or knightly character be gay or maybe a masculine lesbian character like Jack or Cassandra? For the love of the Maker though, whatever the game has, please let being gay just a part of their identity instead of define them or make a big deal out of it. Gay people just want to be treated the same, not being treated special or different. People who play game to escape reality and be in a world where they don't get judged by others, not to be reminded once again how being themselves suck and keep being reminded of how unacceptable they are by society. It's ok for characters like Solas to be bi or gay if there are other gay characters to counterbalance Solas, supposed Solas was bi, and it was to fall into the depraved bisexual territory, and if Cullen was bi or gay, then it shows that there are a variety of characters in term of personality, not confine gay characters into evil role. 

[stop_him]

Another one of these?

[Steelcan]

if we get a blonde haired blue eyed woman who isn't a straight romance option, I might just lose it

[AlanC9]

Another one of these?

Why should today be different from any other day?

[BansheeOwnage]

Another one of these?

Well, the other one is gone now, and this is broader, so why not? That's usually my stance on thread topics anyway. If it doesn't appeal to you, ignore it. I don't understand why someone would waste their energy to come into a thread and ask why it exists. I just don't respond to something I'm not interested in.

 

if we get a blonde haired blue eyed woman who isn't a straight romance option, I might just lose it

Ha, you can have her, since blonde is the hair colour I find the least attractive for whatever reason

[Jedi Comedian]

KISA or Not-KISA, as long as stereotypes are broken, I'm happy.

[In Exile]

if we get a blonde haired blue eyed woman who isn't a straight romance option, I might just lose it

 

Sera?

[Shechinah]

Battlebloodmage, could you separate your post a bit, please? It is a bit hard to read for my eyes.

[Catilina]

Sera?

Yes, but she not a typical blonde. The mice chewed her hair.

[Shechinah]

Yes, but she not a typical blonde. The mice chewed her hair.

 

She cuts her own hair; it make sense given her character. She still fits the definition of a blonde person down to the fair skin and light eyes so yeah, she is a typical blonde.
 

[Dani100]

A Jack or Cass character available to women would be quite a nice change. Love Sera more than any other character BioWare has done (hell, I even like her haircut) but I sure would like a Xena character.(with very short hair though)

[Steelcan]

Sera?

straight

[Colonelkillabee]

What is KISA?

[Steelcan]

What is KISA?

knight in shining armor

[Colonelkillabee]

knight in shining armor

Ah I see. Thanks, google failed me.

[Colonelkillabee]

As for the topic, they do on occasion break stereotypes, they just do so in pieces so it's not so overwhelmingly obvious as to what they're trying to do. For instance, Cassandra. I know many here wanted her to be either bisexual or lesbian, but that wouldn't break stereotypes, that'd be conforming to them because she's got her hair styled short, and she's tough, strong. That's what people have come to expect of women with short hair.

[Qun00]

Fenris, Merrill and Leliana aren't promiscuous bisexuals at all.

[Battlebloodmage]

As for the topic, they do on occasion break stereotypes, they just do so in pieces so it's not so overwhelmingly obvious as to what they're trying to do. For instance, Cassandra. I know many here wanted her to be either bisexual or lesbian, but that wouldn't break stereotypes, that'd be conforming to them because she's got her hair styled short, and she's tough, strong. That's what people have come to expect of women with short hair.

If you go by Bioware history, none of the lesbian options was actually a tough or masculine females, they tend to be feminine. Lelianna, Isabela, Merrill, Sera, Josephine, Liara, kelly, Snooki, Samantha. It would be a bit questionable whether ME games made lesbian for straight guys or for lesbians based on comments like Asari is not a lesbian or a race of bisexual blue alien female that breeds exclusively with other race to get pregnant. Not that there's anything wrong with it; it's just that who are their intended target audience? Similar to the gay characters, do they think people would appreciate a world where gay people are being treated as normal people or a world where gay people are once again the outcast and being treated horribly by society? 

[Illyria]

In term of archetypes, Bioware tends to go for a certain stereotypes or views when it comes to their characters. Gay characters tend to be more rogue in nature and tend to be more mages and thieves. It's not a problem for them to embody these classes but they often tend to be in that class instead of the strong, masculine, and KISA types. The princely, royal type and KISA tends to be presented as straight. Alistair, who is a prince and a warrior, is straight, in a game like DA2, even when everyone opens to both sex, the prince charming type Sebastian is also straight, in DAI, the KISA Cullen and Blackwall are also straight.

 

Meanwhile, there tends to be a promiscuous tropes with bisexuals, especially canon ones, instead of the sexually ambiguous they goes with in DA2 originally, Zevran, Isabela, and Iron Bull are all bisexuals. Another trend with bisexual characters are that they're often prefer the opposite sex, moreso between the male characters, Zevran, Kaidan, and sometimes Iron Bull mostly talk about females, and some clearly prefer females. For Kaidan, he NEVER mentions his attraction to any guy except for Shepard, and he tends to mention females a lot with Liara, EDI, the girl he dated, etc.

 

Interestingly, why isn't the sexually promiscuous character can't be straight? Like a lady obsessed straight guy or a princely  or knightly character be gay or maybe a masculine lesbian character like Jack or Cassandra? For the love of the Maker though, whatever the game has, please let being gay just a part of their identity instead of define them or make a big deal out of it. Gay people just want to be treated the same, not being treated special or different. People who play game to escape reality and be in a world where they don't get judged by others, not to be reminded once again how being themselves suck and keep being reminded of how unacceptable they are by society. It's ok for characters like Solas to be bi or gay if there are other gay characters to counterbalance Solas, supposed Solas was bi, and it was to fall into the depraved bisexual territory, and if Cullen was bi or gay, then it shows that there are a variety of characters in term of personality, not confine gay characters into evil role. 

 

The characters in DA2 are canonically bisexual.  Fans are very quick to lable characters that don't fall in sterotypes as ambigous (or, in Josie's case, forgetting she's even bi) and label those that do as 'canonically bisexual' (this isn't aimed at you in particular - it's something I've seen a lot of).

 

Also, all but one of the romancable bisexual women have prefered women (Josie is the exception, and Aveline is a non-romancable bi who seems to prefer men).  I agree that there needs to be more male bisexual/pansexual characters who talk about their attraction to men (for example, DAO clearly stated that Rinna was Zev's girlfriend, but only implied that Taliesen was his boyfriend.  World of Thedas clears it up by confirming they were in a polyamorus relationship with the three of them).  Kaidan I can understand why he doesn't talk about men much, since he was written as a straight character in ME1/2, (Meer and Hale recorded all the scripted dialogue, including lines meant for m!shep or f!shep) but there's no excuse for Bull (who was announced as a pansexual character, but mostly talks about women, and only really flirts with either the Inquisitor or Dorian, and maybe slightly with Blackwall), or Anders (bisexual from Awakening.  Only flirts with an f!Warden and his flirting with Nate is mostly subtext rather than obvious like he is with the women in the party).

 

it's ok for characters like Solas to be bi or gay if there are other gay characters to counterbalance Solas

 

I agree with this totally (I don't think he does fall into 'depraved bisexual' but I can see why Weekes was worried about, in particular since the Bull's betrayal could've happened not long before this moment).  BW are making an attempt to move out of the cliches when it comes to LIs, and it was great that Weekes realised that Solas could be interpreted as falling into this trope and took steps to avoid it.

 

 

A Jack or Cass character available to women would be quite a nice change. Love Sera more than any other character BioWare has done (hell, I even like her haircut) but I sure would like a Xena character.(with very short hair though)

 

This.  This this this.

 

Sorry, there's not much more to say except I really want this.

[Battlebloodmage]

Fenris, Merrill and Leliana aren't promiscuous bisexuals at all.

Lelianna with her job as a bard probably has her fair share and she would be readily jumps in bed with Isabela for a four some.

 

I don't want to touch the mess that is DA2 where they want them to be sexually ambiguous, but then the bisexual erasure accusation being raised, so they change it to bisexual. Fenris was also written from the perspective of a gay character based on David Gaider's blog. That's why I said canonically bisexual characters.

[Catilina]

Fenris, Merrill and Leliana aren't promiscuous bisexuals at all.

Leliana: dark, promiscuous past
Fenris: heavy psychological burden, difficult to control anger
Merrill: weird, outcast

[Jedi Comedian]

Anders (bisexual from Awakening. Only flirts with an f!Warden and his flirting with Nate is mostly subtext rather than obvious like he is with the women in the party).

He flirted with Nathaniel? I must have missed it/not catched the subtext.

[Illyria]

He flirted with Nathaniel? I must have missed it/not catched the subtext.

 

Kiiiiind of:

 

Nathaniel: You don't always wear robes, do you?

Anders: Not when I'm naked I don't.

[Qun00]

Lelianna with her job as a bard probably has her fair share and she would be readily jumps in bed with Isabela for a four some.
 
I don't want to touch the mess that is DA2 where they want them to be sexually ambiguous, but then the bisexual erasure accusation being raised, so they change it to bisexual. Fenris was also written from the perspective of a gay character based on David Gaider's blog. That's why I said canonically bisexual characters.

Well, if you are so determined to see the world as a big ball of darkness. I know that some people revel in feeling oppressed.

A straight bard would be no different from Leliana. It is about the job, not one's sexuality. And doing a foursome once hardly qualifies as promiscuity.

Concerning DA2, what matters is what is true within the game. Using whatever happened in the real world to dismiss it is trying too hard.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, if you are so determined to see the world as a big ball of darkness. I know that some people revel in feeling oppressed.

A straight bard would be no different from Leliana. It is about the job, not one's sexuality. And doing a foursome once hardly qualifies as promiscuity.

Concerning DA2, what matters is what is true within the game. Using whatever happened in the real world to dismiss it is trying too hard.

I think making excuses instead of examining things is a bigger problem. It's one thing for have a character like that, but a promiscuous character in every game is another matter.

 

What matters is what happen in the game, true, and they originally go with sexually ambiguous characters while written certain characters with certain sexuality in mind, so we should go with that as that is what was intended? Making Isabela the canon bisexual and also the one who is promiscuous. Considering how they run out of time and many things in that game was basically rushed, the sexual ambiguous angle could also be because they run out of time. Not saying it is, but it is a possibility. That is why I don't even touch DA2 characters and only use Isabela whose sexuality is established in DAO.