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[Illyria]

This.

 

And not only that, when you say '' all LIs should be open to everyone and people can headcanon them as they like '' well that cuts into a lot of possible banter and character history. What do they find attractive in a person, have they had any previous partners, who do they flirt with, do they find any of the other companions attractive? If everyone should be allowed to be headcanon'd a different sexuality based on what the player likes, you can't make them show any attraction to anyone else than the LI, and they should never had any other relationships except the one with the PC (nor should possible prior relationships come even in discussion, which is a restriction itself when it comes to making characters). AND THAT is just selfish.

 

This dude you are romancing as a woman flirts with a man? Well, not straight anymore.

This dude you are romancing as a man likes women and shows open attraction to them? Well, not gay anymore.

 

I really don't want a bunch of LI that only have sexualities when you are around, thank you very much.

 

I've seen this argument used to say that Leliana and Bull are playersexual (because the player never experienced any banters or converstations where they mentioned being into ladies/dudes) and that it was okay to headcanon them as straight.

 

(this is despite Leliana's personal quest being 'help me kill my ex-girlfriend')

[Addictress]

This.

 

And not only that, when you say '' all LIs should be open to everyone and people can headcanon them as they like '' well that cuts into a lot of possible banter and character history. What do they find attractive in a person, have they had any previous partners, who do they flirt with, do they find any of the other companions attractive? If everyone should be allowed to be headcanon'd a different sexuality based on what the player likes, you can't make them show any attraction to anyone else than the PC, and they should never had any other relationships except the one with the PC (nor should possible prior relationships come even in discussion, which is a restriction itself when it comes to making characters). AND THAT is just selfish.

 

This dude you are romancing as a woman flirts with a man? Well, not straight anymore.

This dude you are romancing as a man likes women and shows open attraction to them? Well, not gay anymore.

 

I really don't want a bunch of LIs that only have sexualities when you are around, thank you very much.

Well that's true.

 

*thinks*

 

But I don't notice a lot of flirtation between my companions anyways. I only noticed it in Awakening and DA2, with Isabela flirting with Fenris, and Anders flirting with Velanna, etc.

 

I didn't notice any flirtation between characters in DAI and I didn't feel like banter was less because of the lack. They can have banter about other stuff and still have a lot of banter.

 

My parties never had Dorian & Bull so I never heard them flirt with each other. I didn't feel like my game was lacking because my companions weren't flirting with one another.

[Malthier]

bisexuality is a serious, solid identity. Just as being gay is, just as being straight is, just as being pansexual is.

 

I want all of those to be fair game for head cannon.

 

[Addictress]

???

[Illyria]

Well that's true.

 

*thinks*

 

But I don't notice a lot of flirtation between my companions anyways. I only noticed it in Awakening and DA2, with Isabela flirting with Fenris, and Anders flirting with Velanna, etc.

 

I didn't notice any flirtation between characters in DAI and I didn't feel like banter was less because of the lack. They can have banter about other stuff and still have a lot of banter.

 

My parties never had Dorian & Bull so I never heard them flirt with each other. I didn't feel like my game was lacking because my companions weren't flirting with one another.

 

Bull flirts with both Cass and Blackwall, in addition to his possible love interest Dorian.

 

Anders flirts with Velanna and Nathaniel in Awakening, and alludes to a previous encounter with Bela in DA2.

 

Leliana kind of flirts with Morrigan (she's checking her out, at least... 'stop looking at my breasts!  'Tis most disturbing') and Zev hits on Alistair (Alistair fails to notice).

[Battlebloodmage]

Actually, I don't believe that's true.  There are in-game references that refute this statement - notably the Brother Genitivi book you find in the Emerald Graves.  In SOME societies in Thedas, it's a non-issue.  Notably Orlais, where being gay is just seen as an interesting personality quirk.  But it clearly is a big deal in Tevinter, especially among the nobility.  In Fereldan they're quietly accepting as long as you're discreet.  I'm not sure what the situation is in the Free Marches, but I'd guess that like everything else there, they have a wide variety of opinions, since Marchers can't seem to agree on much of anything except their fierce independence.

 

So Dorian's "stereotypical" story makes sense in-world, because of where he's from.  He'd have had a totally different life if he were born in Orlais.  That just adds to the sadness of his story.

The thing is, who do you think would appreciate these kinds of stories? The gay gamers who play videogames who want to escape the harsh reality of them being looked down by society to go into a game where they also being treated as disgusting? These kinds of story have been told many times throughout many media, I'm sure gay guys just want to be treated as normal at this point or not being reminded of how harsh their life is. The homophobes talking about what a SJW game this is? People with mental trauma like abuse don't want to be reminded constantly that it happens to them. It's actually more progressive to have a world where being gay is just as normal as being straight, it's actually sending a stronger message than how terrible it is to be gay.

[Addictress]

Bull flirts with both Cass and Blackwall, in addition to his possible love interest Dorian.

 

Anders flirts with Velanna and Nathaniel in Awakening, and alludes to a previous encounter with Bela in DA2.

 

Leliana kind of flirts with Morrigan (she's checking her out, at least... 'stop looking at my breasts!  'Tis most disturbing') and Zev hits on Alistair (Alistair fails to notice).

Yeah well those aren't the party banters I most enjoyed and if they replaced those with non-sexual banter lines, I would not have felt my DA experience degraded.

[Malthier]

lol. "four bisexuals is so unrealistic because it's out of my realm of experience." never change BSN.

[Colonelkillabee]

There is no problem with promiscuity, actually, I like that kind of characters. The problem is that they're always bisexual, it would actually give in to the stereotype of they're bisexual because they're greedy or that they will be attracted to anything that move. I don't see why the promiscuous guy couldn't be straight. When all the promiscuous characters are bisexuals, that's the problem, not that there's anything wrong with promiscuity and sleeping around.

 

I don't see how Solas being a depraved bisexual has anything to do with DA2, as evidence in this thread, many people don't even consider him to be a villain and just misguided. I consider him to be a bad guy and would knife him the next time I see him. I was just bringing to the attention that they consciously avoid certain stereotypes but they forgot that subconsciously their characters fall into certain stereotypes. Let's say why could Blackwall be gay and why could Iron Bull be straight? They describe Iron Bull as someone who would have sex with anyone that doesn't break from his sex. Basically, it has nothing to do with his sexuality, but it's because he just want to stick it in anything that can handle him. Considering the offer they give straight females, they romantic and sometimes angst but very romantic is the main point, people like Alistair, straight up adorkable, prince charming Sebastian, Knight in Shining Armor Cullen, angsty god Solas. These kinds of romantic archetypes you often see in fanfic and romantic novels for women may actually be appealing to gay guys, too, just as masculine females may be something lesbians would be into, but they may avoid it because it may fall into the butch territory.

His promiscuity in relation to him being Bi is what I mean, or Pansexual or whatever. Point being that they continually make characters like this like you said, always bi or similar. The promiscuity in it of itself is not the issue, no. But I don't think Bioware writes promiscuous characters very well. It always goes to an extreme.

 

As for Solas and DA 2, I wasn't linking the two? I was saying that there would have been a huge backlash, and the people in this thread may mostly agree that Solas isn't evil, but you don't have to be downright evil to be "the villain", and even so, there are many many people that refuse to see Solas as anything but an evil villain, even some grieving Solavellans see what he is doing as unforgivable and think Bioware doomed him to becoming the big evil. It's not really about what the writer sees or intends, but what the audience will see and feel despite reasoning.

[Sylvianus]

???

 

You don't see anything wrong with " I want characters to be created and written in a way that allows the headcanon for everyone because reasons ? " 

 

Merril is straight in my playtrhough.

No she isn't, she is lesbian. 

 

No, thank you. i don't like that sort of cheap writting, where everything has to be bland and blank about a character's sexuality so we can satisfy the headcanon of everyone. 

 

It works better in games like Skyrim where romances are cheap.

[Illyria]

Yeah well those aren't the party banters I most enjoyed and if they replaced those with non-sexual banter lines, I would not have felt my DA experience degraded.

 

But the lines are in the game and are part of the character interactions. If a character's sexuality revolved around the PC then the characters would feel less alive to me.

[Colonelkillabee]

lol. "four bisexuals is so unrealistic because it's out of my realm of experience." never change BSN.

I try, lol.

[susanwb]

The thing is, who do you think would appreciate these kinds of stories? The gay gamers who play videogames who want to escape the harsh reality of them being looked down by society to go into a game where they also being treated as disgusting? These kinds of story have been told many times throughout many media, I'm sure gay guys just want to be treated as normal at this point or not being reminded of how harsh their life is. The homophobes talking about what a SJW game this is? People with mental trauma like abuse don't want to be reminded constantly that it happens to them. It's actually more progressive to have a world where being gay is just as normal as being straight, it's actually sending a stronger message than how terrible it is to be gay.

Well, I can't argue that it wouldn't be a nice escape for people to role play in a world where bigotry wasn't a thing.  Of course it would.  I'm just saying that Thedas is not, canonically, that world.  It could have been, had Bioware wanted it to be, and I for one would have no problem with that.  I think you DO get that world in the Mass Effect series, and it's one of its strengths as an IP.

 

Personally, I'd like to role play in a world where sexual aggression and violence towards women was not normalized, too.  But I recognize that Thedas is not quite there, either.

[Battlebloodmage]

His promiscuity in relation to him being Bi is what I mean, or Pansexual or whatever. Point being that they continually make characters like this like you said, always bi or similar. The promiscuity in it of itself is not the issue, no. But I don't think Bioware writes promiscuous characters very well. It always goes to an extreme.

 

As for Solas and DA 2, I wasn't linking the two? I was saying that there would have been a huge backlash, and the people in this thread may mostly agree that Solas isn't evil, but you don't have to be downright evil to be "the villain", and even so, there are many many people that refuse to see Solas as anything but an evil villain, even some grieving Solavellans see what he is doing as unforgivable and think Bioware doomed him to becoming the big evil. It's not really about what the writer sees or intends, but what the audience will see and feel despite reasoning.

Yes, his promiscuity in relation to him being bi, but why couldn't his promiscuity couldn't be in relation to him being straight? There's nothing wrong with promiscuity, but they have one promiscuous bisexual in each game is a pattern, not a coincidence. They have yet had a promiscuous straight character yet. This thread is mainly to point out the archetypes they have had so far in these games. Remember that they make the characters first before assigning the sexuality, so they see a promiscuous character, they assign him to be bisexual, creating a promiscuous bisexual pattern in every game. 

 

I don't see how Solas being a bisexual would create a backlash. I don't see anyone making a connection between a bisexual with him being evil. The reason is because these types of characters haven't done before, there are straight evil characters like Morrigan. There are other gay/bi characters to counterbalance it out. 

[Hellion Rex]

Bull flirts with both Cass and Blackwall, in addition to his possible love interest Dorian.

Wait, he flirts with Blackwall?

 

O___O

 

Learn something new every day lol

[Malthier]

???

 

headcanoning away a character's sexuality is disgusting. it's primarily a way of imposing the player's whims and standards on the character. it's power fantasy taken to new and grosser levels.

[Xilizhra]

They have yet had a promiscuous straight character yet.

Morrigan.

[Hellion Rex]

His promiscuity in relation to him being Bi is what I mean, or Pansexual or whatever. Point being that they continually make characters like this like you said, always bi or similar. The promiscuity in it of itself is not the issue, no. But I don't think Bioware writes promiscuous characters very well. It always goes to an extreme.

 

Indeed, that's the one issue I have with Bull. It's that once again a romance option that can go for either gender is a promiscuous one. I love Bull to death, but it's kinda turning into a pattern to have one promiscuous character per game.

[Illyria]

Well, I can't argue that it wouldn't be a nice escape for people to role play in a world where bigotry wasn't a thing.  Of course it would.  I'm just saying that Thedas is not, canonically, that world.  It could have been, had Bioware wanted it to be, and I for one would have no problem with that.  I think you DO get that world in the Mass Effect series, and it's one of its strengths as an IP.

 

Personally, I'd like to role play in a world where sexual aggression and violence towards women was not normalized, too.  But I recognize that Thedas is not quite there, either.

 

I honestly don't understand that.  I mean, canonically Thedas is a mostly matriarchal world.

[Hellion Rex]

Morrigan.

She wasn't promiscuous though, I'd argue. Not like Zevran or Isabela or Bull.

[Witch Cocktor]

Well that's true.

 

*thinks*

 

But I don't notice a lot of flirtation between my companions anyways. I only noticed it in Awakening and DA2, with Isabela flirting with Fenris, and Anders flirting with Velanna, etc.

 

I didn't notice any flirtation between characters in DAI and I didn't feel like banter was less because of the lack. They can have banter about other stuff and still have a lot of banter.

 

My parties never had Dorian & Bull so I never heard them flirt with each other. I didn't feel like my game was lacking because my companions weren't flirting with one another.

 

It's not just flirtation. It's just plain simply talk about love, passion, sex, attraction.

Only way headcanoning characters as gay, bi or straight could work if there was no talk to anything about sex (or love?) ever.

 

If DA:I was '' bi/playersexual  and all LIs were designed to be headcanon'd as what you want them to be ''

 

Sera and Bull talking about breasts? No.

Sera fawning over qunari women? No.

Sera x Dagna? No.

Varric encouraging Blackwall to talk to Josephine? No.

Blackwall's and Josephine's (fleeting?) crush on one another? No.

Iron Bull talking about Solas banging fade ladies? No.

Iron Bull hitting on Cassandra? No.

Iron Bull hitting on/romancing Dorian? No.

Iron Bull paying a prostitute to pleasure Cole? No.

Iron Bull in general? No.

Dorian's personal quest? No. (good riddance tho)

Cole x that bard? No.

Cole reading Dorian's mind and talking about his feelings for some Rilenius(?) fellow? No.

Varric asking about Cassandra's conquests and men she has loved? No.

 

 

All that would have to be gutted. Which is a bit sad since I like when my companions talk about subjects like this. It gives them character, personality and they seem more fleshed out, like people. 

[Illyria]

Wait, he flirts with Blackwall?

 

O___O

 

Learn something new every day lol

 

He gives a pretty strong flirty vibe with him.  Lots of compliments, and invites him to join the Chargers and tells him about No Pants Fridays.

[Hellion Rex]

I honestly don't understand that.  I mean, canonically Thedas is a mostly matriarchal world.

I'd argue that that's only really in the religious aspect, minus Empress Celene and the Rivaini, who let the women seers rule. Most of Southern Thedas is still run by men, and Tevinter is definitely a patriarchy.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, I can't argue that it wouldn't be a nice escape for people to role play in a world where bigotry wasn't a thing.  Of course it would.  I'm just saying that Thedas is not, canonically, that world.  It could have been, had Bioware wanted it to be, and I for one would have no problem with that.  I think you DO get that world in the Mass Effect series, and it's one of its strengths as an IP.

 

Personally, I'd like to role play in a world where sexual aggression and violence towards women was not normalized, too.  But I recognize that Thedas is not quite there, either.

It is that world because of the stories the writers want to tell, especially in relation to Tevinter, where they establish a homophobic environment to accommodate Dorian's story. Nothing about the book of Thedas mentioning anything about Thedas being intolerance toward homosexuality. Instead, they should have made a world where everyone were treated as normal. I'm still pretty bitter about Asari not lesbians, 2 whole games not having gay then the last game was a cutdown version of femShep and an NPC, but still for what it's worth, Steve was a good gay character despite his NPC status. 

[Illyria]

I'd argue that that's only really in the religious aspect, minus Empress Celene and the Rivaini, who let the women seers rule. Most of Southern Thedas is still run by men, and Tevinter is definitely a patriarchy.

 

Okay, but Ferelden pretty much worships dogs and yet '******' is an insult?

 

I don't get that.

 

EDIT:

 

I mean 'term referring to a female dog' is an insult.