I wish Dorian did not happen, at least his storyline.
I am glad he happened, and his storyline. What is right for you, is not right for everyone else. That story did indeed help a good friend of mine coming out of his shell and accepting who he is, and that is the beauty of it.
I will admit that i never spend alot of time thinking about storylines i would have cut, because i love the games as they are, faults and all.
uh uh sure. except i didn't just guess the south, i misremembered where he said he was from in the past. so no. i didn't profile him.
besides being realistic about what kind of social standards appear in what areas of the world =/= stereotyping.
No worries, I didn't take it as you profiling me, though if you did, I wouldn't be offended anyway. The south is especially conservative. I considered myself a democrat at one point until I got a taste of what the real democrats outside of the south were like. A liberal, I am not, which is why I go as independent.
Point being, even the progressives here aren't nearly as progressive as the rest of America. So such a profile while not passable to everyone here would still be a safe bet. Assuming that people aren't considering us all homophobes that is.
California, New York off the top of my head. I'm well aware some places in and out of the U.S. have areas that are more "progressive". Thedas does too, Orlais. If that happened in Orlais, I'd be less surprised. Kirkwall doesn't really say much about their opinion on such things outside of a brothel. Like I said, I didn't say it was impossible, but to me even if probable, it's clear they treated their sexuality as a convenience for the player, regardless of the probability of such a group coming to pass. That, above everything is what gets me.
sounds like a double standard to me, man. all four of the characters in that group are weird and improbable in their own way (the better to make lore more accessible and convenient for the player 
) but it's their bisexuality that you take issue with.
I am glad he happened, and his storyline. What is right for you, is not right for everyone else. That story did indeed help a good friend of mine coming out of his shell and accepting who he is, and that is the beauty of it.
I will admit that i never spend alot of time thinking about storylines i would have cut, because i love the games as they are, faults and all.
Practically every TV show has a gay coming out storyline, I would rather have an actual storyline for the supposed "first" gay character instead of another stereotypical story you can get hundreds times over on TV.
I am glad he happened, and his storyline. What is right for you, is not right for everyone else. That story did indeed help a good friend of mine coming out of his shell and accepting who he is, and that is the beauty of it.
I will admit that i never spend alot of time thinking about storylines i would have cut, because i love the games as they are, faults and all.
I'm glad it happened simply because I didn't think it was the stereotypical gay storyline people made it out to be. If the father wanted to change him because he thought his lifestyle was gross or immoral, then that would have been typical. This wasn't the case.
And besides, it's the only time he even mentions he's gay.
sounds like a double standard to me, man. all four of the characters in that group are weird and improbable in their own way (the better to make lore more accessible and convenient for the player
Like I said, those other weird or improbable traits are things that are expected from a fantasy game anyway.
But if people think it a double standard, that's fine, everyone's guilty of those.
I wish Dorian did not happen, at least his storyline.
While I completely understand why you say that, I don't.
Dorian is the Thedas equivalent to my IRL best friend. Their personalities, passions, sense of humor, intellectual elitism, the whole package. It's like they copy-pasted him into DA. Also the companion quest, which I did IRL with my best friend. The only difference was the falling out was with his mother, rather than his father. What kind of mother tells her son she doesn't love him anymore? 
I just wish I could've given Dorian the hug I gave my real-life best friend.
I really do understand how no one who'd actually gone through that would want to relive it in a game - which is supposed to be fun, after all. So I understand your position. But I sill love Dorian.
She wasn't promiscuous though, I'd argue. Not like Zevran or Isabela or Bull.
Really? She certainly talks a lot about seducing men.
Right, my argument does risk sounding like you want to suppress or hide sexuality because we can't take it. I mentioned that earlier in this thread and recognize that.
However, the counter to this is that I felt like Anders was one of the strongest romances, and if you weren't aware of and if they didn't write his flirtations with both sexes in Awakening then his romance would not have been diminished by the absence of his declaring his sexuality.
The explicitly wrote Dorian's romance, which was great, to have the sexuality component in there, so yes it would've been less had it not been there, and I wouldn't reverse or wish Dorian did not happen. But it was designed to be that way, and they could just as well design characters to have great romances that do not need sexual identity to be an integral part.
Anders had one line about having a gay boyfriend that has disappeared in the female playthrough. Precisely because the idea of having preferences goes against " let's allow the headcanon of everyone "
That's absolutely silly. Either Anders had a boyfriend in his past, which is a part of his characterization, his experience, as a human being, or he didn't. And if he did, then your system doesn't work anymore because it doesn't allow all the headcanons. If a straight female wants to believe that Anders is straight, she can't in this case... Bisexual, that's it. But let's allow headcanon, so let's just remove this annoying sentence...
Also I have yet to see a great romance with such system. I don't want any character being forced into a boring blank state to avoid any preferences he could indicate to the player. I don't want the characterization of a character messed up. Like I said, I don't really trust that system.
Really? She certainly talks a lot about seducing men.
To lure them into traps and such, not necessarily sleep with all of them.
She has a ulterior motive for sleeping with the Warden. Outside of that, she doesn't hit on everything that move and is disgusted by most of the male cast.
If she did not have the ulterior motive, Morrigan would give zero f*cks about the male Warden. A woman who treats other men like sh*t is not a woman worth romancing because its obvious that she likes you only because she wants something from you.
Really? She certainly talks a lot about seducing men.
Its part of the job, kind of like how Black Widow sometimes engage in seduction.
I'm glad it happened simply because I didn't think it was the stereotypical gay storyline people made it out to be. If the father wanted to change him because he thought his lifestyle was gross or immoral, then that would have been typical. This wasn't the case.
And besides, it's the only time he even mentions he's gay.
There are a lot of elements of him being gay. He hides his sexuality from the public, afraid to even say that you guys are in a relationship. The no string attached attitude among gay guys. The gay coming out story. His fabulous personality which make many people pitch him as gay even before he was revealed as one where fanart has him and Vivienne fixing Cullen's hair and talking like mean girls. All of these are before he was revealed as gay. He and Vivienne are like the stereotypical gay guy and his hag. I would say if given a choice, a gay character like Cullen would provide more of a positive representation than someone that conformed to many different stereotypes.
If she did not have the ulterior motive, Morrigan would give zero f*cks about the male Warden. A woman who treats other men like sh*t is not a woman worth romancing because its obvious that she likes you only because she wants something from you.
Maybe at first, but it's obvious that she grows to love and trust you later on. Morrigan is not the best rolemodel for sure, but she grows as she gains more life experience with other people. Her mother and mentor was Flemeth, it's not really surprising that she intended to use you for sexual pleasure and mainly the god baby. Despite that though, you can convince her to be together.
I'd argue that that's only really in the religious aspect, minus Empress Celene and the Rivaini, who let the women seers rule. Most of Southern Thedas is still run by men, and Tevinter is definitely a patriarchy.
Having played through Inquisition you could have fooled me.
Anders had one line about having a gay boyfriend that has disappeared in the female playthrough. Precisely because the idea of having preferences goes against " let's allow the headcanon of everyone "
That's absolutely silly. Either Anders had a boyfriend in his past, which is a part of his characterization, his experience, as a human being, or he didn't. And if he did, then your system doesn't work anymore because it doesn't allow all the headcanons. If a straight female wants to believe that Anders is straight, she can't in this case... Bisexual, that's it. But let's allow headcanon, so let's just remove this annoying sentence...
Also I have yet to see a great romance with such system. I don't want any character being forced into a boring blank state to avoid any preferences he could indicate to the player. I don't want the characterization of a character messed up. Like I said, I don't really trust that system.
His line about the gay boyfriend disappeared... yes... so that works. As I said and say again, his characterization and part of being a human being, as with everyone, can be divided into two layers:
Thedas-specific
Not Thedas Specific
If you argue that sexuality is increasingly Thedas specific, I will have to recede. But as it is now, I do not think the game is diminished by prioritizing Thedas-specific characterization features over non-Thedas-specific characterizations.
His love of cats is not-Thedas-specific and I find it endearing. Perhaps someone hates cats and we would all have an argument on whether or not to hide cat-loving preferences. Fair enough.
Also, apparently you don't think Anders was a great romance. On that I disagree.
Having played through Inquisition you could have fooled me.
Nevarra and the Free Marches all seem to have male rulers, from what we can tell, and looking at the history of Orlesian emperors, an empress regnant like Celene is an anomaly. Ferelden, of course, is up to player choice.
There are a lot of elements of him being gay. He hides his sexuality from the public, afraid to even say that you guys are in a relationship. The no string attached attitude among gay guys. The gay coming out story. His fabulous personality which make many people pitch him as gay even before he was revealed as one where fanart has him and Vivienne fixing Cullen's hair and talking like mean girls. All of these are before he was revealed as gay. He and Vivienne are like the stereotypical gay guy and his hag. I would say if given a choice, a gay character like Cullen would provide more of a positive representation than someone that conformed to many different stereotypes.
I hadn't seen the fan art, all I saw was a Tevinter mage initially, and Tevinter mages are a bit flamboyant, as are some mages in general, so I personally didn't automatically jump to gay.
Beyond that, I have to ask, what's wrong with him being flamboyant and gay? I mean yes, I know about avoiding stereotypes, we covered that, but don't you think it might be a bit hurtful to those gay guys that are actually like this, to see people, especially LGBT people saying they would rather have Dorian not happen? I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious, as honestly, I've only had one outwardly gay friend that wasn't like Dorian, and that had average "straight guy" mannerisms and the like. The rest, like a co-worker of mine is very much like Dorian. I don't claim to know the demographic of flamboyant gays to not, and that's not the issue. I know many want others to see that there are many flavors of gay, not just the same one we always see, and that's fine but going so far as to say you wish Dorian didn't happen seems a bit extreme and like it would be hurtful to those who belong to the LGBT community and are like Dorian.
Nevarra and the Free Marches all seem to have male rulers, from what we can tell, and looking at the history of Orlesian emperors, an empress regnant like Celene is an anomaly. Ferelden, of course, is up to player choice.
Also, most of the rulers in Orzammar have been Kings. Queens are the exception. Not non-existent, but unusual.
Really? She certainly talks a lot about seducing men.
It's not really the first place her mind goes though, not like it often is with Zev, Isabela, and Bull. Morrigan doesn't get excited by the thought of an orgy, for example, like Zev and Isabela would.
Practically every TV show has a gay coming out storyline, I would rather have an actual storyline for the supposed "first" gay character instead of another stereotypical story you can get hundreds times over on TV.
Well, I'd argue that it's not really a 'coming out' story at all. It's the other cliche gay story: the "my family doesn't accept me for who I am" story. But with a little twist: his father doesn't care that he's gay; he cares that he's giving him magical grandbabies.
And, the fact that it's so common doesn't actually ruin it too much for me. It's not exactly groundbreaking at all, but I don't mind them giving this storyline a go....once. Now, if they have another gay Imperial in DA4 and that character also has a "my family doesn't accept me for who I am" story, then I'll be pissed. But doing the story once -- especially when the other gay character in the gay has no plot related to her sexuality whatsoever -- doesn't bother me.
Also, I don't think Bioware has ever called Dorian their "first" gay character, although I might be wrong on that. I think that the media incorrectly did that. I think that Gaider said first gay male companion, which is actually true. Not first gay companion (Juhani). Not first gay guy (Steve). But the first 'gay male companion'. And, now, we should be done with gay related "firsts".
I'm glad it happened simply because I didn't think it was the stereotypical gay storyline people made it out to be. If the father wanted to change him because he thought his lifestyle was gross or immoral, then that would have been typical. This wasn't the case.
And besides, it's the only time he even mentions he's gay.
Holy ****! You and I actually agree completely on this. I get that being gay is part of his plot, but it's not the crux of the problem. The crux is his unwillingness to play the good Magister and marry some noble gal to produce noble magic babies. Being gay is why he's unwilling, but it's not what the father has an issue with, per se.
Really? She certainly talks a lot about seducing men.
Honestly, I don't really remember that being a big part of her character. I vaguely remember something about luring a guy into the woods. But that's about the extent of it. Outside of PC and PC related plots, I don't think of her as promiscuous at all. But I might be forgetting, I suppose.
Practically every TV show has a gay coming out storyline, I would rather have an actual storyline for the supposed "first" gay character instead of another stereotypical story you can get hundreds times over on TV.
And? Also i never felt like Dorian story is about coming out. If you catch on early you can easily understand that the friction between him and his father stems from his life choice, and failure to live up to his role as a magisters son. Which is also reflected by the dialogue options in his personal quest, which are just beautifully done by the way. They allow for both the player and Inquisitor to have realized it, or just one of them or none of them. Also the extra conversation with him as female accusing him of leading them on. It is overall well done.
But i am not a person that cares about tropes, and this has been to many times now its boring and stale. Everything can be Interesting aslong as it is done well, and i personally think Dorian was very well written and handled with amazing care. To each their own and all that.
I hadn't seen the fan art, all I saw was a Tevinter mage initially, and Tevinter mages are a bit flamboyant, as are some mages in general, so I personally didn't automatically jump to gay.
Beyond that, I have to ask, what's wrong with him being flamboyant and gay? I mean yes, I know about avoiding stereotypes, we covered that, but don't you think it might be a bit hurtful to those gay guys that are actually like this, to see people, especially LGBT people saying they would rather have Dorian not happen? I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious, as honestly, I've only had one outwardly gay friend that wasn't like Dorian, and that had average "straight guy" mannerisms and the like. The rest, like a co-worker of mine is very much like Dorian. I don't claim to know the demographic of flamboyant gays to not, and that's not the issue. I know many want others to see that there are many flavors of gay, not just the same one we always see, and that's fine but going so far as to say you wish Dorian didn't happen seems a bit extreme and like it would be hurtful to those who belong to the LGBT community and are like Dorian.
Because there are so many gay stereotypes like that in movies and TV shows already, practically every fashion shows or popular TV shows have an effeminate gay guy in it. Glee, Modern Family, America's Next Top Model, Fashion Runway. It just becomes the predominant perception of what a gay guy is supposed to act like. Many of my friends who are pro-gay actually thought that's how most gay people are and that there needs to be a feminine gay guy in a gay relationship. There is no balancing, especially for the supposed "first" gay character. The thing is how do you know those straight acting friends are not gay? Some could be in the closet while others you just may not know about. Going with a feminine gay guy especially for the first gay character seem to reinforce the idea of gay guys that have been misconstrued through the media that they're all feminine. The same as with nerdy Asians who are frequently no fun or a weirdo.
And? Also i never felt like Dorian story is about coming out. If you catch on early you can easily understand that the friction between him and his father stems from his life choice, and failure to live up to his role as a magisters son. Which is also reflected by the dialogue options in his personal quest, which are just beautifully done by the way. They allow for both the player and Inquisitor to have realized it, or just one of them or none of them. Also the extra conversation with him as female accusing him of leading them on. It is overall well done.
But i am not a person that cares about tropes, and this has been to many times now its boring and stale. Everything can be Interesting aslong as it is done well, and i personally think Dorian was very well written and handled with amazing care. To each their own and all that.
Tomato and tomahto, it's an allegory and consider how personal Dorian to David Gaider and how he wrote it based on his experience, it's definitely that. I would rather for Dorian to have his own story rather than a tired retelling of same old gay coming out with different setting.
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