1188 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

A boy not conforming to his parent's wishes? Not only is that common, that's pretty much my life in a nutshell, I'm not gay. Hence, I could relate to it, and no it isn't semantics, but rather a key aspect of Dorian's story that people too often overlook or don't understand.

 

Yeah, believe it or not , people don't need to share the same sexuality, or skin colour, or genitalia to be able to see similarities and parallels within their own life. Even if it isn't the exact same situation, people can still relate.

 

There is such a thing as empathy.

[Battlebloodmage]

A boy not conforming to his parent's wishes? Not only is that common, that's pretty much my life in a nutshell, I'm not gay. Hence, I could relate to it, and no it isn't semantics, but rather a key aspect of Dorian's story that people too often overlook or don't understand.

A boy who doesn't want to conform to his parents' wish to get married or date girls because he's gay, so that the parent tries to send him to straight camp, he runs away from home instead. 

[Battlebloodmage]

What? Kurt's father never tried to convert Kurt straight. He wasn't just supportive of his coming out of the closet he was completely unsurprised by it.

I said elements not everything, it was the coming out story with Kurt and both fathers understand it. I said elements of it presented in different form either gay conversion or coming out that can be found in various media. 

[Colonelkillabee]

A boy who doesn't want to conform to his parents' wish to get married or date girls because he's gay, so that the parent tries to send him to straight camp, he runs away from home instead. 

Except that isn't Dorian's story. Dorian didn't want to get married, because he loathed the girl. Not just for having a vagina, and his father probably didn't give a damn who he dated, just so long as he got married for politics and continuing the family line. Even if Dorian did like to pound snooch, he made it very clear that he didn't want to get married because of the girl's personality, and feeling in his father's control. You are oversimplifying his storyline.

[SnakeCode]

A boy who doesn't want to conform to his parents' wish to get married or date girls because he's gay, so that the parent tries to send him to straight camp, he runs away from home instead. 

 

Well, my gf's parents did not approve of me or her choice to date me for a long time because i'm white. It's not the same situation as Dorian exactly, but they still tried to make choices on her behalf and make her conform to what was expected of her. So I can definitely relate to a story of a parent trying to make their child uphold the customs of their culture.

[Lady Artifice]

I said elements not everything, it was the coming out story with Kurt and both fathers understand it. I said elements of it presented in different form either gay conversion or coming out that can be found in various media. 

 

You've illustrated nothing that demonstrates a parallel between these two stories, beyond both involving characters who are gay. Seriously, there was never so much as a whisper, aspect, or hint of sexuality conversion in Kurt's coming out. There certainly wasn't a multilayered exploration of different moral and ethical values between father and son that there was in Dorian's.

 

Kurt: Dad...I'm gay. ::scared face::

 

Burt: Well, duh. Now give me a hug.

[Catilina]

Except that isn't Dorian's story. Dorian didn't want to get married, because he loathed the girl. Not just for having a vagina, and his father probably didn't give a damn who he dated, just so long as he got married for politics and continuing the family line. Even if Dorian did like to pound snooch, he made it very clear that he didn't want to get married because of the girl's personality, and feeling in his father's control. You are oversimplifying his storyline.

Why? What does this change the bottom line?

[Battlebloodmage]

Except that isn't Dorian's story. Dorian didn't want to get married, because he loathed the girl. Not just for having a vagina, and his father probably didn't give a damn who he dated, just so long as he got married for politics and continuing the family line. Even if Dorian did like to pound snooch, he made it very clear that he didn't want to get married because of the girl's personality, and feeling in his father's control. You are oversimplifying his storyline.

Yeah, different variation of the same gay coming out or gay conversion storyline, the slight difference is just the reasons behind it. As I said, the structure and storyline are something that have been told hundreds of time. It's just semantic and slight variation in how they tell the storyline. Something considers personal to Gaider and from his experience is definitely about it. He said himself that just because it has been told many times doesn't mean that it shouldn't be told again, I'm paraphrasing here, so his intention for it is a gay conversion type storyline. 

[Battlebloodmage]

You've illustrated nothing that demonstrates a parallel between these two stories, beyond both involving characters who are gay. Seriously, there was never so much as a whisper, aspect, or hint of sexuality conversion in Kurt's coming out. There certainly wasn't a multilayered exploration of different moral and ethical values between father and son that there was in Dorian's.

 

Kurt: Dad...I'm gay. ::scared face::

 

Burt: Well, duh. Now give me a hug.

Heart to heart talk with the dad, dad accepts, they reconcile and share a warming moment. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Why? What does this change the bottom line?

The bottom line is Dorian's story is about wanting to remain free, not about wanting to remain gay. It isn't about being gay, it's about a father that doesn't get his son, the same way people here don't get Dorian.

[Lady Artifice]

Heart to heart talk with the dad, dad accepts, they reconcile and share a warming moment. 

 

That is indeed what happened in Glee, not so much what happened with Dorian. But you know that because it's those missing middle parts that you've been pushing as a harmfully stereotypically portrayal of the gay experience.

 

Also, is the above scenario in some way a bad thing?

[Hellion Rex]

Most masculine gay guys don't usually go to gay bars. 

You're joking, right? 

[Catilina]

The bottom line is Dorian's story is about wanting to remain free, not about wanting to remain gay. It isn't about being gay, it's about a father that doesn't get his son, the same way people here don't get Dorian.

 

You want to return, to Dorian irresponsible and selfish?

[Battlebloodmage]

You're joking, right? 

From my personal experience and the places I've been to. Most of the guys I meet there are feminine. Of course, that doesn't mean it's true elsewhere. I have more of a problem with people saying that most gay guys are feminine because he goes to a gay bar and find most gay guys there are feminine. 

[Hellion Rex]

The bottom line is Dorian's story is about wanting to remain free, not about wanting to remain gay. It isn't about being gay, it's about a father that doesn't get his son, the same way people here don't get Dorian.

Still inclined to disagree, but I do respect your take on his characterization and storyline.

[Hellion Rex]

From my personal experience. Most of the guys I meet there are feminine. Of course, that doesn't mean it's true elsewhere. 

Out of curiosity, where are you from?

[Battlebloodmage]

Out of curiosity, where are you from?

California

[Colonelkillabee]

 

 

You want to return, to Dorian irresponsible and selfish?

 

Not sure what you are trying to ask here.

[Catilina]

Not sure what you are trying to ask here.

Okay, just an old thread, then sorry.

[Lady Artifice]

You want to return, to Dorian irresponsible and selfish?

 

 

Right, the responsible and unselfish thing would certainly be to sit on a cushion in a senate hall planning how best to backstab the other Magisters into more power and a better chance to perpetuate an established genealogical hierarchy.

[Catilina]

Right, the responsible and unselfish thing would certainly be to sit on a cushion in a senate hall planning how best to backstab the other Magisters into more power and a better chance to perpetuate an established genealogical hierarchy.

 

Naturally

[Gilli]

I agree with those, who say they want well written charas.

 

I don't care which sexuality a character has, as long as he/she is a character with a well written personality.

 

I have to play a male character to romance Cassandra and Dorian? Okay

I have to play a female character to romance Cullen, Sera, Blackwall, Solas? Okay.

 

Yes, I know not everyone thinks like this, but for me it isn't "me" who romances those characters. It is the chara I'm playing who romances them.

And sometimes my own characters have their own minds and "choose" someone else than I had planned for them.

For example some years ago, I started writing a fanfic only with OCs. (I never got past writing the prologue tho  )

Of course I thought up some pairings and one of them bugged me.

I just couldn't figure out why this one girl didn't have any chemistry with that one guy.

Then it hit me.

She's a lesbian. 

 

Having said all this, I want to add that I DON'T want an all Bi cast. I like having to play different characters/genders to romance different characters, because it makes the game feel less "the same" for me.

[Biotic Apostate]

Researchers are working on an archive of the history of LGBTQ content in games. I attended a talk on this over the weekend. A public version (of the work so far, mid 80s-1999, with the rest of the years in the process) is set to go up in the next few weeks. Surprisingly, there are differences in representation in games versus other media as well over a similar time period. I'm looking forward to combing through the archive when it's up and watching it grow. And as far as the spectrum, yeah, there's always a risk of alienating some people, and that's why varied depictions are so important. To give more people people they can relate to.

That sounds really nice, be sure to link it here somewhere once it's up!

 

And what you, Dave, and a few people said sums up my thoughts about this thread. LGBTs are a varied group. There's no common rule as to what what kind of characters are bad or good. Dorian is not a bad gay character, just like the awaited gay KISA is not the one gay to rule them all. While Dorian's romance was not what I was looking for, many enjoyed it. And there's nothing wrong with that. As long as BW doesn't depict gay men in just one certain way (and they haven't yet, you can't get a pattern with 2 characters that are nothing alike), they are doing nothing wrong. Variety will allow more people to feel welcome, and that is something that BW strives for.

 

I would prefer more threads that focus on what people specifically want to see in future gay/bi characters, rather than what they dislike. It's far more positive, and far more valuable to any devs that might be lurking.

 

Well, he wasn't wrong.  It will dry off.  Thanks, wise bear!

 I snorted so hard at this.

[Witch Cocktor]

I would prefer more threads that focus on what people specifically want to see in future gay/bi characters, rather than what they dislike. It's far more positive, and far more valuable to any devs that might be lurking.

Good point. 

[Illyria]

I would prefer more threads that focus on what people specifically want to see in future gay/bi characters, rather than what they dislike. It's far more positive, and far more valuable to any devs that might be lurking.

 

Alistair.

 

But as a woman.