1188 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

I know its not a popular opinion, but I wish there were only 2 LIs per game, 1 male 'n' 1 female, romanceable by any character.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind that either.  I don't want it to be their go-to approach to romance.  But I don't think it would be the end of the world if ME:A or DA4 had just 1 male and 1 female LI.  Kind of like KOTOR (minus Juhani's quasi-romance).  But, the most important thing for me would be that both of the LI's would need to be critical to the plot.  Not like Leliana/Zevran/Fenris/Sebastian/Bull/Sera/Dorian, who are all, in actuality, not terribly ancillary to the stories.  The other very important thing would be that there wouldn't be race/gender gating of the romances, either.  Any character (male, female, human, dwarf, qunari, elf, etc.) could romance either LI.  Would it mean that not everyone is happy with the romance options?  Definitely.  But how is that different now?  Half of the online discussions now (on prety much any site) talk about romance and half of the messages in those discussions are disappointed people.  Basically, they can't win, so that's not really a concern for me.

 

Again, it's not that I want this to be the model going forward, but it wouldn't bother me if this happened in an upcoming game.  I also wouldn't mind if they do another 4 bisexual option game.  I also wouldn't mind if they do another variety of sexualities game.  I just want to see it mixed up a bit.  And I don't want to see them get locked into an ever expanding cast of LI's if that's not where they want to go with it. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

My concern about only having two options is that going on past evidence I'd be likely to find the choices bland. The only favourite of mine who'd likely be a romance under such a system is Alistair. (And Anomen and Valen, I guess, but that was back when female PCs only ever got one dude.) I'd be sorry to miss out on the likes of Zevran, Fenris, Merrill, Blackwall, Sera, Dorian and Bull. And there would be absolutely no possibility of a dwarf or qunari LI if there were only two choices.

 

Could work in several games:

KOTOR: Carth, Bastila

 

Ugh. Carth is the only male BioWare romance option I actually HATE. Never have I been so happy that I could play a lesbian and romance a catgirl instead!

ME2: Miranda, Jacob

ME3: Ashley, Kaidan

 

BUT WHAT ABOUT GARRUS??????

 

I can see how this selection would work for a lot of people, but it would have been terrible for me.

[Illyria]

*is hoping for a adorkable qunari gay LI but knows it wont happen because we already got IB and if the DA4 cast has a qunari it would probably be a woman, and knowing this i wallow in misery*

 

An adorkable and quirky lesbian qunari sounds perfect.

[Illyria]

Could work in several games:

KOTOR: Carth, Bastila

TSL: Atton, Visas

ME: Ashley, Kaidan

ME2: Miranda, Jacob

ME3: Ashley, Kaidan

DAO: Morrigan, Alistair

DA2: Anders, Isabela

DAI: Cass, Solas

 

ME: No thanks.  Where's Liara?

 

ME2: God no.

 

ME3: Pining Over Liara: Part Three

 

DAO: Probably be okay with this.  Would probably pine over Leliana though.

 

DA2: Hawke Gets Distracted By The Pretty Elves She Can't Be With: The Game

 

DAI: Would more likely be Cass and Blackwall, since Solas' romance was last minute and also has very little impact on that character if you're not a Lavellan.  And no.  Would still like to be able to romance Josie and Sera, or Dorian (as a guy).
 

[Addictress]

I find the idea of black actors or characters playing traditionally white roles and women playing traditionally male roles in comics or movies or games for no story related reason or lore related rather preposterous.

Why ?

1) It is a petty form of virtue signalling. You do not see this in any other parts of the world. You won't see this in the Asian film industry, the African film industry, the Middle Eastern film industry, Asian gaming industry, Asian comic book industry etc.

Whenever there is a race change or sex change in non-Western creative production, there is a story related reason or lore related reason, usually magic.Marvel did not explain why Nick Fury changed his skin color. DC did not explain why Jimmy Olsen and the West family changed their skin color.

They just did it because:- "Look at us ! We made a black actor play the white male role ! Look, we gender swapped someone ! Look at how morally righteous, progressive and awesome we are ! Please give us teh moneh !"

2) It gives an excuse for the movie makers and even game developers to develop a half-arsed product and then deflect all criticism by using the racism or sexism card.

Look at the Ghostbusters reboot where the filmmakers have been responding to criticisms by crying out "muh soggy knees". Or how about EA, who said that its bad ratings were due to "anti-gay sentiments". Or how about Beamdog who decided to label those who criticized the latest Baldur's Gate DLC as transphobic.

3) This last reason is for those who believe media affects people in a significant manner. I mean, what message is the fictional entertainment industry sending by blindly race swapping and sex swapping characters ?

Here's the message they will be sending to their audience and the public and their audience :- "Oh hey there. Are you are black or a woman ? Do you want to be famous ? Well good news, you can do that now by just inserting yourself into the white guy role. No hard work, no training and no justification required ! Just insert and retcon away, because its the current year."

4) Lastly, this move sidelines existing characters and fosters a sense of laziness. I mean why bother creating new and interesting black characters or female characters ? Just have them take over the white male role. No real creative work required, we get some progressive brownie points and we can pat ourselves in the back for it.

There is also the sidelining that I mentioned. Take female Thor, a completely unnecessary thing to do. Why ? Because they have Brunhilde, Lady Sif and the Valkyries, all of whom are part of the Marvel universe. Instead of developing their story, Marvel sidelined them in favor of ruining Thor. Or how about characters like Vixen, Aqualad, Rocket, Static and Jon Stewart in the DC Comics ? They were existing black characters. Vixen and Rocket are black female characters. Instead of developing them more and giving them more publicity, they decided to turn the West family and Jimmy Olsen black.

TL;DR - I am really against sex and race changes of any character. without any proper storytelling (& not the useless female Thor kind of storytelling). For the most part, I'd rather they don't do it at all.

I completely get what you mean but you're missing a basic fundamental point.

You haven't deconstructed what "white male role" even is yet. You keep banging on about inserting minorities into the "white male role" without questioning the "white male role" in the first place.

[Catilina]

I know its not a popular opinion, but I wish there were only 2 LIs per game, 1 male 'n' 1 female, romanceable by any character.

Absolutly no! (Why would be good?)

[Catilina]

*is hoping for a adorkable qunari gay LI [...]

Agree. (DA2-like for me – for the sake of variety)

[Qun00]

Btw, I like the idea of gay Luke; it makes me think of another great warrior, who was probably gay - the Great Alexander.

Meh. Wasn't he bisexual?

[Illyria]

Meh. Wasn't he bisexual?

 

He was.

[Andromelek]

Meh. Wasn't he bisexual?

Mark Hamill doesn't write Luke's character (he even admitted that wasn't really paying attention to the franchise after the Episode VI, he likely doesn't know that Luke used to be straight on the EU) so, I wouldn't take his word as an absolute truth, besides, Leia's kiss would make him bi rather than gay.

[Illyria]

Mark Hamill doesn't write Luke's character (he even admitted that wasn't really paying attention to the franchise after the Episode VI, he likely doesn't know that Luke used to be straight on the EU) so, I wouldn't take his word as an absolute truth, besides, Leia's kiss would make him bi rather than gay.

 

The EU is non-canon.  Hamill's comments were directed towards fans who asked him if Luke was bi, gay or trans and Hamill replied that since Luke isn't canon anything he could be if they wanted him to be.  Which is really sweet.

[9TailsFox]

The EU is non-canon.  Hamill's comments were directed towards fans who asked him if Luke was bi, gay or trans and Hamill replied that since Luke isn't canon anything he could be if they wanted him to be.  Which is really sweet.

Lets make superman black, black panther white, hulk blue, iron fist asian, and change character sexuality, gender because reasons. Oh but it's not big deal, yes it is, imagine if Dorian married women in DA:4 and he is happy, what not the same?

[Witch Cocktor]

Can this thread go on ONE ****** DAY without people being pissy edgelords.

 

Big qunari cocks in my face in DA4 thanks.

[vbibbi]

I know its not a popular opinion, but I wish there were only 2 LIs per game, 1 male 'n' 1 female, romanceable by any character.

 

I think a lot of people would complain that there aren't any straight LIs in that case. Because dating a bisexual person means they're actually dating someone gay

 

A lot of the complaints I've heard about DAI's romance for straight males is that Cassandra is the "only" option since Josie is actually bisexual.

 

Or people will complain at how unrealistic it is that the PC happens to find two bisexual NPCs in their party in every game. And that bisexual people are hypersexual since they can always be romanced but the straight or gay companions can't. Or that there won't even be any gay companions since the only reason they're already included in games is to serve as a LI (which I actually do find irritating)

 

Could work in several games:

KOTOR: Carth, Bastila

TSL: Atton, Visas

ME: Ashley, Kaidan

ME2: Miranda, Jacob

ME3: Ashley, Kaidan

DAO: Morrigan, Alistair

DA2: Anders, Isabela

DAI: Cass, Solas

 

But then this also means that the writers must limit themselves on how they use the companions. Either they don't force Kaidan/Ashley Virmire decision, or ME3 will only have one LI. In DAI, people wanting to romance a man are forced to romance someone who will break up with them and threaten to end the world. No chance of a happy ending.

 

 

 

I think the minimum amount of LIs should be 4. Two can be plot central and the other two can be a bit safer (in that since they aren't tied to the plot, they can focus more on their relationship with the PC and not be railroaded onto a certain path). But it shouldn't always be that the straight LIs are the plot central ones, they can mix it up (DAO).

 

I would laugh if they had 4 LIs, two bisexual and two gay LIs. But I doubt that will ever happen.

[Artona]

 

Can this thread go on ONE ****** DAY without people being pissy edgelords.

 

Could you stop lowering level of this threas with such pointlessly aggressive comments? Thanks. 

 

 

Meh. Wasn't he bisexual? 

 

 

 

I'm not into EU lore, but gay Luke fits my vision of this character perfectly. And I don't think that one kiss with Leia means that he is "at least" bisexual. 

[Catilina]

Could you stop lowering level of this threas with such pointlessly aggressive comments? Thanks. 

 

 

(Just for the sake of truth: three of us asked for it very nicely before...)

[Illyria]

Lets make superman black, black panther white, hulk blue, iron fist asian, and change character sexuality, gender because reasons. Oh but it's not big deal, yes it is, imagine if Dorian married women in DA:4 and he is happy, what not the same?

 

Oh no!  An actor of a popular character makes fans feel included by saying that Luke could be bi, gay or trans!

 

What horror.  What a terrible thing!  People feeling included?  In MY media?  The scandal!  The horror!  In the future people will ask themselves: where were you on the 15th of April 2016 when people were forced to confront the idea of inclusivity in the media?  I know I'll never forget.

[Illyria]

I'm not into EU lore, but gay Luke fits my vision of this character perfectly. And I don't think that one kiss with Leia means that he is "at least" bisexual. 

 

I thought you guys were talking about Alexander the Great.  Who was bisexual.

 

(also Luke could easily be gay since it's likely he would've felt a powerful connection with Leia and mistaken that for romantic love).

[Artona]

 

I thought you guys were talking about Alexander the Great.  Who was bisexual.

 

Oh, sorry, my bad. I'd argue over Argead's sexuality - he had no relationship with women comparable with the one with Hepheastion, maybe excluding Olympias; and at least one historian, Peter Green, points out Alexander's general lack of interest in women.
But that's off-topic. 

[Illyria]

Oh, sorry, my bad. I'd argue over Argead's sexuality - he had no relationship with women comparable with the one with Hepheastion, maybe excluding Olympias; and at least one historian, Peter Green, points out Alexander's general lack of interest in women.
But that's off-topic. 

 

I'll take your word for it.  I don't know enough about the subject.

[9TailsFox]

Oh no!  An actor of a popular character makes fans feel included by saying that Luke could be bi, gay or trans!

 

What horror.  What a terrible thing!  People feeling included?  In MY media?  The scandal!  The horror!  In the future people will ask themselves: where were you on the 15th of April 2016 when people were forced to confront the idea of inclusivity in the media?  I know I'll never forget.

Do you even read what I write? Or you just put fingers in you ears and sing lalala. I am talking about established characters. Do what Bioware create new character Dorian is great he is funny and smart and Tevinter (mage power). Sera I don't like her because she is annoying brat, but still she is good character.

 

Look at supergirl TV show she is perfect blonde like in the comics, and look at Jimmy Olson I don't know who it is but it's not Jimmy wtf think to make him not ginger and so much muscles really? he is small. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Could work in several games:

KOTOR: Carth, Bastila

TSL: Atton, Visas

ME: Ashley, Kaidan

ME2: Miranda, Jacob

ME3: Ashley, Kaidan

DAO: Morrigan, Alistair

DA2: Anders, Isabela

DAI: Cass, Solas

Sorry, I don't want to stuck with just one option, and most of those options I wouldn't want to romance since I like, ME1: Kaidan, couldn't stand Ashley or Liara. ME2: Garrus, Tali. ME3: Kaidan, Tali. DAO: Morrigan, alistair. DA2: All the guys are horrible, Isabela. DAI: Cullen, Cassandra. Not everyone will have the same opinion about that one LI, and there is on one option fits all. I see a lot of people liking Cullen, but a few dislike him as well. I'm not sure what's wrong with the 6 option where everyone get at least a choice. 

[Andromelek]

I bet that if Morrigan or Alistair are suddenly turned on gay, people would be pissed... so why you complain of people complaining for changing defined characters?

[Illyria]

Do you even read what I write? Or you just put fingers in you ears and sing lalala. I am talking about established characters. Do what Bioware create new character Dorian is great he is funny and smart and Tevinter (mage power). Sera I don't like her because she is annoying brat, but still she is good character.

 

Look at supergirl TV show she is perfect blonde like in the comics, and look at Jimmy Olson I don't know who it is but it's not Jimmy wtf think to make him not ginger and so much muscles really? he is small. 

 

I read what you said.  And my (admittedly slightly aggressively sarcastic) point still stands.

 

What's the issue?  In what way is Jimmy Olsen being white and ginger vital to his character?  I don't know much about Superman or the connected Superfamily so I'm asking that honestly.  Other than 'well, he's always been like that' (and the character, according to a quick search, was created in 1941 when it was highly unlikely that he would've been anything other than white due to attitudes of the time).  In what way is it 'bad' to take a character (again, created in 1941) and cast a black actor?  Ed Brubaker completely reinvented the history of Bucky Barnes for The Winter Soldier and that's the same princple.  He took a character and changed them.

[Battlebloodmage]

Do you even read what I write? Or you just put fingers in you ears and sing lalala. I am talking about established characters. Do what Bioware create new character Dorian is great he is funny and smart and Tevinter (mage power). Sera I don't like her because she is annoying brat, but still she is good character.

 

Look at supergirl TV show she is perfect blonde like in the comics, and look at Jimmy Olson I don't know who it is but it's not Jimmy wtf think to make him not ginger and so much muscles really? he is small. 

New comic book characters don't sell, both DC and Marvel tried to establish new characters all the time, but none of them stick, gay or straight or of any race. All the characters are pretty old already, and I haven't seen any successful character being made in recent year that become an A lister. Comic books fans only buy the same comic books by the same characters.

 

As for Supergirl, sex sells. All the superheroes are pretty and good looking, even Deadpool was played by Ryan Reynolds. 

 

Dorian is not a good example for me. It's like his character was made just to tell a gay story, like that one gay episode in a TV series you see with that one gay character and with that one gay story. Characters need to make to flow organic with the story, as part of the story, and not an existing piece inserting into a story. It feels a bit too out of place with the rest of the story for me.