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[OnePenguinNavy]

No, you fed into him! DONT DO IT!

i need a laugh with my coffee

[GoldenGail3]

I certainly thought he was.
 
Despite the unfinished and unpolished state of the game, I felt it had a lot of good and neats ideas which was why it is disappointed that only so much of it managed to shone through because the potential for so much more were most certainly there. 
 
I think I once heard it said that Knights of the Old Republic II was a deconstruction of Star Wars tropes whereas Knights of the Old Republic was intended as a reconstruction of Star Wars tropes. This should not be taken as criticism towards one or the other of the two but as a way of explaining the differences between the two.
 
Of the characters I've roleplayed over the years, the Exile remains one of my indisputable favorites: She felt like a person with all the complexities and nuances of character that follows. It helped that the game tried to explore the effects that war has on a person but without trying to divide war and what it entails into light and dark, good or evil. It made for some very interesting oppertunities in terms of roleplaying though the revelation is difficult as it is an event that you should know but do not thereby leaving you to roleplay the effect of an event that you do not know.

At least the suits in KOTOR 2 are more or less more accurate then KOTOR1 where you could hear yourself breath in space and hear your footprints...

But anyhow, I never got that far into KOTOR2 in the first place....

[Andromelek]

I'm curious, would anyone be interested in a villain like Darth Sion with how he has this infatuation towards the female protagonist?
 
I felt it provided a neat insight into the character of Darth Sion while also adding an interesting aspect. He came to have unwanted feelings for  the Exile that he saw as weakness including one that could mean his death which is interesting given how Darth Sion's power worked. His hatred, as he saw it, towards the Exile was likely also because it was a reminder to him that he had managed to rid himself of all human aspects despite wanting to.  
 
Yet by the final confrontation between the two, he sought to kill the Exile because he thought he was saving them. He thought Kreia would destroy them and perhaps not in the sense of a physical death but the sense of the death of their person; she would destroy the person that was the Exile in his mind and so destroy what he had come to love.  
 Darth Sion: "I hate you because you are beautiful to me, and in that weakness lies death"  
 
It was tragic, unsettling and altogether very fascinating to me. Depending on it would be executed, I would very much be interested in seeing something like this but perhaps include both genders.

All Siths from KOTOR 2 were great (Nihilus was my favourite, though) but I loved how they used Sion, a villain that you can't take down by brute force but by eroding his will, yes I would love a type of villain like him, maybe not completely the same, I think that adding some of Darth Jadus' personality to the merge would be great.

[Shechinah]

I'm curious, would anyone be interested in a character like Bao-Dur for a romance option? He was this quiet, alien engineer that once worked with the Exile, the protagonist of the game, during the war they both partook in and showed signs he cared about them not just as a commander but as a person that felt very genuine. He had scars from what happened during the war included from what he built for the Exile.

 

He was also awesome at Unarmed Combat and had this artificial arm that could punch out force fields. I am also one of the people who really dug his voice for how quiet it was.    

 

I was always a bit disappointed that he was not a romance because he felt like he had a connection to the Exile, regardless of gender, that worked both romantically and platonically. That and he would have been a very nice alternative to Alton and the Disciple for the female Exile.       

[Shechinah]

I could also relate to his reaction to being asked by Alton about the latter's chances with the Exile.

 

Transcript

Alton: "Got a minute?"
Bao-Dur: "I'm a little busy here. What is it?"
Alton: "Won't take more than a minute."
Bao-Dur: "All right, I'll work while you talk."
Alton: "Look, your friend, the Jedi - you know her from why back, don't you. How much do you know about her, really?"
Bao-Dur: "Her? You mean the General? Yeah, during the war, if that's what you mean by way back. Can't say I know too much about her, though."
Alton: "Better than anyone else on this ship. Just give me your opinion, okay? And don't laugh."
Bao-Dur: "I'm trying to work here, Alton."
Alton: "I was just wondering if you thought, maybe she and I might-"
Bao-Dur: "You're being serious."
Alton: "You said you wouldn't laugh."
Bao-Dur: "You are being serious, Alton, she was a general, I was just a tech. Your guess is about as good as mine."
Alton: "Well, what's your guess then?"
Bao-Dur: "I'm getting back to work."
Alton: "Hey! I'm being serious here."

[Shechinah]

Here is the final fight between the Exile and Darth Sion which I consider to be awesome;

[GoldenGail3]

Here is the final fight between the Exile and Darth Sion which I consider to be awesome;https://www.youtube....h?v=cNAI7EM_zVg

Ah, well your my last post for tonight..

I wish I had played KOTOR2 more, but meh... I was feeling so indifferent about it, it was like DA2 again...

[Hellion Rex]

Well, my blood is boiling after reading the last few pages. Self hate, my butt...

[Andromelek]

Here is the final fight between the Exile and Darth Sion which I consider to be awesome;https://www.youtube....h?v=cNAI7EM_zVg

Good that they went this way, as far as I know the original idea was to have Nihilus utterly crushing Sion once their alliance was over, but devs wanted Sion to be a boss fight too, so they changed it to Nihilus kicking Sion's butt and just sending him back to home.

[Shechinah]

Ah, well your my last post for tonight..

I wish I had played KOTOR2 more, but meh... I was feeling so indifferent about it, it was like DA2 again...

I understand: It's not for everybody and the unfinished state of the game can contribute to why.

[Shechinah]

Good that they went this way, as far as I know the original idea was to have Nihilus utterly crushing Sion once their alliance was over, but devs wanted Sion to be a boss fight too, so they changed it to Nihilus kicking Sion's butt and just sending him back to home.

 

I love that they went this way and especially that they made the fight into a combination of combat and dialogue. This made sense given what and who Darth Sion is.

[Addictress]

Um
Do you think I'd offend the world if I downloaded a mod that allows female PC's to romance Dorian?

Because
I'm interested in that mod

[Artona]

Why would you care if you "offend the world"? Play the game the way you like .

[fhs33721]

Ugh, KOTOR II the worst bugged mess I ever had the dubious pleasure of enjoying.

A shame too because the story was quite decent. Well at least it was until the final act in which it became a complete and utter trainwreck that stopped being even remotely cohesive. And worst of all I had to restart the entirety of Nar Shadda not once but twice, because of some bug. Up to this day I couldn't bring myself to start a second playthrough.

[daveliam]

I'm curious, would anyone be interested in a character like Bao-Dur for a romance option? He was this quiet, alien engineer that once worked with the Exile, the protagonist of the game, during the war they both partook in and showed signs he cared about them not just as a commander but as a person that felt very genuine. He had scars from what happened during the war included from what he built for the Exile.

 

He was also awesome at Unarmed Combat and had this artificial arm that could punch out force fields. I am also one of the people who really dug his voice for how quiet it was.    

 

I was always a bit disappointed that he was not a romance because he felt like he had a connection to the Exile, regardless of gender, that worked both romantically and platonically. That and he would have been a very nice alternative to Alton and the Disciple for the female Exile.       

 

For sure.  I loved Bao-Dur.  He was actually the male character that I would most want to be a m/m romance in that game. Atton and Disciple are okay, but Bao-Dur was ****** awesome.  I'm pretty sure that they originally intended for him to die, though, which is why he doesn't show up at all on the final planet and you just play as his training droid. 

[Shechinah]

 I'm pretty sure that they originally intended for him to die, though, which is why he doesn't show up at all on the final planet and you just play as his training droid. 

 

I think they have confirmed that they intended for him to sacrifice himself during the Battle of Telos during the game's final act but because they were unable to implement it fully due to time constraints, they decided to leave it ambiguous.

 

A restoration mod contains content in which Atton briefly mentions Bao-Dur is missing and a scene where he appeared as a force-ghost to the Exile and provided them with an inspirational monologue prior to the Malachor portion. I think his sacrifice was connected to the HK factory.

 

It is sweet that he left instructions for Remote to help the Exile on Malachor after his death and tells Remote to make sure the General is safe though I find it somewhat amusing that his instructions only involve the Exile and not any other member of their party. I know this is likely because of time restraints or oversight but it unintentionally comes off like this;

 

Hologram of Bao-Dur: "Once the sequence has begun, it cannot be stooped, so make sure the General is off the planet before triggering the sequence. Otherwise, there will be no retreat."

Remote: "Beep Boop?"

Hologram of Bao-Dur: "Oh, I suppose you could wait for the others to be off the planet as well.  

[Xilizhra]

He is described in the books. He isn't a black guy, it's that simple. Why not make him a woman too? Ot trans since it's the topic of the hour?

 

Of course the obvious way around this is to go down the fan theory route and say James Bond is a code name used by multiple agents. I don't actually mind if Idris Elba gets the role, I think he's a fine actor and I don't really care about them changing a characters skin colour.

 

There's no two ways about it though, if a white actor was cast as say, Black Panther, many of the same people praising black James Bond or female Thor would go apesh*t. Rightly or wrongly. It's a double standard, changing white character's ethnicity, male characters to female, straight characters to gay etc is absolutely fine, a positive thing even. The other way around? Not so much.

 

And yes, I know the argument that there are more characters who are straight, white men so changing a few doesn't matter, whereas there aren't many black or gay characters etc so removing one would be a way bigger issue. I just disagree, it's still a double standard.

 

 

Edit- Double quote for some reason.

It's exceedingly simple. If someone's gender or ethnicity is a plot point/part of their character, changing it would be incorrect. If it's not, it's fine. For instance, it would be rather silly to use Captain America's standard origin and have him be a woman, as the 1940's Army wouldn't use the serum on her. Having Black Panther be white would be equally absurd, due to the importance race plays in his character arc. On the other hand, Spider-Man's race and gender are both completely irrelevant. And with James Bond having already been rebooted multiple times to the point where "British superspy" is the only important commonality between them, there are plenty of possible backgrounds that would make sense.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

It's exceedingly simple. If someone's gender or ethnicity is a plot point/part of their character, changing it would be incorrect. If it's not, it's fine. For instance, it would be rather silly to use Captain America's standard origin and have him be a woman, as the 1940's Army wouldn't use the serum on her. Having Black Panther be white would be equally absurd, due to the importance race plays in his character arc. On the other hand, Spider-Man's race and gender are both completely irrelevant. And with James Bond having already been rebooted multiple times to the point where "British superspy" is the only important commonality between them, there are plenty of possible backgrounds that would make sense.

 

Reboots do not justify double standards.

[Xilizhra]

Reboots do not justify double standards.

Then please, tell me what importance Bond's race or gender has to the plot.

[Valhallix]

This is only how it is in the Dragon Age series. Cortez and Kaidan weren't flamboyant and both were "strong" characters. Heck in 3 Kaidan was basically a tank. In DA it's much different, ha even Trevelyan turns flamboyant and submissive in a same sex relationship.

I also agree with the people saying changing well established characters to be PC is wrong. It's also very lazy. For those who argue the point that there are more straight white male characters. Well there's also more white male actors. Demographics, what do you expect living in a western nation? for a minority group to be the most represented? lol would you go to China and complain about most of their portrayals being of Chinese people? no. Then you should expect the same from Europeans and or former European colonies.

The only way this really changes is if more minority groups get into production. Comics, Films, Games etc. Thing is when many do they often cater heavily to their own group making it impossible for people not of that culture to relate (take tv shows on BET as an example or Tyler Perry film they're made for black audiences). So they only appeal to one demographic, and end up not being as successful.

[Shechinah]

So apparently the novelisation of the Force Awakens suggests that Snoke has been manipulating and influencing Kylo Ren's mind since his birth which is speculated by people to be where some of his mental and emotional issues stem from.

 

Some people that subscribe to the theory that Anakin had Borderline Personality Disorder also subscribe to the theory that Kylo Ren might have that as well. I still prefer my theory but it is interesting stuff to read and not in the slighest without merits.     

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Then please, tell me what importance Bond's race or gender has to the plot.

 

Because of respect for the source material. This is an illustration Ian Fleming did of James Bond.

 

 

He is a white man with dark hair. But then again, I suspect you don't have any respect for white men or for the source material and the creator's vision.
 

[Andromelek]

So apparently the novelisation of the Force Awakens suggests that Snoke has been manipulating and influencing Kylo Ren's mind since his birth which is speculated by people to be where some of his mental and emotional issues stem from.
 
Some people that subscribe to the theory that Anakin had Borderline Personality Disorder also subscribe to the theory that Kylo Ren might have that as well. I still prefer my theory but it is interesting stuff to read and not in the slighest without merits.

I wonder why the manipulative dude has always to be an old guy? Young people also can have brains, you know?

[Shechinah]

I wonder why the manipulative dude has always to be an old guy? Young people also can have brains, you know?

 

It's hard to manipulate someone from birth when you are about the same age. I mean, it is doable but difficult nonetheless. I see what you mean, of course .

 

Hopefully we'll see more of the Knights of Ren, the dark side organization that operates under the command of Snoke. It could show some of what you want; Kylo Ren is manipulative towards the Knights and Snoke is manipulative towards Kylo Ren. Everybody's manipulating everybody!

[Xilizhra]

Because of respect for the source material. This is an illustration Ian Fleming did of James Bond.

 

 

He is a white man with dark hair. But then again, I suspect you don't have any respect for white men or for the source material and the creator's vision.
 

So Daniel Craig is also disrespecting the creator's vision?