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[Shechinah]

Fun fact: the Stormtrooper portrayed by Daniel Craig is named JB-007

 

Wauw, I made my post before I saw the above post.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

So Daniel Craig is also disrespecting the creator's vision?

 

I never liked Craig as Bond. My favorite is Sean Connery followed by Pierce Brosnan.

[Xilizhra]

I never liked Craig as Bond. My favorite is Sean Connery followed by Pierce Brosnan.

Well, while I'm glad that you'd have no problem with a black Hermione Granger, I disagree that all media based on any past creations must march in lockstep with the exact thing depicted in said creation.

[Andromelek]

It's hard to manipulate someone from birth when you are about the same age. I mean, it is doable but difficult nonetheless. I see what you mean, of course .
 
Hopefully we'll see more of the Knights of Ren, the dark side organization that operates under the command of Snoke. It could show some of what you want; Kylo Ren is manipulative towards the Knights and Snoke is manipulative towards Kylo Ren. Everybody's manipulating everybody!

Would be more likely that one of the other Knights is manipulating Kylo as well, since he's not leader or founder of the group... though, it was hinted that Phasma is gonna be a freaking genius in the next movie (which could include manipulating the resistance), hope that's true... with Grievous watered down, Kota and Thrawn on a non-existent hole, and Veers' achievements on the same hole, we need a wit military mind

[Valhallix]

Because of respect for the source material. This is an illustration Ian Fleming did of James Bond.
 

 
He is a white man with dark hair. But then again, I suspect you don't have any respect for white men or for the source material and the creator's vision.

It's exceedingly simple. If someone's gender or ethnicity is a plot point/part of their character, changing it would be incorrect. If it's not, it's fine. For instance, it would be rather silly to use Captain America's standard origin and have him be a woman, as the 1940's Army wouldn't use the serum on her. Having Black Panther be white would be equally absurd, due to the importance race plays in his character arc. On the other hand, Spider-Man's race and gender are both completely irrelevant. And with James Bond having already been rebooted multiple times to the point where "British superspy" is the only important commonality between them, there are plenty of possible backgrounds that would make sense.

Why is Spidey less important? Peter Parker is a well established character going back to the 40s (was it?). Peter Parker and his origin IS the Spiderman millions have come to love. If you want new versions of him create different characters like they've done with Silk. Don't rewrite the character or his origin though.

You actually just highlighted an issue between White characters and non-white. Black Panther's race shouldn't be why he's a good character. Too many follow this pattern and that's why they end up not being as successful. Peter Parker is a well established character with decades of content under his belt, he is Spiderman as much as Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne are Superman and Batman. However the difference is, their race never became their characters. They might be white (kryptonian white LOL), but they also appeal to everyone because of this fact. Characters who only exist to combat the status quo usually only appeal to a niche.

[Shechinah]

Because of respect for the source material. This is an illustration Ian Fleming did of James Bond.

 

He is a white man with dark hair.
 

 

Did Ian Fleming or the books confirm the color of his hair? Because dark red tends to be illustrated in black while lighter shades tend to be grey, in my experience.

 

It may be me misremembering but did James Bond ever dye his hair for a mission or am I confusing spies?  
 

[Xilizhra]

Why is Spidey less important? Peter Parker is a well established character going back to the 40s (was it?). Peter Parker and his origin IS the Spiderman millions have come to love. If you want new versions of him create different characters like they've done with Silk. Don't rewrite the character or his origin though.

You actually just highlighted an issue between White characters and non-white. Black Panther's race shouldn't be why he's a good character. Too many follow this pattern and that's why they end up not being as successful. Peter Parker is a well established character with decades of content under his belt, he is Spiderman as much as Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne are Superman and Batman. However the difference is, their race never became their characters. They might be white (kryptonian white LOL), but they also appeal to everyone because of this fact. Characters who only exist to combat the status quo usually only appeal to a niche.

I'm not saying that Black Panther is good because of his race, I'm saying that his race is important to his plot in a way that Peter Parker's is not. It's not as though the important aspects of Peter's backstory would be logically race- or gender-segregated anymore, so it changes nothing important to change either one.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Why is Spidey less important? Peter Parker is a well established character going back to the 40s (was it?). Peter Parker and his origin IS the Spiderman millions have come to love. If you want new versions of him create different characters like they've done with Silk. Don't rewrite the character or his origin though.

You actually just highlighted an issue between White characters and non-white. Black Panther's race shouldn't be why he's a good character. Too many follow this pattern and that's why they end up not being as successful. Peter Parker is a well established character with decades of content under his belt, he is Spiderman as much as Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne are Superman and Batman. However the difference is, their race never became their characters. They might be white (kryptonian white LOL), but they also appeal to everyone because of this fact. Characters who only exist to combat the status quo usually only appeal to a niche.

 

I am a brown Indian man and it really does annoy and anger me to see the regressives trying to ruin characters by making it all about their race and skin color.

 

Its like when it comes to anyone who is not a straight white male, that person no longer has any personality or voice. Instead their skin color, sexuality and race suddenly come to the forefront eclipsing their personality and characterizations for no good reason. All because regressives want to feel morally superior.

 

Like you said, many people like Black Panther not because he is a good character, but because its a black superhero. F*ck that sh*t.

 

 

Most people who want a black character or a female character versions of straight white characters are like the girl in the comic. They don't care about Spider Man or James Bond or what have you. Instead they have this identity politics skin color fetish satiated.

 

The most ironic thing is that this sort of thing is done by regressives, many of whom are white. I mean if you hate your race and your skin color, that's your problem. Just don't drag us into it.

 

What was the campaign ? Ah yes, Not Your Shield. Truly, we are not.

 

http://www.cinemable...Gate-67119.html

 

Well, while I'm glad that you'd have no problem with a black Hermione Granger, I disagree that all media based on any past creations must march in lockstep with the exact thing depicted in said creation.

 

I do have a problem with Hermione Granger being black. I just don't really like her to begin with so I don't really speak up about it. But since you asked for it...

 

The decision to make Hermione black is so that they can cause pointless controversies or nontroversies in order to make money.

 

Rowling was actively involved in the process of making all eight of the Harry Potter movies.If she felt that Hermione should be black, why didn't she make her black since the Philosopher's Stone ? Why now ? Because its the current year ?

[vbibbi]

He is described in the books. He isn't a black guy, it's that simple. Why not make him a woman too? Ot trans since it's the topic of the hour?

 

Of course the obvious way around this is to go down the fan theory route and say James Bond is a code name used by multiple agents. I don't actually mind if Idris Elba gets the role, I think he's a fine actor and I don't really care about them changing a characters skin colour.

 

There's no two ways about it though, if a white actor was cast as say, Black Panther, many of the same people praising black James Bond or female Thor would go apesh*t. Rightly or wrongly. It's a double standard, changing white character's ethnicity, male characters to female, straight characters to gay etc is absolutely fine, a positive thing even. The other way around? Not so much.

 

And yes, I know the argument that there are more characters who are straight, white men so changing a few doesn't matter, whereas there aren't many black or gay characters etc so removing one would be a way bigger issue. I just disagree, it's still a double standard.

 

 

Edit- Double quote for some reason.

 

Many other people have already addressed this by now, but I wanted to chime in. So did the books explicitly say that there was only one agent named James Bond, that was his identity prior to entering the service and anyone starring in a Bond film should actually be depicting this one identity from the books? So the entire movie franchise past Connery is doing a disservice to the books because it's not the exact same person depicting the One and True James Bond, especially that blonde fellow Craig. There has never been an explanation as to whether the Bond universe reboots for every new actor, or if it's supposed to be a single universe with multiple agents taking on the code name Bond, or what. This is one of the weakest franchises to argue that changing actors should still physically resemble each other.

 

Quite right, here's an illustration Fleming did of Bond.

 

 

If they were to make Bond black or a woman, the studio would see no further dead presidents from me.

 

So you have not spent any dead presidents on the Craig movies, right? Otherwise you'd be a hypocrite?

 

I never liked Craig as Bond. My favorite is Sean Connery followed by Pierce Brosnan.

 

You didn't really answer the question.

 

However the difference is, their race never became their characters. They might be white (kryptonian white LOL), but they also appeal to everyone because of this fact. Characters who only exist to combat the status quo usually only appeal to a niche.

 

Are you saying that white characters are the only ones who can appeal to all audiences? If so, do you hear how that sounds?

[Xilizhra]

I do have a problem with Hermione Granger being black. I just don't really like her to begin with so I don't really speak up about it. But since you asked for it...

 

The decision to make Hermione black is so that they can cause pointless controversies or nontroversies in order to make money.

 

Rowling was actively involved in the process of making all eight of the Harry Potter movies.If she felt that Hermione should be black, why didn't she make her black since the Philosopher's Stone ? Why now ? Because its the current year ?

So what the creator has or has not said only matters sometimes, it appears.

[Shechinah]

I do have a problem with Hermione Granger being black. I just don't really like her to begin with so I don't really speak up about it. But since you asked for it...
 
The decision to make Hermione black is so that they can cause pointless controversies or nontroversies in order to make money.
 
Rowling was actively involved in the process of making all eight of the Harry Potter movies.If she felt that Hermione should be black, why didn't she make her black since the Philosopher's Stone ? Why now ? Because its the current year ?

 
As far as I know, the reason that the stageshow choose to cast a black actress in the role of Hermione Granger was because they thought the actress was the best of the bunch. The controversy was drummed up by some fans and medias who thought this was going against canon which it was not as J.K. Rowling pointed out. 
 
J.K Rowling did not say she felt Hermione Granger should have been black, she said Hermione Granger was not canonically white. She said that Hermione Granger is canonically brown-eyed, busy haired, and very clever therefore it is not considered to be against canon for her to be black in the stageshow just as it was not against canon for her to be white in the film adaptations. She has no canon race therefore she cannot be miscasted in terms of race.
 
J.K. Rowling; "Canon: brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. White skin was never specified. Rowling loves black Hermione"

[vbibbi]

I am a brown Indian man and it really does annoy and anger me to see the regressives trying to ruin characters by making it all about their race and skin color.

 

Its like when it comes to anyone who is not a straight white male, that person no longer has any personality or voice. Instead their skin color, sexuality and race suddenly come to the forefront eclipsing their personality and characterizations for no good reason. All because regressives want to feel morally superior.

 

Like you said, many people like Black Panther not because he is a good character, but because its a black superhero. F*ck that sh*t.

 

I think people here are arguing that ultimately, race and skin color should not define a character's personality or characterization. And therefor, for a character whose identity is not deeply tied to their racial identity shouldn't matter in how they are depicted in media. Why does Peter Parker being white define his personality? How would his story be any different if he were a different ethnicity?

 

To be honest, I think it's safer for studios to recast popular characters as different ethnicities rather than create a new character. Hollywood is all about recycling old stories now and sequels and franchises. They are not about taking a risk and writing something new. Name recognition is a big thing for audiences. If someone is only going to see one movie this week, are they going to watch Batman v Superman or some comic book character they might not have heard of, like Black Panther?

 

And also honestly, a lot of the time if someone non-white male is billed as the lead actor, audiences assume the film is geared toward a specific crowd. So any film starring a woman is going to be a chick flick, or any film starring a black man is going to be a film intended for black audiences (Tyler Perry movies for example). So those films aren't going to necessarily do as well in the box office as more "broad appeal" of a film starring a white male actor. Critics said Batman v Superman was awful and yet it's doing well in sales. If both Batman and Superman had cast black actors (which is highly unlikely) I can guarantee audiences would have justified not watching the film by citing the bad reviews. It's ingrained in USA culture and not always intentional, but that's how the media works.

 

There is a double standard and it's not fair, but you're also not mentioning the other side of it, automatically favoring white males.

[Panda]

Why is Spidey less important? Peter Parker is a well established character going back to the 40s (was it?). Peter Parker and his origin IS the Spiderman millions have come to love. If you want new versions of him create different characters like they've done with Silk. Don't rewrite the character or his origin though.

You actually just highlighted an issue between White characters and non-white. Black Panther's race shouldn't be why he's a good character. Too many follow this pattern and that's why they end up not being as successful. Peter Parker is a well established character with decades of content under his belt, he is Spiderman as much as Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne are Superman and Batman. However the difference is, their race never became their characters. They might be white (kryptonian white LOL), but they also appeal to everyone because of this fact. Characters who only exist to combat the status quo usually only appeal to a niche.

 

Black Panther can't be white cause he is king of African country. Him being black is important to audience as well since he's America's first black superhero. If he was suddenly white it would be like making Obama movie with white actor playing Obama. I don't think it's wrong that there is characters whose race/ethnicity is noticeable in their story.

 

With Peter Parker and others there is no relation to origin and audience in same way as with Black Panther. However I think majority of people would still prefer character to be similar as in source material, they have this picture of their head about the characters already. That's why I prefer bringing in newer or less known characters than changing one's that are already used lot.

[BioWareMod02]

As this thread has become off-topic it is being closed.