Why are you so salty and aggressive? Just like you want rogues to restock their arrows in the next game, someone wants non-stereotypical portrayal of homosexuals instead.
Because I know I won't get what I want, so I stopped caring and instead played Skyrim for immersion ? That thread is a bit old.
I sort of agree. I am a straight male but I'll explain how I feel about the portrayal of sexuality.
I am a big sports fan, right? Some of you here surely like your sports too and maybe have seen the media reactions when a member of a popular sport publicly outs themselves as bisexual or gay. Its a HUGE deal for the media and that annoys me because I just think "So what? Why do they have to make this a big thing? Can't they just be who they are without being a figurehead for homosexuality in sport?". I suppose what I am saying is it frustrates me how its still such a big deal when somebody is found to actually not be heterosexual. It becomes a defining thing and anybody famous in that position seems to get new fans just because of it, and constantly asked things about it. They are 100% treated differently because of their sexuality - and most of it is a 'positive energy' and good reaction from people trying to be nice but it does become the biggest defining trait about the person, it appears.
Relating that to Dragon Age, I think for anybody who sees the media or watches many tv shows they see that most of the time, being gay becomes a defining trait and it seems mostly like this in the Dragon Age games too. I agree it shouldn't be this way and it would be nice for them to change things with how they write gay characters.
Having said this, I do not support all characters being bisexual like a few posts have said. I think its okay the way it is with having a few straight, gay, bi as well as race-locked romances. The mixture does add a realism to the game for me, I just would prefer, as the OP said, to see a promiscuous straight character, a 'charming prince' gay character or more 'butch' lesbian. This would only serve to add a bit more depth to the game I think. I would be happy if they kept maybe one gay or bisexual character that conformed to stereotype, but for each one that does... have one who doesn't! Probably the best to do it.
She less cuts it rather than hacks at it with a blunt knife from time to time.She cuts her own hair; it make sense given her character. She still fits the definition of a blonde person down to the fair skin and light eyes so yeah, she is a typical blonde.
The people who don't like this approach tend not to either because they find the idea of having 4 bisexuals in a group to be unbelievable (in a fantasy universe, no less), which I find to be a weak argument, or because they see this as somehow turning bisexuality into a "convenience" for the player, which is a more complicated issue that I haven't formulated enough coherent thoughts on to answer right now.
I don't see how your argument is any stronger. You disapprove of people rejecting the "playersexual" approach because an fantasy game doesn't need to apply real world rules. But you forget that even fantasy games need to have some corelations to RL in order to hold believability to the players. I mean, how is it that having magic and monsters in the game is supposed to affect human behaviour? I don't see how.
I don't see how your argument is any stronger. You disapprove of people rejecting the "playersexual" approach because an fantasy game doesn't need to apply real world rules. But you forget that even fantasy games need to have some corelations to RL in order to hold believability to the players. I mean, how is it that having magic and monsters in the game is supposed to affect human behaviour? I don't see how.
And that was my exact argument in the "gay manly" thread. Nothing about wizards and dragons says anything about the likelihood of meeting certain people with a certain sexuality in a social environment. Yea, there are other things more fantastical about DA 2's crew, but finding a bunch of apostates and a magic hating magic elf etc will never seem that strange to us when we're playing a game where magic **** that we can't relate to happens all the time.
Sexuality is however something we all relate to, and we're hypersensitive to it, practically. The more mundane details of any world be it fantasy or not has to at least mostly be relatable for the setting to seem believable. And the fact is bisexuality just isn't that common, so the majority of people, gay or straight, are gonna go "?" When everyone they end up palling around with almost, is bisexual. Mages or no mages.
And that was my exact argument in the "gay manly" thread. Nothing about wizards and dragons says anything about the likelihood of meeting certain people with a certain sexuality in a social environment. Yea, there are other things more fantastical about DA 2's crew, but finding a bunch of apostates and a magic hating magic elf etc will never seem that strange to us when we're playing a game where magic **** that we can't relate to happens all the time.
Sexuality is however something we all relate to, and we're hypersensitive to it, practically. The more mundane details of any world be it fantasy or not has to at least mostly be relatable for the setting to seem believable. And the fact is bisexuality just isn't that common, so the majority of people, gay or straight, are gonna go "?" When everyone they end up palling around with almost, is bisexual. Mages or no mages.
Four people out of nine is not "everyone."
Hey, she might be bi, we don't know! I didn't prove she wasn't. It's in a vacuum right now
Nah, Solas is pretty evil, in my opinion.
Everything Solas does is to save his people. He carries the guilt of having destroyed the world and doomed the elves and he's so set on his path that he can't see a way to stop being Fen'Harel and start being Solas again. What he's doing is terrible but his motives are understandable. Solas approves of every tiny thing that the Inquisitor does to make the world a better place, and Cole sees him as a person worth redeeming. He is the furtherest thing from being an 'evil' character. Morally complex and capable of doing terrible things, yes. Evil? No.
Ok, so since we're on this topic again, and I have been lurking but not commenting on this issue, I'd like to understand.
What, exactly, was the problem with DA2's LIs being all player-sexual? I get that there's an issue of representation and erasure somewhere in there, but realistically, if you want a certain combo represented, you're going to pick one gender for your romances, right? So what does it matter that, in the event that you would later make another playthrough with a different gender the same character would be available for romance? It's basically a different universe, and if you believe that LI belongs to your previous warden/hawke/quizzie, you just ignore the heart icons?
No? Just me? Because it seems to me that making the LI's all potentially more or less bisexual just means everyone can do their preferred canon runs, and you eliminate the endless entitled "But not enough hot women" these forums tend to get AND you get to pick your preferred queer or non-hetero romance path (apologies if terms used are not to your liking, I'm old and french).
Granted, it limits the possibilities in terms of linking sexuality directly to character arc, but, honestly, would that really be a bad thing? The lore already states that nobody gives a **** who sleeps with whom in Thedas, and basically only people trying to win the genetic lottery care about which organ goes where. Wouldn't eliminating this variable just mean we get more meaningful character arcs that don't rely on modern tropes to be interesting? Don't get me wrong, I like Dorian's personal quest and all, but if it means everybody gets what they feel they want to see, regardless of orientation, isn't it just easier to record a few extra lines of dialog and let the player roleplay it the way they want?
Apologies if this offends or whatever. Just feels like we're beating a dead horse in reverse. DA2 comes out and people scream about everybody being player-sexual. DAI comes out and everybody screams about being locked out of their preferred romances.
... Literally just pick one, ffffh. They only ever give us like 8 companions every game. There's only so many possibilities they can realistically do. Can you even imagine the logistical nightmare the devs and writers have to muddle through when designing these romance arcs? Because clearly they appear to be listening to fan criticism somewhat. I'm just... I don't think it's feasible to please everyone here, and I'm starting to think that DA2's approach, while flawed, might have been the simplest way to go about things.
Then everyone could get their Knight in Shining Armor / Hot Babe and roleplay it how ever they like.
Thoughts?
Because it means that people start referring to them as 'playersexual' instead of bisexual or pansexual. Bisexuality is not a convenience - it is a sexuality in itself. It should never be treated as 'well this is easier, everyone romanceable is gonna be bi'. The whole playersexual thing has led to people arguing that characters like Bull, Leliana, Josie and Zev are also playersexual (and using it as an argument of why it's okay to headcanon Leliana as straight.)
Four people out of nine is not "everyone."
In fact, one might say it's 'less than half'.
Interestingly, I read recently that there was a study that focused on millennial sexual identity. I can't remember where it was located, but I believe it was in Europe. And the researchers interviewed hundreds of people in their mid-teens through mid-twenties and about 40% of them identified as 'something other than heterosexual'. Now, take it with a grain of salt (I mean, I didn't even cite my source!), but it certainly supports something that I've been suggesting for a while -- as societal views on "non-heterosexuality" shift towards becoming more accepting, the numbers of self-identifying LGBT individuals will increase. Now, a bisexual man can be in a relationship with a woman and still have no issues identifying as bisexual. That was unheard of 20-30 years ago. Those men would traditionally identify as "straight" and no one would be the wiser. Plus bisexual women. Plus closeted gay men and lesbians. Plus the vast majority of trans people who didn't outwardly 'transition'.
I'm not saying that the actual % of LGBT people is 40%, but I'm thinking it's going to level off in the upcoming decade(s) at a number that is much higher than the 3-10% range that had been reported in the past. At least in societies where it's not considered taboo. Again, the danger of trying to use self-report data on a taboo, generally "invisible" trait.
Everything Solas does is to save his people. He carries the guilt of having destroyed the world and doomed the elves and he's so set on his path that he can't see a way to stop being Fen'Harel and start being Solas again. What he's doing is terrible but his motives are understandable. Solas approves of every tiny thing that the Inquisitor does to make the world a better place, and Cole sees him as a person worth redeeming. He is the furtherest thing from being an 'evil' character. Morally complex and capable of doing terrible things, yes. Evil? No.
Because it means that people start referring to them as 'playersexual' instead of bisexual or pansexual. Bisexuality is not a convenience - it is a sexuality in itself. It should never be treated as 'well this is easier, everyone romanceable is gonna be bi'. The whole playersexual thing has led to people arguing that characters like Bull, Leliana, Josie and Zev are also playersexual (and using it as an argument of why it's okay to headcanon Leliana as straight.)
Solas does it knowing that it would destroy the world and kills many people. If you think his motivation for saving people is good then someone like Illusive Man would be good, too, because his goal is also to save humans.
It's no surprised that the game with the least time development and budget is also the game with an all bi approach (And somehow the prince charming type character is still straight). I don't think Bioware will go all bi again considering the backlash they had with DA2. Still, if they want to do sexuality, I just want them to handle it better. It's not just about making gay characters, but it's also about being aware of what kind of gay characters they make and why did they make that character gay. It's not a coincidence that all the characters taht attribute with masculinity, romantic, and mushy are usually straight. Gay characters often lack the romance. Believe it or not, many gay guys would love to be sweep off their feet as any straight girl. 
His intentions and motives are irrelevant. What matters is the end result, that vast amounts of people are going to die for the resurrection of a people that should have long stayed dead. Pretty damn evil in my book. Evil doesn't have to mean a mustache twirling villain at all. Even with the best of intentions you can still be evil.
Everything Solas does is to save his people. He carries the guilt of having destroyed the world and doomed the elves and he's so set on his path that he can't see a way to stop being Fen'Harel and start being Solas again. What he's doing is terrible but his motives are understandable. Solas approves of every tiny thing that the Inquisitor does to make the world a better place, and Cole sees him as a person worth redeeming. He is the furtherest thing from being an 'evil' character. Morally complex and capable of doing terrible things, yes. Evil? No.
What matters is the end result, that vast amounts of people are going to die for the resurrection of a people that should have long stayed dead.
And who are you to make that judgment?
Four people out of nine is not "everyone."
I didn't count your sibling since they're your sibling, not people you randomly met. Which yes, that's not everyone but:
In fact, one might say it's 'less than half'.
It isn't less than half either, smart asses, It's more than half.
Aveline, Varric, Seb, NOT BI
Anders, Merril, Isabella, Fenris BI
Like I said, your siblings aren't random.
Solas does it knowing that it would destroy the world and kills many people. If you think his motivation for saving people is good then someone like Illusive Man would be good, too, because his goal is also to save humans.
It's no surprised that the game with the least time development and budget is also the game with an all bi approach (And somehow the prince charming type character is still straight). I don't think Bioware will go all bi again considering the backlash they had with DA2. Still, if they want to do sexuality, I just want them to handle it better. It's not just about making gay characters, but it's also about being aware of what kind of gay characters they make and why did they make that character gay. It's not a coincidence that all the characters taht attribute with masculinity, romantic, and mushy are usually straight. Gay characters often lack the romance. Believe it or not, many gay guys would love to be sweep off their feet as any straight girl.
Oh I agree. I'd love for the f/f romance to be a little more like Alistair's. It's why I wanted Cass as an option.
The difference between TIM and Solas is that TIM is a (I'm pretty sure whatever I say is gonna be censored so I'm not going to bother) who lies and manipulates Shepard for his own ends.
AND BEFORE ANYONE SAYS IT:
Don't say it about Solas, I've heard it all before. Trust me, I've played through his romance many, many times. He never manipulates the Inquisitor.
Honestly, I'm fed up with arguing about Solas in every single thread on this website. He is not evil, he's a morally complex villain/fallen hero. That's it. I'm not going to debtate with anyone because I'm fed up with going around and around in circles every single time.
And note that I said "Everyone almost", so cool your jets.
When everyone they end up palling around with almost, is bisexual. Mages or no mages.
I didn't count your sibling since they're your sibling, not people you randomly met. Which yes, that's not everyone but:
It isn't less than half either, smart asses, It's more than half.
Aveline, Varric, Seb, NOT BI
Anders, Merril, Isabella, Fenris BI
Like I said, your siblings aren't random.
Ooh, so we're going by "people we randomly meet" rather than "companions" now? In that case... well, the vast majority of people we randomly meet, we don't know their sexuality, but of the ones whose sexuality we do know, I suspect that the only one whom we know isn't straight is Jethann. And there's still a buttload of straight people.
Oh I agree. I'd love for the f/f romance to be a little more like Alistair's. It's why I wanted Cass as an option.
The difference between TIM and Solas is that TIM is a (I'm pretty sure whatever I say is gonna be censored so I'm not going to bother) who lies and manipulates Shepard for his own ends.
AND BEFORE ANYONE SAYS IT:
Don't say it about Solas, I've heard it all before. Trust me, I've played through his romance many, many times. He never manipulates the Inquisitor.
Honestly, I'm fed up with arguing about Solas in every single thread on this website. He is not evil, he's a morally complex villain/fallen hero. That's it. I'm not going to debtate with anyone because I'm fed up with going around and around in circles every single time.
Knowingly killing millions of people are an evil action, many villains are not actually villains if you consider the goal. I don't see how lying and manipulation is any worse than knowingly committing a genocide. We have to agree to disagree on Solas because this is not really the thread for it.
That's why I want Cullen as an option. This is why this thread exists and why it's important because they need to examine if subconsciously, they give archetype to a certain sexuality due to stereotype or not.
In fact, one might say it's 'less than half'.
Interestingly, I read recently that there was a study that focused on millennial sexual identity. I can't remember where it was located, but I believe it was in Europe. And the researchers interviewed hundreds of people in their mid-teens through mid-twenties and about 40% of them identified as 'something other than heterosexual'. Now, take it with a grain of salt (I mean, I didn't even cite my source!), but it certainly supports something that I've been suggesting for a while -- as societal views on "non-heterosexuality" shift towards becoming more accepting, the numbers of self-identifying LGBT individuals will increase. Now, a bisexual man can be in a relationship with a woman and still have no issues identifying as bisexual. That was unheard of 20-30 years ago. Those men would traditionally identify as "straight" and no one would be the wiser. Plus bisexual women. Plus closeted gay men and lesbians. Plus the vast majority of trans people who didn't outwardly 'transition'.
I'm not saying that the actual % of LGBT people is 40%, but I'm thinking it's going to level off in the upcoming decade(s) at a number that is much higher than the 3-10% range that had been reported in the past. At least in societies where it's not considered taboo. Again, the danger of trying to use self-report data on a taboo, generally "invisible" trait.
Would it be that one? The reserch made by the Yougov UK? If so, it seems to have been done with the Kinsey scale, which could be disregarded/heavily critcized since it was created back in 1948, apparently ignores asexuality and relies on the idea that gender is binary.
Ooh, so we're going by "people we randomly meet" rather than "companions" now? In that case... well, the vast majority of people we randomly meet, we don't know their sexuality, but of the ones whose sexuality we do know, I suspect that the only one whom we know isn't straight is Jethann. And there's still a buttload of straight people.
I've been going by people we randomly meet actually, if you've been reading my posts on the subject in the last threads. And besides, it's common sense if you ask me considering I said people you end up palling around with. A sibling isn't someone you "end up palling around with".
And since it's still apparently not clear, I'm talking about the other companions, not everyone you meet in the game. Which should be obvious given the names I listed.
And who are you to make that judgment?
And who you are to tell me I can't? I can roleplay however I want to. I never once said you couldn't believe as you like. I'm simply explaining my reasoning for why I'm going to kill him and why I personally think he's evil.
I've been going by people we randomly meet actually, if you've been reading my posts on the subject in the last threads. And besides, it's common sense if you ask me considering I said people you end up palling around with. A sibling isn't someone you "end up palling around with".
And since it's still apparently not clear, I'm talking about the other companions, not everyone you meet in the game. Which should be obvious given the names I listed.
Because either way, your standards are completely arbitrary. The population ratio is not unduly unrealistic if we either count the world as a whole or your companions.
And who you are to tell me I can't? I can roleplay however I want to. I never once said you couldn't believe as you like. I'm simply explaining my reasoning for why I'm going to kill him and why I personally think he's evil.
Indeed. And who is he to make the judgement that everyone else should die? I don't think Solas is evil, but I can understand why others see him that way. Evil, no, but selfish yes.
Knowingly killing millions of people are an evil action, many villains are not actually villains if you consider the goal. I don't see how lying and manipulation is any worse than knowingly committing a genocide. We have to agree to disagree on Solas because this is not really the thread for it.
That's why I want Cullen as an option. This is why this thread exists and why it's important because they need to examine if subconsciously, they give archetype to a certain sexuality due to stereotype or not.
The thing about Solas is we see the person he truly is (Solas) and the person he's become to achive his goals (Fen'Harel). What he's doing is evil, there's no argument. But it's also understandable, and he is not an evil character (I just get annoyed when I see that description because, for me, evil means 'beyond redemption' and I don't think he is (I'm not a person that uses terms like 'evil' lightly). And I have Cole on my team for that one). What's the expression? 'Cool motive, still murder', right? Anyway, if you do want to debate this you're more than welcome to come to the Solas thread. As long as you're not being aggressive we welcome all views there.
Because either way, your standards are completely arbitrary. The population ratio is not unduly unrealistic if we either count the world as a whole or your companions.
Clearly not everyone thinks it's arbitrary. It's indeed unrealistic because as I and others said, the population of bisexuals isn't so high that a group of randomly selected people would turn out to mostly be bi. You don't agree, fine, but there's a reason so many people were saying the same thing, and it isn't bigotry despite what so many want to believe.
The thing about Solas is we see the person he truly is (Solas) and the person he's become to achive his goals (Fen'Harel). What he's doing is evil, there's no argument. But it's also understandable, and he is not an evil character (I just get annoyed when I see that description because, for me, evil means 'beyond redemption' and I don't think he is (I'm not a person that uses terms like 'evil' lightly). And I have Cole on my team for that one). What's the expression? 'Cool motive, still murder', right? Anyway, if you do want to debate this you're more than welcome to come to the Solas thread. As long as you're not being aggressive we welcome all views there.
Evil doesn't mean beyond redemption. Many fictional characters proven otherwise, Vegeta was pretty much about destroying and conquering the worlds, but he has become good. As I said, many villains' goal is actually noble, but that doesn't excuse their action. That's just my view on it.
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