79 réponses à ce sujet

[sim-ran]

I'm fine with the swearing but I really dislike how modern everyone sounds in Inquisition. If this was the first game it would be fine but it isn't - DAO set the world of Thedas and I really wish Biiware would treat their crafted world with consistency for once.

But they never do so I should just accept it I guess. Bothers me though.

Just started Descent and the Orzammar dwarfs are totally different in that too.

[LostScout61]

It's been many years since the last of my grandparents died but I can't remember ever hearing one of them swear. I'm sure they knew the words, but decent people didn't use that kind of language.  I think games use swearing too much in an attempt to look edgy and mature, the more you use it the less impact it has.  Then people have to think up new swear words because the whole point is to either cause shock in someone else or to express shock in something unusual.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

It's been many years since the last of my grandparents died but I can't remember ever hearing one of them swear. I'm sure they knew the words, but decent people didn't use that kind of language.  I think games use swearing too much in an attempt to look edgy and mature, the more you use it the less impact it has.  Then people have to think up new swear words because the whole point is to either cause shock in someone else or to express shock in something unusual.

Swearing can be used to add emphasis to emotions or surprise/shock,to state that decent folk won't do that is short sighted as hell and frankly makes me think of you as a self righteous prig. 

[LostScout61]

Swearing can be used to add emphasis to emotions or surprise/shock,to state that decent folk won't do that is short sighted as hell and frankly makes me think of you as a self righteous prig. 

Well your chosen forum handle certainly fits you well.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

Well your chosen forum handle certainly fits you well.

Would you like me to arrange a safespace for you to stage a protest in?

[ModernAcademic]

It's been many years since the last of my grandparents died but I can't remember ever hearing one of them swear. I'm sure they knew the words, but decent people didn't use that kind of language.  I think games use swearing too much in an attempt to look edgy and mature, the more you use it the less impact it has.  Then people have to think up new swear words because the whole point is to either cause shock in someone else or to express shock in something unusual.

 

And usually that attempt to shock by using violence, nudity and foul language is mistaken with appealing to more mature audiences. Most people simply can't see the difference between one and another. I'm glad there are people in the forums that understand this crucial notion.

 

A game that is about the hero's journey is good for teenagers, even if it has sex and swearing in it. Sword wielding and cursing is something any teenager can play. That's DA in a nutshell,

 

But a game that involves managing finite natural resources, creating laws to to regulate trade and the exploitation of the work force, manipulating the economy to keep the value of the national currency stable, negotiating with foreign nations to gain access to a resource or technology while having to choose what advantage to give up in return, those are adult topics.

 

It's no wonder so many adults don't even touch those subjects and why fantasy games don't even bother simulating this aspect of reality. Rather, they project a simplified fictional universe that fakes having a certain complexity about it so as to give the player the illusion he's actually having to think deeper in order to solve a supposedly difficult challenge.

 

Such themes are part of every adult's life and require an understanding about things that go beyond basic Maths and everyday philosophy. So if a game were to truly figure politics, diplomacy and world-changing adventures, as games like DA propose to be, the players would see themselves forced to confront such topics. But that's not something they desire. Not truly, at least.

 

Most people only want entertainment that'll give them immediate satisfaction,even if that fantasy is merely an illusion of what an adult character would be like in a fantasy scenario. No wonder they are satisfied with the level of complexity required to settle the Civil War in Orlais, the resolutions for many of the War Table missions and other "world-changing" decisions.

 

To summarise it with an example: For most people, it's more difficult to understand the reason behind the dollar's devaluation and its sudden recovery the next day than deciding who amongst Gaspard, Celene or Briala will become the best leader for Orlais. 

[BSpud]

Zounds!

[LostScout61]

[snip]

Don't get me wrong.  I enjoy some nudity, prefer it to violence in games, and I am neither offended by nor intimidated by people who swear.  But when it's overused to the point where it becomes a punctuation mark it is boring.  I had uncles who were combat infantrymen in Korea, those who survived didn't go around swearing to prove how tough they were.  They were soft spoken men who had killed real people at close range and they didn't talk like squaddies in Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

 

Real life issues probably wouldn't sell enough copies to keep a game company going, since most of us play to escape the mundane world.

[KaiserShep]

I don't think overuse is any kind of a real concern for ME or DA. All in all, the affair is rather mild. These games get more kick in their violence way more than they do in any harsh language, which is rather infinitesimal against the thousands of lines of spoken dialogue. 

[KaiserShep]

Real life issues probably wouldn't sell enough copies to keep a game company going, since most of us play to escape the mundane world.

 

I guess this depends on the "real life issue" one cares to even adapt to a video game, but I don't think any product meant for consumption would do well if it also captured the tedium that real life problems often get mired in. 

 

I would, however, like to see a game to finally follow-up on Mario's escapades, maybe something like Phoenix Wright, where the consequences of murdering all those goombas finally bites him in the a…..behind.

[straykat]

And usually that attempt to shock by using violence, nudity and foul language is mistaken with appealing to more mature audiences. Most people simply can't see the difference between one and another. I'm glad there are people in the forums that understand this crucial notion.

 

A game that is about the hero's journey is good for teenagers, even if it has sex and swearing in it. Sword wielding and cursing is something any teenager can play. That's DA in a nutshell,

 

But a game that involves managing finite natural resources, creating laws to to regulate trade and the exploitation of the work force, manipulating the economy to keep the value of the national currency stable, negotiating with foreign nations to gain access to a resource or technology while having to choose what advantage to give up in return, those are adult topics.

 

It's no wonder so many adults don't even touch those subjects and why fantasy games don't even bother simulating this aspect of reality. Rather, they project a simplified fictional universe that fakes having a certain complexity about it so as to give the player the illusion he's actually having to think deeper in order to solve a supposedly difficult challenge.

 

Such themes are part of every adult's life and require an understanding about things that go beyond basic Maths and everyday philosophy. So if a game were to truly figure politics, diplomacy and world-changing adventures, as games like DA propose to be, the players would see themselves forced to confront such topics. But that's not something they desire. Not truly, at least.

 

Most people only want entertainment that'll give them immediate satisfaction,even if that fantasy is merely an illusion of what an adult character would be like in a fantasy scenario. No wonder they are satisfied with the level of complexity required to settle the Civil War in Orlais, the resolutions for many of the War Table missions and other "world-changing" decisions.

 

To summarise it with an example: For most people, it's more difficult to understand the reason behind the dollar's devaluation and its sudden recovery the next day than deciding who amongst Gaspard, Celene or Briala will become the best leader for Orlais. 

 

I desire it. Truly. I'm probably getting too old for my own good.

 

I don't need a damn simulator though. Just a more adult approximation of some subjects. And no hero's journey. Some of these can still be made into good "games", without going in childish directions.

[AlanC9]

It's been many years since the last of my grandparents died but I can't remember ever hearing one of them swear. I'm sure they knew the words, but decent people didn't use that kind of language.

Which DAI characters who swear are "decent"? Sera? Iron Bull?

[AlanC9]

It's a bit ridiculous currently. For example, I want one of my Inquisitors to be strict and blunt, so I pick an option like "Let's keep moving" but instead he says something like "I don't have time for this, you fool" and ??? I don't want to be rude to my companions DA please

That's probably a lower-right option. Those are often a bit obnoxious, yeah, just as the center options are ironic if not outright jokes.

[Han Shot First]

It's been many years since the last of my grandparents died but I can't remember ever hearing one of them swear. I'm sure they knew the words, but decent people didn't use that kind of language.  I think games use swearing too much in an attempt to look edgy and mature, the more you use it the less impact it has.  Then people have to think up new swear words because the whole point is to either cause shock in someone else or to express shock in something unusual.

 

There are also good people who swear and bad people who don't. Using language as some sort of determinant whether or not a person is decent seems rather arbitrary. 

[straykat]

There are also good people who swear and bad people who don't. Using language as some sort of determinant whether or not a person is decent seems rather arbitrary. 

 

I think some of the most decent people I've met was when I went to a Catholic school. I got kicked out of my old school because I was genuinely bad.. but funnily enough, the principal was this old Nun with a potty mouth. She had no qualms about saying "sh*t" or things like that. But a good person nonetheless.

[Ghost Gal]

I'm fine with the swearing but I really dislike how modern everyone sounds in Inquisition. If this was the first game it would be fine but it isn't - DAO set the world of Thedas and I really wish Biiware would treat their crafted world with consistency for once.

But they never do so I should just accept it I guess. Bothers me though.

Just started Descent and the Orzammar dwarfs are totally different in that too.

 

You have a point there. The curse words themselves aren't out of place, but the way the characters use it this game is different from previous games, and creates a tone shift. In the first game they used their own words more often ("sod" "Stone-d*mmit!" etc), and the way they spoke was generally a little more formal, so it created this... more immersive atmosphere. This game, they've been using modern curse words far more often in a very modern way; very frequently, casually, and colloquially. 

 

To be honest, it does kind of pull me out of the experience, especially with Varric, Bull, and Sera.

 

I also kind of wish BioWare would be consistent with their own lore, and/or stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.

[straykat]

You have a point there. The curse words themselves aren't out of place, but the way the characters use it this game is different from previous games, and creates a tone shift. In the first game they used their own words more often ("sod" "Stone-d*mmit!" etc), and the way they spoke was generally a little more formal, so it created this... more immersive atmosphere. This game, they've been using modern curse words far more often in a very modern way; very frequently, casually, and colloquially. 

 

To be honest, it does kind of pull me out of the experience, especially with Varric, Bull, and Sera.

 

I also kind of wish BioWare would be consistent with their own lore, and/or stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.

 

I know exactly what you mean.

[Patricia08]

I fixed it for you.

 

Haha very funny it's not all fantasy 

[Patricia08]

I'm fine with the swearing but I really dislike how modern everyone sounds in Inquisition. If this was the first game it would be fine but it isn't - DAO set the world of Thedas and I really wish Biiware would treat their crafted world with consistency for once.

But they never do so I should just accept it I guess. Bothers me though.

Just started Descent and the Orzammar dwarfs are totally different in that too.

 

I agree with you on that and i know it is almost all fantasy but still....Bioware should have done a better job with that. 

[LostScout61]

There are also good people who swear and bad people who don't. Using language as some sort of determinant whether or not a person is decent seems rather arbitrary. 

That's not how people of my grandparents generation thought about the subject.  I wasn't espousing their viewpoint, just trying to explain how they thought. But anyone who thinks swearing is a sign of toughness or maturity is dead wrong.

[straykat]

That's not how people of my grandparents generation thought about the subject.  I wasn't espousing their viewpoint, just trying to explain how they thought. But anyone who thinks swearing is a sign of toughness or maturity is dead wrong.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with toughness either. Where is this coming from?

 

I don't care for excessive use, but I don't understand.

 

And plenty of people in my grandparents generation cussed. He was a WW2 veteran..so he probably ran into it even more. And obviously, there were worse things than simple curse words. Depravity on deeper levels I hope we don't have to go through.

[AlanC9]

You have a point there. The curse words themselves aren't out of place, but the way the characters use it this game is different from previous games, and creates a tone shift. In the first game they used their own words more often ("sod" "Stone-d*mmit!" etc), and the way they spoke was generally a little more formal, so it created this... more immersive atmosphere. This game, they've been using modern curse words far more often in a very modern way; very frequently, casually, and colloquially. 
 
To be honest, it does kind of pull me out of the experience, especially with Varric, Bull, and Sera.
 
I also kind of wish BioWare would be consistent with their own lore, and/or stop trying to fix things that aren't broken.

Consistency aside, I'm not sure if "immersion" is the applicable term here. Cursing in Thedas would sound, to a native of Thedas, the way cursing in our own cultures sound to us. Sera sounds like a chav? Well, that's what she sounds like to people in the setting, including the PC.

[abaris]

First, it's not real. They can basically use every swear word fitting their agenda.

 

Second, I'm not from an english speaking country and the F word doesn't play much of a role here, other than to describe the actual act in a vulgar way. Pretty similar word, actually, you only have to replace the u with an i. here the swearing is much more anal or closely related to anal products. We just celebrated the 500th anniversary of someone saying kiss my a.. in recorded history.

[LostScout61]

I don't think it has anything to do with toughness either. Where is this coming from?

 

I don't care for excessive use, but I don't understand.

 

And plenty of people in my grandparents generation cussed. He was a WW2 veteran..so he probably ran into it even more. And obviously, there were worse things than simple curse words. Depravity on deeper levels I hope we don't have to go through.

It comes from my reading your quote of Undead Han and clicking on your response to him instead of quoting him which is what I should have done.  I probably shouldn't try to post before I've had my morning coffee, my brain moves slower than my fingers.

 

I've said what I wanted to say in this thread, wasn't really intending to continue the discussion.

[PapaCharlie9]

Haha very funny it's not all fantasy 

Fascinating. Can you say more about what exactly is not fantasy in DAI?

And how do you reconcile that with this?