101 réponses à ce sujet

[Catastrophy]

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Think about it.

1.- At which level are you allowed to drop in a SP mission and oppose the trio?

2.- What gear/weapons are you permitted to carry?

3.- What is you level vs the trio?

4.- How much of a skew is combat tilted against the trio?

5.- How many "external combatants" would you allow vs the SP strike force?

5.- Are you happy if the solution is for he computer to give you the same equipment / level as the SP team?

 

Number 5, I think, is the best solution. However, it would become you vs the protagonist and the rest are computer controlled. Is that sufficient to increase the difficulty level? Also, as the injectee, you can become familiar with the maps while the trio will always encounter new ones with every mission.    ... a grave disadvantage for the SP team.

 

NB:

Generating random maps for every mission may sound good but level designs are fixed. It's the only way to test and validate the level.

You drop in as a standard enemy, not geared up with MP equipment. Level is that defined by the difficulty setting nof the SP campaign. I expect this to be a lot harder for the person dropping in. Teamed drop-ins could tip that balance probably very easily.

[Sartoz]

You drop in as a standard enemy, not geared up with MP equipment. Level is that defined by the difficulty setting nof the SP campaign. I expect this to be a lot harder for the person dropping in. Teamed drop-ins could tip that balance probably very easily.

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Ok, but you+enemy outnumber one human and two AI controlled combatants. That automatically makes the standard enemy+you superior, tactically speaking. At the very least your presence negates the human superiority against AI controlled enemies.

 

Also, you have not addressed the map familiarity issue.

 

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

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You love to see a one hit kill?

I suppose you also like to spend waiting 40 sec+ for the inevitable game reload? .... rinse and repeat?

Nah....... bad idea.... really bad idea...

If the enemies can't score one-shot kills, then neither should we be able to.

If they could, though, it would really encourage the use of cover and recon.

[Sartoz]

If the enemies can't score one-shot kills, then neither should we be able to.

If they could, though, it would really encourage the use of cover and recon.

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Not necessarily as we always get outnumbered. So, one shot kills against the enemy grunts is acceptable.

 

Recon is a nice concept but I fear impractical from Bio's pov.... I'm thinking level design pacing slow downs. Or at least it requires tactical thinking which is a "hu?" for the casual players.... I could be wrong. On the other hand, at higher difficulties, Recon can become a life saver..... BUT... no bloody timed missions.

 

Cover is always good. I'm still hoping for a DA:O like AI script for the strike team... set it up and let them go at it... 

[shodiswe]

Difficulty levels usualy means very little besides the time to kill and move on in singleplayer.

 

I tend to pick some kind of medium setting, which is kind of how the developers tend to imagine it should be like in their vision. Easy setting would cheapen it and make it too fast, and the harder setting just prolongs the fight time a little, but usualy beyond whats needed for a good story.

[Seraphim24]

Difficultly often just creates an artificial sense of difficultly in place of a more grounded one, at least in Bioware games I've played.

 

It's sort of like Proud mode in KH if you just turn it into insta-gib it doesn't necessarily feel any more challenging just more cheap and trial-errory.

[Catastrophy]

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Ok, but you+enemy outnumber one human and two AI controlled combatants. That automatically makes the standard enemy+you superior, tactically speaking. At the very least your presence negates the human superiority against AI controlled enemies

You know you can make an AI a superior marksman to the human. Just give them the aimbot quality and it'll surpass the human in hitting. Hopping into a standard enemy should do for balance. Just let the player know that another human has taken over with some cues Harbinger style.

 

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...

 

Also, you have not addressed the map familiarity issue.

What of it? I think it's pretty obvious that replaying the same map over and over will drastically reduce challenge - the unknown battlefield is what makes combat challenging ideally. But don't ask me how to do it - I've yet to see a decent procedural terrain generator that is able to create believable environment with artificial structures.

Maybe start off with a limited set for the zero-g boarding operations in space. I've always wondered how Krogan do the headbutt in a space suit.

[Sylvius the Mad]

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Not necessarily as we always get outnumbered. So, one shot kills against the enemy grunts is acceptable.

That's circular reasoning. We get outnumbered because the enemies are so much weaker than we are.

Recon is a nice concept but I fear impractical from Bio's pov.... I'm thinking level design pacing slow downs. Or at least it requires tactical thinking which is a "hu?" for the casual players.... I could be wrong.

That's what lower difficulty settings are for.

I would love to be able to trivialize combat with recon and planning. Something like Splinter Cell's Mark & Execute feature would also be welcome.

I'm still hoping for a DA:O like AI script for the strike team... set it up and let them go at it...

This would be excellent.

[MrBSN2017]

They really need to make an insanely hard difficulty that requires thought & strategy. I bum rushed everything and felt like I wasn't challenged.

This difficulty needs to be so hard that it takes an experienced player weeks to beat a level. Bring the pain bioware.

[Cyonan]

Somebody calling the enemy weaker than us and a chance to make a post about numbers and mechanics? Let's do this.

 

On the higher difficulties of Mass Effect 3, the enemy is statistically significantly stronger than Shep is. On insanity a basic Cerberus Trooper has 1687.5 while Shep isn't really getting much higher than ~850 health/shields. Even Cerberus' weakest unit can match us for total hit points and the only enemy with less is the Husk at 928. I guess Swarmers have like 5 HP if you want to count that.

 

So surely the player can put out more damage then? Not exactly. The infamous Marauder can do 93.8 damage per hit on insanity, which is about 2.5x as strong as a Phaeston X that the player wields coming in at 37.2 damage. Even the Mattock X, one of our strongest non DLC Assault Rifles comes in at 95.2 damage per hit and fires slower than the Phaeston does. The Centurion that wields the Mattock? 245 per hit.

 

Most enemies in the game get to enjoy that damage disparity, except for the Geth Hunter. The Geth Plasma Shotgun does slightly less damage on insanity than our rank 1 version. Keep in mind the stats I'm giving for the PC are max level stuff, which requires NG+ to even get in the case of guns. At the start of a game, Shep is much weaker than this.

 

So what does this mean for how tough enemies are? Not much honestly. Give me Shep with a Mattock and I can take out a squad of 8 Centurions with ease, even completely ignoring powers and having no passives. This happens because I'm a vastly superior marksman to the AI and because I know how to exploit things like right hand advantage so I can shoot them while they can't hit me.

 

but Mass Effect is a game with powers, so what if we gave enemies powers? Okay, I actually like that idea but it's not going to solve the problem. In the Citadel DLC they gave us the option to play Mirror Match in the arena. For those who haven't played it it consists of three waves: Wave 1 is a Soldier, Engineer, and Adept. Wave 2 is a Vanguard, Infiltrator, and Sentinel. Wave 3 is all 6 at once. You can also turn on penalties for the player which include: Player shields are destroyed in 1 hit, no medi-gel, no ammo pick-ups, stronger enemy shields, and higher enemy damage.

 

Yeah... I managed to best that on insanity with no teammates and every debuff turned on.

 

I've also tried in MP giving the enemy aimbot levels of accuracy and it pretty much just turned the game into something that ultimately feels like the enemy is just cheating and the average player isn't going to enjoy playing. I don't see that as good game design, as most of us will just turn to cheese strategies like Nova + Biotic Charge spam for infinite damage immunity.

 

Mass Effect when played in real time is a skill based game, which means that the best way to provide a challenging yet enjoyable gameplay experience typically doesn't involve making the enemy statistically match us in every way.

[NKnight7]

Normal for the first playthrough, than a harder difficulty once I'm more used to the controls and gameplay. That's usually what I do for most games. Maybe enemies can be smarter on the harder difficulties, requiring a little more strategy from the player to beat them.

[KaiserShep]

That's circular reasoning. We get outnumbered because the enemies are so much weaker than we are.
That's what lower difficulty settings are for.

 

I feel like it's also for dramatic effect. Like, take the darkspawn horde. If we only fought numbers that equaled our group, it would seem pretty lame. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I feel like it's also for dramatic effect. Like, take the darkspawn horde. If we only fought numbers that equaled our group, it would seem pretty lame.

And I'll concede that. Weaker enemies should exist in greater numbers, but the rules should apply equally. If our characters are humans, and we fight humans, then those humans shoild be bound by the same rules. If there need to be lots of those humans, then makes them a lower level.

A good test of mechanical symmetry is friendly fire. Friendly fire should be just as lethal to our opponents as it is to us. DA2 and DAI both fail this test, though in very different ways.

[Quarian Master Race]

Difficultly often just creates an artificial sense of difficultly in place of a more grounded one, at least in Bioware games I've played.

 

It's sort of like Proud mode in KH if you just turn it into insta-gib it doesn't necessarily feel any more challenging just more cheap and trial-errory.

See, I feel the opposite about the ME series. The middle and lower difficulties are made artificially easy. The codex states that combat hardsuits equipped with shields (or barriers for biotics) are standard for all combatants, and indeed the player and squadmates follow this rule, yet only Hardcore/Insanity has all enemies equipped with shields, and in ME3 even that isn't the case (part of the reason why it's so easy even on insanity is all the cannon fodder health mooks).

[10K]

I'd just love to see Ai be able to utilize the same abilities the player can. I hate going up against an enemy who's labeled Vanguard but could not charge. That was annoying.

[Laughing_Man]

I'd just love to see Ai be able to utilize the same abilities the player can. I hate going up against an enemy who's labeled Vanguard but could not charge was. That was annoying.

 

In a way, that was why I enjoyed the Tela Vasir and the Clone boss fights so much. They actually used interesting abilities and tactics that somewhat mirrored yours.

[10K]

In a way, that was why I enjoyed the Tela Vasir and the Clone boss fights so much. They actually used interesting abilities and tactics that somewhat mirrored yours.

Yes, that's why I feel like those two fights were the only challenging fights in the entire series. If anyone here is looking for a good challenge in ME3 go to the combat area face your clones solo on insanity, the fight is pretty fun.

[SKAR]

A difficulty that actually forces you to be tactical instead of just spamming powers harder and shooting more bullets would be great. Playing the Vanguard like most people play the Vanguard should be hard as **** on the higher difficulties, not easy.

that's what she said.

[Dukemon]

Yes, that's why I feel like those two fights were the only challenging fights in the entire series. If anyone here is looking for a good challenge in ME3 go to the combat area face your clones solo on insanity, the fight is pretty fun.

That is the problem in Inquisition. Unfortunately, the AI has his own combat gameplay and to read the immunity/weaknesses/Strengthen it felt like to read a Shopping List. In DAO is was best balanced. The enemies even on easy have used the spell/talent book from the player. That was fun.

[capn233]

No need to add "Nightmare," that is a DA difficulty.  The ME version is "Insanity."

 

Simply stated, the campaign on Insanity needs to be harder than ME3.  They can accomplish this via reworking combos, bringing back protections, and in general increasing the number of enemies you fight in each encounter and in the game as a whole.

[IST]

Exactly, nightmare setting. 

 

Imagine the missile battery mission if you actually had to use cover and there wasn't a room full of ammo you could duck into. 

....there's a room full of ammo to duck into on that part of the fight?

 

I feel robbed after my 12 playthroughs on Insanity lol.

[SofaJockey]

Any SP difficulty would become accessible after hundreds of hours of multiplayer...

I found ME3 single player was as a Sunday stroll after MP Gold/Platinum.

[ZipZap2000]

....there's a room full of ammo to duck into on that part of the fight?

I feel robbed after my 12 playthroughs on Insanity lol.

Yes, those ammo boxes and a heavy weapon. Which I didn't even know was there until recently.

[Sylvius the Mad]

They could make one difficulty setting have symmetrical mechanics and call it "Fair".

Prepare to get one-shot

[Sartoz]

You know you can make an AI a superior marksman to the human. Just give them the aimbot quality and it'll surpass the human in hitting. Hopping into a standard enemy should do for balance. Just let the player know that another human has taken over with some cues Harbinger style.

 

What of it? I think it's pretty obvious that replaying the same map over and over will drastically reduce challenge - the unknown battlefield is what makes combat challenging ideally. But don't ask me how to do it - I've yet to see a decent procedural terrain generator that is able to create believable environment with artificial structures.

Maybe start off with a limited set for the zero-g boarding operations in space. I've always wondered how Krogan do the headbutt in a space suit.

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Map wise you will enter a situation of a pro vs a greenhorn. The challenge is far greater for the "map-newbie" since the opponent is a map pro. I'm not sure how one can balance this or whether you want to.   However, I'm in favour of making it optional for the player to accept drop-ins. Then, as you say, the newbie has accepted the "challenge" and pray the smart auto saves are working.