I can't find a way to justify it. I haven't done it in all these years I've owned the game. I ended up cheating and got the Spec Book in Awakenings.
What's funny is I notice many people take the Dark Ritual at the end. Which, in my view, isn't all that different. You're letting another kid get possessed... only from birth. Why that's easier, I don't know.
And your own son, depending on the Warden.
True..
If it wasn't already disturbing enough.
I can't find a way to justify it. I haven't done it in all these years I've owned the game. I ended up cheating and got the Spec Book in Awakenings.
What's funny is I notice many people take the Dark Ritual at the end. Which, in my view, isn't all that different. You're letting another kid get possessed... only from birth. Why that's easier, I don't know.
The justification might not have a lot of ground to stand upon, but:
1. Maybe the talents it gives you will prove vital in defeating Mr. Archie Demon. You are after all, two greenhorns and a rag tag group about to face the greatest evil in the world (at the moment.) Every help is appreciated. Maybe that blizzard spell will be the thing that will turn the tide in the final battle and you are a few talent points short of acquiring it?
2. Blood magic is the most evil of spell schools, but also seen as the most powerful. And that power might be needed to save the world. If you sacrificed Isolde you probably see the benefits of controlling such powerful magics. And if you met Avernius you might believe that your tainted blood could accomplish even greater deeds.
3. Maybe knocking boots with a desire demon is just the inspiration you need to open a can of whoop-butt on the darkspawn. You never know. The afterglow is a powerful force.
4. Maybe you are just a few approval points short of Sten strangling you in your sleep. You are a dainty mage and your neck cannot withstand such punishment. It's for the greater good.
5. Or maybe you realized that you just aren't strong enough to face the Desire Demon in combat. You ran out of health poultices in the last fight and you have no healing spells. You can't just leave the Fade to restock. The violent route will end up killing you and you are the glue that keeps the group together. Without you Alistair will have to lead and he'll end up making the group face the Archdemon without any pants. You make the deal now, get some advantage over the Archdemon and come out of this alive. It's for the greater good. (And flawed heroes are the best heroes.)
For all of these. Connor is just one poor casualty to save the rest of the world. And maybe he'll be strong enough to round house kick the demon on his own when he gets older. Maybe the Circle can help him create some defenses against the demon. It will build up his personality.
Or maybe the demon will just forget about him. Very unlikely, but still, you gotta hold onto that hope.
Maybe not the best justifications, but I feel they can work if you are roleplaying what your character was thinking. And I'm a sucker for having my characters have some sort of a dark side to them.
And interesting point on the Dark Ritual.
"No one person in Thedas can defeat the blight. If that was the case, sending you two would be quite the jest." 
It's not about power imo. But I respect that you thought it through.
1. He's very real danger and the limits of his control on the Desire Demon are unknown.
2. It's possible he'd kill everyone else in Eamon's house and escape if the Warden leaves to get the Circle's help.
3. Abominations must die, no questions asked.
Personally, i took into account the whole situation and also the mind state of my Warden at the time.
My guy had turned to blood magic to better protect people, and yet found himself unable to save everyone at Redcliffe, so this put him in a very angry/focused state of mind.
Then he found out that Jowan, his friend, started the whole mess, which made him feel even angrier (and guilty as hell since Jowan managed to escape thanks to his help)
Add to that that in my headcanon Mouse is still screwing with his head so he unconsciously thinks of going to beg at the Circle for help as below him (especially because he was wrong and they were right about Jowan). So even if the time of the travel wasn't an issue, which it is because, as i said, he felt guilty as hell for the people he couldn't save, the only remaning option was to kill Connor, which he did
Quite the awesome playthrough, really, even started feeling some "camaraderie" in regards of Isolde and some genuine dislike towards Eamon (since he didn't show any sadness/anger over his son's death, which my Warden would have actually wholeheartedly embraced since he hated himself for killing a kid, and intsead proposed to name him Champion of Redcliffe)
Personally, i took into account the whole situation and also the mind state of my Warden at the time.
My guy had turned to blood magic to better protect people, and yet found himself unable to save everyone at Redcliffe, so this put him in a very angry/focused state of mind.
Then he found out that Jowan, his friend, started the whole mess, which made him feel even angrier (and guilty as hell since Jowan managed to escape thanks to his help)
Add to that that in my headcanon Mouse is still screwing with his head so he unconsciously thinks of going to beg at the Circle for help as below him (especially because he was wrong and they were right about Jowan). So even if the time of the travel wasn't an issue, which it is because, as i said, he felt guilty as hell for the people he couldn't save, the only remaning option was to kill Connor, which he did
Quite the awesome playthrough, really, even started feeling some "camaraderie" in regards of Isolde and some genuine dislike towards Eamon (since he didn't show any sadness/anger over his son's death, which my Warden would have actually wholeheartedly embraced since he hated himself for killing a kid, and intsead proposed to name him Champion of Redcliffe)
I think I've read one of your posts before about Mouse. I love it. 
Most people are hypocrites because on that stance their life was at stake so hardly i care when they present their logic for choices.What's funny is I notice many people take the Dark Ritual at the end. Which, in my view, isn't all that different. You're letting another kid get possessed... only from birth. Why that's easier, I don't know.
My Warden Mahariel did not want to kill Connor but she thought it might be the only option that she found she could make since the Circles were a journey away and in addition, she'd heard they had trouble as well. She was worried that the demon would resurface in the mean time and do harm especially towards the citizens of Redcliffe. Because of this, she killed Connor and though she saw it as necessary, she still saw and felt the tragedy of it.
It's not metagame but strategyI blame Isolde entirely for what happened at Redcliffe. She couldn't have done more damage if she'd been working with Loghain.
And sometimes there isn't. I don't find the choice particularly realistis, in all honesty. At least with the Dalish/Werewolf situation the option to save everyone is right there, readily accessible and known to everyone involved. At Redcliffe you're just rolling the dice.
Personally, I considering it to be metagaming to go to the Circle for aid, particularly if you haven't already been there(Redcliffe is usually my second stop post-Ostagar, I go there right after I get Shale). As the player I know it'll be fine, but there's no reason for the warden to think that a demon powerful enough to control so many people without even physically manifesting is going to be contained by an untrustworthy bloodmage(who the warden may have been betrayed by), a handful of knights, and an uncle who's already been controlled by it once.
And that's assuming Isolde doesn't manage to run off with it thinking to protect her son again. To my mind(and invariably that of my Wardens) she's even less trustworthy than Jowan. And even my Mage Wardens think that.
And then there's the question of whether or not the Circle would even help. Irving couldn't send a party of mages out without the Templars knowing, and Greagoir might simply order the child killed anyway. And if your character's a mage and you've not been to the Circle yet, that's a very likely assumption to make. And while Irving might like to find little ways of hindering Greagoir, he's not going to defend a possessed child and risk getting the entire Circle annulled as a result.
In fact my warden refused that on this very premise.And your own son, depending on the Warden.
I think I've read one of your posts before about Mouse. I love it.
Thanks That and other little details made that Warden really fun to RP, especially in Awakening
It's not metagame but strategy
-first i do the circle quest as the first one because it make the most sense,there are rumors of demons in the tower and the problem is more urgent than all the others quests,the demons there need to be defeated quickly before that Uldred will create more abominations.
-Second it does not make sense from a timeline point of view do the Redclieffe quest so quickly.
~Third most of the undead are gone and the demon is not strong enough to defeat the knights.
The circle ruote is strategy not metagame.
Your critic is based upon plenty of mental constructs about Isolde fears(she is watched by the knights and is not an issue) or an overestimation of the demon which no longer has minions.
Thus kill Connor is unecessary and i don't see it as the better option because it is not necessary and also i have no reason to make my warden into a child murderer.
On the contrary, Redcliffe is the most logical choice for the first destination. Arl Eamon is the only person in Ferelden who can bring political support to the Wardens, and pressure against Loghain. He also has a force that was not involved in the fighting at Ostagar, making him a far more powerful ally than anyone else. The sooner Loghain's claim of the Grey Warden's treachery is challenged, along with Loghain himself, the better the Warden's chances.
Also, where did the rumours of demons at the Circle come from? The Templars have taken control of the only means of reaching the Circle, locked down the tower, and not even the guy who operated the boat knows what's going on. If there are rumours about what's happening, there really shouldn't be. And the underlined isn't known until the Warden gets there, and acting on information that the character cannot possibly have is metagaming. This undermines the very basis of your argument.
And we know absolutely that it can't simply raise the dead again? Also, remember the fight when the Warden first meets Connor? When the demon controls several guards and Bann Teagan into attacking the Warden and party? What's preventing it doing so again? And we have nothing to suggest that it can't defeat the knights. I've had games where only Ser Perth survived to that point, so this point counts for nothing.
I blame the Chantry for creating such a complicated situation to begin with.
Don't get me wrong. I like the Chantry. I just think this needs to change a bit. Templars and the Circle are partly to blame for the "mage problem". It causes unnecessary stress. Half of the mage issues woudn't arise in the first place, if not for the severity of it all. And family members wouldn't fear it so much if they weren't scared out of their pants. And ripping apart families is never cool either. If it is, we all might as well be like the Qunari and kill off any sense of actual bonding at all. Lets all be loveless drones and follow rules and be constantly fearful of demons, every time magic gets mentioned.
And it isn't like Andraste said any of it, other than the "mages shouldn't rule" bit. Somehow Thedas jumped to extreme conclusions about that.
/rant
Fair enough, but I blame the mother (Isolde) who leaves her child vulnerable to demons (untrained) and sacrifices everyone else for said child. This child will be the one blamed and live with the guilt for the rest of their lives while Mummy can say the Evil Blood Mage is to blame I just wanted to keep my son. I say bull! she just didn't want to lose the Arldom why else would she be so defensive seeing Alistair unless she thought HE would inherit after HER son was sent to the Tower. I also blame the Chantry for fear mongering too, but Isolde has the greater share of the blame and yet no consequences for her actions. ( She even moves away from Redcliffe so she doesn't have to face the condemnation of the Villagers she betrayed.)
Fair enough, but I blame the mother (Isolde) who leaves her child vulnerable to demons (untrained) and sacrifices everyone else for said child. This child will be the one blamed and live with the guilt for the rest of their lives while Mummy can say the Evil Blood Mage is to blame I just wanted to keep my son. I say bull! she just didn't want to lose the Arldom why else would she be so defensive seeing Alistair unless she thought HE would inherit after HER son was sent to the Tower. I also blame the Chantry for fear mongering too, but Isolde has the greater share of the blame and yet no consequences for her actions. ( She even moves away from Redcliffe so she doesn't have to face the condemnation of the Villagers she betrayed.)
You're right that she doesn't seem to be concerned about the consequences. But I still see it as an accident (that and she's probably not all that bright, I think). It's a mother's love being twisted into something sinister. I mean, out of all the main "problem" characters, she's pretty innocent. Like Zathrian was pro-active in his selfishness, for example.
On the contrary, Redcliffe is the most logical choice for the first destination. Arl Eamon is the only person in Ferelden who can bring political support to the Wardens, and pressure against Loghain.
It doesn't make sense with the timeline a Warden who is going to Redcliffe as the first destination is disrupting the timeline because it require at least 1 month for the plot of Redcliffe to happen, is not logical because it does not respect the flow of time.
3. Abominations must die, no questions asked.
If that is true why don't you leave into non- existence the OGB?
It doesn't make sense with the timeline a Warden who is going to Redcliffe as the first destination is disrupting the timeline because it require at least 1 month for the plot of Redcliffe to happen, is not logical because it does not respect the flow of time.
METAGAMING!
The Warden doesn't think to themself "I can't go to Redcliffe yet, it's too soon after Ostagar so my presence disrupts the timeline" because the Warden can't see things from this perspective. Have you officially abandoned your stance of
It's not metagame but strategy
because if your only arguments for going to the Circle before Redcliffe are based on information that the Warden can't have at the time they make the decision(or at all, with regards to the timeline), then your position is based entirely upon metagaming.
METAGAMING!
The Warden doesn't think to themself "I can't go to Redcliffe yet, it's too soon after Ostagar so my presence disrupts the timeline" because the Warden can't see things from this perspective. Have you officially abandoned your stance of
because if your only arguments for going to the Circle before Redcliffe are based on information that the Warden can't have at the time they make the decision(or at all, with regards to the timeline), then your position is based entirely upon metagaming.
The narrative timeline has nothing to do with metagame because they are two separated concepts whom one concern the consistency of the game itself.
The Circle option doesn't require metagaming either. Your Warden doesn't *know* that things will work out, but he can believe it is worth the risk.
If you take away Circle aid (and that is justifiable, given you may have already annulled the Circle, or you may RP not knowing that the demon won't possess Connor again after you leave) then blood magic is the only possible way to save him.
At that point it all comes down to whether you trust blood magic to actually fix this mess. Or perhaps make things worse. Or Heck, maybe Jowan will screw things up yet again.
If you take away Circle aid (and that is justifiable, given you may have already annulled the Circle, or you may RP not knowing that the demon won't possess Connor again after you leave) then blood magic is the only possible way to save him.
You didn't even understood my point and continued to throw at me the word metagame for no plausible reasons when metagame has nothing to do with the concept of the flow of time.
The narrative timeline has nothing to do with metagame because they are two separated concepts whom one concern the consistency of the game itself.
The plot of Redcliffe can't happen as the first one for timeline reasons you can go to Redcliffe as the first location and realistically there should have not been any problem yet.
You argued that going to the Circle first is a strategic decision, not a metagaming one, and further asserted that it makes the most sense. I presented a case for Redcliffe as a logical first destination, and the only argument you presented in response is that it does not fit the narrative timeline.
The problem is, the title of the thread specifies without metagaming, but that's exactly what your argument is. Only the player can make the assessment that Redcliffe doesn't fit that point in the narrative, the Warden cannot do so with the information presented. On a first run of the game, there is no possible way that a player could know that it is too early to go to Redcliffe, that assessment can only be made on subsequent runs, which is what makes it metagaming.
Go to the circle and leave Connor to the knights is strategy not Metagame and is a better route than simply kill him due to lack of strategy.
Is not really a surprise that Connor did nothing in the meantime just that he did nothing in 9 years if the demon remained into him,becasue
if the warden bothered to listen Connor when he described how that demon act,the less it is disturbed the less the demon interfere which means that Isolde was the one who instigated the demon to act every single time she wanted to speak with Connor.
You keep talking about strategy but you've presented nothing to support that. The demon has just had someone fight there way into its castle and trash its minions, you don't think that counts as interfering or instigating? You think the demon is going to simply sit there and wait for the Warden to come back and finish it off? Isolde was cooperating with it, and it still tried to destroy the village, and that was just the start. Once the warden arrives it's got a direct threat to deal with, one that has given it time to prepare itself for another fight. At this point the demon is directly under threat from the Warden, and to think it's not going to attempt to defend itself is madness.
And you still haven't addressed any of these, by the way:
And we know absolutely that it can't simply raise the dead again? Also, remember the fight when the Warden first meets Connor? When the demon controls several guards and Bann Teagan into attacking the Warden and party? What's preventing it doing so again? And we have nothing to suggest that it can't defeat the knights. I've had games where only Ser Perth survived to that point, so this point counts for nothing.
Right now your "strategy" is either metagaming or blind optimism, because it means turning your back on a definite threat and giving it time to act. Particularly if you haven't been to the Circle already.
As for killing Connor, there are a couple of benefits to it. It takes out the evil in a quick and semi clean manner. You face the evil on your ground, with a group, instead of sending a mage into the demons lair, alone.
You argued that going to the Circle first is a strategic decision, not a metagaming one, and further asserted that it makes the most sense. I presented a case for Redcliffe as a logical first destination, and the only argument you presented in response is that it does not fit the narrative timeline.
The problem is, the title of the thread specifies without metagaming, but that's exactly what your argument is. Only the player can make the assessment that Redcliffe doesn't fit that point in the narrative, the Warden cannot do so with the information presented. On a first run of the game, there is no possible way that a player could know that it is too early to go to Redcliffe, that assessment can only be made on subsequent runs, which is what makes it metagaming.
You keep talking about strategy but you've presented nothing to support that. The demon has just had someone fight there way into its castle and trash its minions, you don't think that counts as interfering or instigating? You think the demon is going to simply sit there and wait for the Warden to come back and finish it off? Isolde was cooperating with it, and it still tried to destroy the village, and that was just the start. Once the warden arrives it's got a direct threat to deal with, one that has given it time to prepare itself for another fight. At this point the demon is directly under threat from the Warden, and to think it's not going to attempt to defend itself is madness.
And you still haven't addressed any of these, by the way:
Right now your "strategy" is either metagaming or blind optimism, because it means turning your back on a definite threat and giving it time to act. Particularly if you haven't been to the Circle already.
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