14 réponses à ce sujet

[Monk]

Hey all,

     For those having to rock Boot Camp/Parallels/etc. for your gaming pleasures, who'd want to see MEA on Mac OS X native (Mavericks on up) or at least WINE'd, as DAO and DAII were?

[Fogg]

My first and foremost concern is that the 'normal' PC version won't be a bad console port

[ArabianIGoggles]

No point wasting resources on those platforms.  Nobody uses Linux or Mac for gaming.

[rocklikeafool]

LOL...why bother to do that? They won't get a valid return on their investment for developing on those platforms.

[KaiserShep]

I'd like to see OSX get some attention (especially since it's the only OS I use at home). It's common enough to make a sizable base. The question is whether or not the average Mac user is inclined to use their machine for that, especially since it's their laptops that are more common, with the rest being the mini, iMac and really expensive Mac Pro.

[Dar'Nara]

I wouldnt mind it being on OS X, would save a few reboots into BootCamp to play it but overall im not bothered. Just as long as its not a really bad console port

[Biotic Apostate]

Since DAI/Frostbite 3 had a Mantle mode, and Mantle got folded into Vulkan, it would technically be possible to port MEA to Linux. But OS X is using Metal (similar API to DirectX 12 and Vulkan), and it would require a lot of additional work. Both are pretty improbable, because people dual boot/use boot camp for gaming.

 

Either way, because Windows graphics drivers are far better than OS X and Linux ones, you'll get far better performance there. The best option is just to use boot camp if you're on mac.

[Monk]

I'd like to see OSX get some attention (especially since it's the only OS I use at home). It's common enough to make a sizable base. The question is whether or not the average Mac user is inclined to use their machine for that, especially since it's their laptops that are more common, with the rest being the mini, iMac and really expensive Mac Pro.

 

> With gaming becoming more "normalized", as twitchy as this makes me, most machines now are used for either gaming in the quick (casual gaming) or more hard core gaming (Battlefield, WoW, etc.) Will everyone of these players want to play MAE, not right away maybe but a vast majority of the creative sorts, who pay for the Thunderbolt Displays and Mac Pros, will. And since DLC is a business in its own right, this is practically guaranteed additional revenue, as who doesn't like extras for chump change.

 

Regards to the machines themselves, we're luckily discussing a shooter RPG, not the next gen Battlefield. The video card won't necessarily have to be top-notch. It'll mainly be up to the amount of RAM and storage available, something which is easily remedied at their local Apple Store, Best Buy or preferred online retailer.

 

 

 

 

Since DAI/Frostbite 3 had a Mantle mode, and Mantle got folded into Vulkan, it would technically be possible to port MEA to Linux. But OS X is using Metal (similar API to DirectX 12 and Vulkan), and it would require a lot of additional work. Both are pretty improbable, because people dual boot/use boot camp for gaming.

 

Either way, because Windows graphics drivers are far better than OS X and Linux ones, you'll get far better performance there. The best option is just to use boot camp if you're on mac.

 

 

> Supposedly EA was looking for Mac developers before DAI's release. While DAI wasn't been released for Mac (yet), it doesn't mean they don't have the ability to port Frostbite to OS X. Likely, with the news of Metal being on target for El Capitan (10.11), the porting process was delayed in being updated. Considering more and more games are being enfolded into Frostbite, it seems inevitable that Sims will be released side-by-side with future DA/MA titles. And why not have the future be now(ish)?

 

Regards to quality, unless i read through a HardwarePal article too briskly, quality difference is neglible between Khronos and MS offerings.

[Biotic Apostate]

Supposedly EA was looking for Mac developers before DAI's release. While DAI wasn't been released for Mac (yet), it doesn't mean they don't have the ability to port Frostbite to OS X. Likely, with the news of Metal being on target for El Capitan (10.11), the porting process was delayed in being updated. Considering more and more games are being enfolded into Frostbite, it seems inevitable that Sims will be released side-by-side with future DA/MA titles. And why not have the future be now(ish)?

 

Regards to quality, unless i read through a HardwarePal article too briskly, quality difference is neglible between Khronos and MS offerings.

EA already decided on using a separate engine for their sports games, it wouldn't be surprising if they won't do a Frostbite Sims game.

 

I don't think Metal had anything to do with them deciding not to port it (especially since Metal was announced 7 months after DAI shipped). Most games that do come to Mac use Cider, a Wine based wrapper that makes Windows games run on Mac with less work than a real port. But that method is not well optimised and the games I've tested (DA2, Sims 3, Heroes V, Prince of Persia) all have a 2 times higher framerate on Windows (on the same computer, of course). Since DAI is pretty demanding (more so than their previous titles), and MEA will have probably even higher requirements, since they don't have to support previous gen consoles, most Macs will have a problem running the game.

 

BW could do a version running on Metal, but considering the small marketshare, which is further cut down by required OS version (10.11 or higher), Metal support (Macs made in 2012 or newer), and supported minimum specs (probably some of the discrete cards and Iris 5200), it does not make sense financially to do it. I'm saying this as someone who loves OS X - get a Windows partition for gaming.

 

And again, Vulkan support is probably already in place in Frostbite (since it's basically Mantle+). But Apple opted to use their own API (and for now they do not support Vulkan), which makes it even less probable BW will do an OS X port.

[Monk]

Taking this one at a time, EA might actually be in the process of converting their sport games to Frostbite (Fb). Visiting the Fb Wikipedia page shows "Rory McIlroy PGA Tour". While the game might have only been a testbed, it is more efficient to work with one game engine, especially if the one's capable of handling multiple game types as Fb has clearly shown. If the exponential adoption rate continues (1, 4, 4, 14 games for Fb 1, 1.5, 2, 3), Sims will likely be included in the next cycle, with a prediction of at least 16 games during the next Fb iteration.

 

Regards to Metal having an affect on development for the OS X/Linus platform, if we go by release dates, it was ten months between the products (DAI [DX12/Mantel] vs OS 10.11 El Capitan [Metal]). Truth of the matter, on the other hand, is software, especially that which has to be developed from the ground up, takes years to build from the ground up. So, while the timeline was almost perfect for a near simultaneous release with OS X 10.10 Yosemite – released a month earlier than DAI – Metal would have already been a factor for BioWare per developer relations between BioWare and Apple.

 

Why would BioWare go to the trouble? Look at Blizzard. Since forever, they've support Mac, even with their great success story, WoW. How? Probably because all their games run on the same engine (Warcraft, Diablo, StarCraft, Hearthstone, …). Another success in BW's corner, Kotor/Kotor2 has shown to have an influential audience in the *nix world. So much in fact, Kotor2 got a major update, which included OS X and Linux.

 

Rolling back some, the point of the thread was to see who was interested in a OS X/Linux port. Will it happen for sure… ehh, difficult to say. BioWare's support for Mac has fallen over the years. At the same time, however, popular games are occasionally tested and with Mac developers being hired during DAI's timeline, MAE has a chance to see the light of Mac. It's just up to us fans to make it known. Because, while using a Windows boot partition works for some, being able to play games on our preferred platform would be awesome.

[Biotic Apostate]

I don't think Sims is headed for FB soon. They care about bringing the game to as many computers as possible. S4 (released in 2014) runs on Windows XP, Core 2 Duo, and Nvidia 6600GT. They don't care about cutting edge, or realistic graphics, they just iterate on what they already build. Frostbite meanwhile is 64-bit only and they don't support old hardware.

 

Not to mention that while FB could support something like Sims, they'd have to build all of their functionality from scratch. When BW transitioned to Frostbite, they had to build first the conversation system, equipment, approval, and so on, because they didn't exist in FB. The Andromeda team will have a little less work, because the driving mechanic is already implemented by the NFS team and the shooting mechanic was made by DICE themselves. But Sims? They'd have to recreate everything, because it's a very specific game, and no other like it were done under FB.

 

While many developers know about technologies earlier (BW is probably already testing MEA on the rumoured PS4K), I doubt BW has such relations with Apple.

 

Blizzard is a curious example, because they supported Mac for so long, and now they have no intention of bringing Overwatch to OS X. The fact that they would skip Mac is rather concerning.

 

It would be nice to have a Mac version, but in the end, Metal is still missing some features that DX12/Vulkan have, and unless Apple really commits to gaming during the next WWDC, I don't see Mac gaming heading anywhere.

[Monk]

 

 

I don't think Sims is headed for FB soon. They care about bringing the game to as many computers as possible. S4 (released in 2014) runs on Windows XP, Core 2 Duo, and Nvidia 6600GT. They don't care about cutting edge, or realistic graphics, they just iterate on what they already build. Frostbite meanwhile is 64-bit only and they don't support old hardware.

 

Actually, Sims 4 specs are remarkable close to the Fb game Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare (Windows 7 64, Core 2 Duo, nVidia 8800GT), which would have a similar goal to keeping as many of its casual gaming fans as possible. To further the point, XP was end-of-life in 2014. The next Sims game will likely have Win7 as its base.

 

 

 

 

Not to mention that while FB could support something like Sims, they'd have to build all of their functionality from scratch. When BW transitioned to Frostbite, they had to build first the conversation system, equipment, approval, and so on, because they didn't exist in FB. The Andromeda team will have a little less work, because the driving mechanic is already implemented by the NFS team and the shooting mechanic was made by DICE themselves. But Sims? They'd have to recreate everything, because it's a very specific game, and no other like it were done under FB.

 

Sims functionality might have to be rebuilt anyways. It's one thing if the game got a Metacritic score close to 100, but it didn't. It received a 70. While maybe not crucial, it might be enough incentive to streamline EA's line-up further by switching it over to Fb. Not that it be a huge deal. Character and environment creation are established early on via tools and these tools can then be adapted for users. The most impressive part of Sims, is the AI and this would just need to be reinputted and edited if Fb's AI uses a different language. As long as the engine can handle the scripting, this shouldn't be overly difficult.

 

 

 

 

While many developers know about technologies earlier (BW is probably already testing MEA on the rumoured PS4K), I doubt BW has such relations with Apple.

 

I find this hard to believe. There are gamers at Apple, believe me. Maybe there isn't a company relations person assigned, per se, but there will be people in the know who would know or could at least mention something like "BTW, Apple's not going with Vulkan", which is really all that would be necessary to kill a project on OS X and possibly even if it was just Linux; difficult to get two birds if one won't sit still.

 

 

 

Blizzard is a curious example, because they supported Mac for so long, and now they have no intention of bringing Overwatch to OS X. The fact that they would skip Mac is rather concerning.

 

It would be nice to have a Mac version, but in the end, Metal is still missing some features that DX12/Vulkan have, and unless Apple really commits to gaming during the next WWDC, I don't see Mac gaming heading anywhere.

 

Yeah, an article from SegmentNext mentions this. Thankfully, there was a silverlining from the Overwatch's game director stating to contact Apple. And why not, Blizzard clearly knew there was interest. And i think the same should happen for MEA.

[Biotic Apostate]

Actually, Sims 4 specs are remarkable close to the Fb game Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare (Windows 7 64, Core 2 Duo, nVidia 8800GT), which would have a similar goal to keeping as many of its casual gaming fans as possible. To further the point, XP was end-of-life in 2014. The next Sims game will likely have Win7 as its base.

 

Sims functionality might have to be rebuilt anyways. It's one thing if the game got a Metacritic score close to 100, but it didn't. It received a 70. While maybe not crucial, it might be enough incentive to streamline EA's line-up further by switching it over to Fb. Not that it be a huge deal. Character and environment creation are established early on via tools and these tools can then be adapted for users. The most impressive part of Sims, is the AI and this would just need to be reinputted and edited if Fb's AI uses a different language. As long as the engine can handle the scripting, this shouldn't be overly difficult.

 

I find this hard to believe. There are gamers at Apple, believe me. Maybe there isn't a company relations person assigned, per se, but there will be people in the know who would know or could at least mention something like "BTW, Apple's not going with Vulkan", which is really all that would be necessary to kill a project on OS X and possibly even if it was just Linux; difficult to get two birds if one won't sit still.

 

Yeah, an article from SegmentNext mentions this. Thankfully, there was a silverlining from the Overwatch's game director stating to contact Apple. And why not, Blizzard clearly knew there was interest. And i think the same should happen for MEA.

Fair enough about Plants vs Zombies. While I have no doubt a future Sims title will not support XP, there is still the point about 64-bit exclusivity. It's hard to say how much of an impact that would have right now - Steam reports that most systems are 64-bit, but Sims games usually draw a different public.

 

Apple's flaky commitment to gaming is perfectly illustrated by the fact that they dropped out of the Vulkan group (the Apple logo was plastered everywhere, until they decided to go with their own API). Instead of going with a standard that would unify game development, they decided to go with their iOS standard (with some added elements of course), which facilitates programming for both iOS and OS X, but stifles cross-platform game development. Before Metal, Apple was also notoriously slow on adopting new versions of OpenGL. There might be some interest in gaming within Apple, but it's nowhere near a priority.

 

Again, unless Apple commits to gaming (Vulkan + allowing AMD/Intel/Nvidia deliver driver updates independently from OS updates), I don't see a bright future for Mac gaming. For all we know, Apple might be working on transitioning to ARM (please no), and none of this will make any difference.

[Monk]

 

Fair enough about Plants vs Zombies. While I have no doubt a future Sims title will not support XP, there is still the point about 64-bit exclusivity. It's hard to say how much of an impact that would have right now - Steam reports that most systems are 64-bit, but Sims games usually draw a different public.

 

Apple's flaky commitment to gaming is perfectly illustrated by the fact that they dropped out of the Vulkan group (the Apple logo was plastered everywhere, until they decided to go with their own API). Instead of going with a standard that would unify game development, they decided to go with their iOS standard (with some added elements of course), which facilitates programming for both iOS and OS X, but stifles cross-platform game development. Before Metal, Apple was also notoriously slow on adopting new versions of OpenGL. There might be some interest in gaming within Apple, but it's nowhere near a priority.

 

Again, unless Apple commits to gaming (Vulkan + allowing AMD/Intel/Nvidia deliver driver updates independently from OS updates), I don't see a bright future for Mac gaming. For all we know, Apple might be working on transitioning to ARM (please no), and none of this will make any difference.

 

 

 

Apple seems a bit of a love/hate relationship with gaming. While gaming hasn't been a large part of the Mac OS, there have been other projects – i.e. Pippin and Apple TV – that have been meant to be solely, or close to it, focused on gaming. Even the iPhone, after various hick-ups, has embraced gaming. While none of BioWare (BW)'s new titles are on the latest iPad, you'll see older greats like Baldur's Gate and Knights of the Old Republic (Kotor), with Kotor 2 expected to be released as well. Going beyond BW, a lot, if not all, of the Grand Theft Auto games are also there, along side Sims 3 and FIFA 15.

 

I agree about not wanting to see Apple switch it's computers to ARM, as the Mac platform has been my preference for decades, regardless of the other OS's i've dealt with professionally. It might be advantageous, however, since it's the same chip family the iPads use and the big games are starting to see full releases, even if these are the dated versions. Consider, if these larger game studios already have the iOS SDK installed to get their latest on the iPads, only a minimal of tinkering is required to get the same games on the Mac. And with a full computer at their disposal, full on versions of these games could come to the platform through the ARM route vs the Intel route. It will mean a new computer for all of us but would mean an infusion of more games. Of course, this might not be the best solution considering computer prices and software upgrades (even a Macbook Pro for approx. $1000 isn't a deal if already bought recently).

 

For those wanting to contact Apple, here's the main contact page: http://www.apple.com/contact/

 

Of those listed, i suggest the Product Feedback page and Developer one towards the bottom, if you feel you can accurately portray the difficulties developers face when dealing with a restrictive API like Metal.

 

Please take a few minutes if you're really interested. Good luck!

[Monk]

(Edit: weird. Either the previous post was slow in posting or i didn't realize it was there. My bad)