289 réponses à ce sujet

[Tatar Foras]

How about......NO?

[von uber]

Problem with your suggestion is that half of the galatic economy is based around the manufacture of waist high objects and walls.

[Ascari]

How bout a mod for it, cause I need a cover. 

[Kierro Ren]

The thread isn't really about Call of Duty, though. I hate CoD. I don't play it. I didn't even know it had a 3rd-person option before watching the OP's video.

What do you think of replacing the "snap to cover" mechanic with something a bit more true to life?

 

If done correctly, sure. However, Mass Effect isn't really a typical shooter, it's an RPGShooter. So, I'm not real sure on real life tactics and RPG elements. Doesn't seem to mesh well.

[Undead Han]

I like that the cover mostly looks natural in that gameplay vid. 

 

Andromeda should definitely go that route, rather than having every level populated by random metal shipping crates.

[SKAR]

I think BioWare should remove the cover based mechanic all together and go for a Modern Warfare 2 style third person gameplay, it was fluid and worked quite well and there would not be a need for totally fake cover boulders every second. BioWare can also learn to create a better multiplayer experience if they looked at Call of Duty, the credits for one take too long to grind to be enjoyable.



EDIT: Why is it wrong to suggest what BioWare can learn from different franchises? I'm just using Modern Warfare 2 as an example.

No offense but I don't think so buddy.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I would rather they keep the cover mechanics and get rid of the RHA exploit so people have to learn to utilize cover properly to git gud.

 

Come at me bros.

[Cyonan]

So it's not wrong to suggest that BioWare learn from another game. For example, when designing melee in ME:A I think it would be great for them to take a good look at Warframe. The melee in that game just feels great and doesn't slow down the pace of combat.

 

However, one does not simply use CoD as an example to how a beloved game should be without getting hate.

 

Plus, we could already play ME3 in the way that the guy in that video is playing MW2. When you're playing MP it's generally recommended that you don't use much cover, unless you have a thing for being stabbed by Phantoms.

[RoboticWater]

So it's not wrong to suggest that BioWare learn from another game. For example, when designing melee in ME:A I think it would be great for them to take a good look at Warframe. The melee in that game just feels great and doesn't slow down the pace of combat.

 

However, one does not simply use CoD as an example to how a beloved game should be without getting hate.

 

Plus, we could already play ME3 in the way that the guy in that video is playing MW2. When you're playing MP it's generally recommended that you don't use much cover, unless you have a thing for being stabbed by Phantoms.

Eh...

 

Warframe's melee combat works so well because of its crazy ninja movement system, and the only way I think Mass Effect could emulate it is if the designers changed Mass Effect's core movement mechanics. Personally, I'd rather Mass Effect try to stay slow and put a greater emphasis on flanking rather than charging.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Wouldn't change much considering that the hard cover mechanic in ME3 is only used by inexperienced players who don't know how to exploit RHA and soft cover yet. It's more an annoyance that you occasionally get stuck to while attempting to sprint than a significant part of the gameplay meta.

 

These games actually could learn from older CoDs, because they were great games and mechanically sound.  How to achieve decent weapon balance would be a good place to start.

 

Weapon balance is less important in cooperative games, I think. I don't mind an OP (but not too much) gun if it's fun to use.

 

And yeah, ME3's usage of cover was good. Useful in a tight spot, but you have enough mobility and defensive options to play without it (unlike, say, ME2 which played like whack-a-mole).

[Cyonan]

Eh...

 

Warframe's melee combat works so well because of its crazy ninja movement system, and the only way I think Mass Effect could emulate it is if the designers changed Mass Effect's core movement mechanics. Personally, I'd rather Mass Effect try to stay slow and put a greater emphasis on flanking rather than charging.

 

The system works well without all the parkour. Even something as simple as swinging my Scindo Prime through a group of enemies feels better than most of the melee in ME3. Just using basic melee without all the crazy movement still feels better than ME3, other than maybe Krogan because it was hard hitting and a charge attack so you kept up some momentum.

 

The problem with Shep's melee is that you have to stop, draw the omni-tool and then punch which is all a fairly slow animation for a melee that's probably not even going to kill the target. The thing about Mass Effect 3 is that they actually wanted to speed up the combat and they succeeded in all areas except they actually made the melee slower by fleshing it out beyond the Shep Elbow that the previous games had.

 

I'm not against letting people hang back and be more tactical but I'm also likely going to be playing a Vanguard, which means I do expect a faster more "in your face" style of combat. At least for that class.

[Element Zero]

So it's not wrong to suggest that BioWare learn from another game. For example, when designing melee in ME:A I think it would be great for them to take a good look at Warframe. The melee in that game just feels great and doesn't slow down the pace of combat.
 
However, one does not simply use CoD as an example to how a beloved game should be without getting hate.
 
Plus, we could already play ME3 in the way that the guy in that video is playing MW2. When you're playing MP it's generally recommended that you don't use much cover, unless you have a thing for being stabbed by Phantoms.

Yeah, MP teaches one to play this way already, but I was thinking the point of the thread was more about the aesthetics and feel of MEA. Eliminating the silly, omnipresent walls, boxes and strange formations that littered the landscapes of the original trilogy would go a long way toward improving visuals and verisimilitude in MEA. Those ugly walls are going to look 10x uglier on the PS4, XBox One and modern PC.

I remember the first time I made that steep climb in the disabled Collector ship. As I cautiously weaved around the waist-high walls, I thought, "I'm clearly about to fight, or I'm fighting my way back out". Naturally, I knew from the start that things were going to go sideways and that this was a Collector trap; but having it immediately confirmed by waist-high walls was kind of lame. I'd love to see such things, and the snap-to-cover system that necessitates them, eliminated in favor of something smoother and more life-like.

[RoboticWater]

The system works well without all the parkour. Even something as simple as swinging my Scindo Prime through a group of enemies feels better than most of the melee in ME3. Just using basic melee without all the crazy movement still feels better than ME3, other than maybe Krogan because it was hard hitting and a charge attack so you kept up some momentum.
 
The problem with Shep's melee is that you have to stop, draw the omni-tool and then punch which is all a fairly slow animation for a melee that's probably not even going to kill the target. The thing about Mass Effect 3 is that they actually wanted to speed up the combat and they succeeded in all areas except they actually made the melee slower by fleshing it out beyond the Shep Elbow that the previous games had.

I suspect that the stationary melee was probably an intentional simulation of Gears of War's chainsaw kills. Essentially, you're forced to commit to your melee attack and suffer any of the out-of-cover consequences. I didn't dislike ME3's greater speed, and I wouldn't even mind if it got faster; however, given how solid I thought ME3's moment to moment combat was, I think I'd prefer BioWare now work on expanding the tactics. Unfortunately, faster combat might complicate the tactical layer of the game.
 

I'm not against letting people hang back and be more tactical but I'm also likely going to be playing a Vanguard, which means I do expect a faster more "in your face" style of combat. At least for that class.

The vanguard could be the exception, having a melee attack that followed through with the player's movement. It's always been the hit-and-run class

[Khrystyn]

I think BioWare should remove the cover based mechanic all together

I'm new to playing these kinds of games, and appreciate using cover for protection. I'm not a run-and-gun player and do not want to be exposed to fire anymore than necessary. I really don't understand your point of 'removing the cover mechanic all together." This makes no sense - it is an absurd suggestion, it seems to me.

People come from a variety of experiences, inexperience, and preferences to play shooting-type games. Why would any rpg expect all players to operate with no cover system? Why should anything be 'one-way' only? Cover or no-cover?

I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that the OP is asking for a discussion about cover systems. Of note, mickey111 started a thread about the cover system back on June 24th, 2015, but with only 6 replies. I'm interested in learning about cover systems and hope others will be informative on this topic.

 

Why not make some 'no-cover' MP missions available for the really hardcore gamers to enjoy?

[Element Zero]

If done correctly, sure. However, Mass Effect isn't really a typical shooter, it's an RPGShooter. So, I'm not real sure on real life tactics and RPG elements. Doesn't seem to mesh well.

I agree that Mass Effect shouldn't play like a hard-core tactical combat simulator. Most ME players want to roleplay a combat master without having to actually be such themselves. That's sort of the point of most RPGs, really. (For instance, an RPG should allow you to sit down and roleplay Sherlock Holmes without your being a master sleuth by trade.)

Still, that doesn't mean we need to cling to outdated, antiquated mechanics. In every game I've ever seen thus far, snap-to-cover mechanics have necessitated ugly, unnatural waist-high obstructions, like those that dominated the landscapes of the original ME trilogy. Breaking the new protagonist and crew free from snap-to-cover, and allowing them to move in more believable, lifelike ways could add a lot of verisimilitude to the game. At the same time, it could feed us from those silly, waist-high walls.

[AlanC9]

Hard cover, where you push a key and get a special animation to get into it, and then have different animations to lean out and shoot. In the video it is just using soft cover, right hand advantage and natural crouch to break line of sight and shoot around or above objects. The OP is not suggesting cover be removed from the game.

Thanks. I don't really speak FPS, though I play them from time to time. But I'm still a little vague on the specifics of the proposed change. That vid didn't help me much since I can't imagine they'll ever implement ME enemies going down that fast.

[Vespervin]

Ah, third-person Modern Warfare 2. Good times Excellent times.

[Element Zero]

Thanks. I don't really speak FPS, though I play them from time to time. But I'm still a little vague on the specifics of the proposed change. That vid didn't help me much since I can't imagine they'll ever implement ME enemies going down that fast.

Imagine if Shepard automatically assumed a defensive posture when you entered combat. Imagine he automatically crouched behind the low wall when you approached it, rather than the game requiring you to spam the "A" button (or "X" button or whatever) to take cover. The protagonist and crew would simply move more realistically through a more realistic world, interacting with it in accord with circumstance.

This would allow for much more realistic character animations, in lieu of the protag sliding back and forth along the wall to which he's adhered himself. Imagine a sprinting character sliding into cover or banging hard into the wall as he takes position at the corner of an intersection/doorway/whatnot... It could be a beautiful thing. The character would be free to move about within the area of cover in a way hard cover games don't allow, opening the door for sweet character animations and more realistic tactical angles.

[Cyonan]

I suspect that the stationary melee was probably an intentional simulation of Gears of War's chainsaw kills. Essentially, you're forced to commit to your melee attack and suffer any of the out-of-cover consequences. I didn't dislike ME3's greater speed, and I wouldn't even mind if it got faster; however, given how solid I thought ME3's moment to moment combat was, I think I'd prefer BioWare now work on expanding the tactics. Unfortunately, faster combat might complicate the tactical layer of the game.
 

The vanguard could be the exception, having a melee attack that followed through with the player's movement. It's always been the hit-and-run class

 

Well the main thing I like from Warframe's melee is that it doesn't break the momentum of combat, but even in trying to emulate GoW's chainsaw kills the melee from Mass Effect 3 SP simply didn't deal enough damage.

 

I think for combat pace I'd like to be able to have a few different styles. A Vanguard or even Soldier should be able to charge and break enemy lines, but an Infiltrator should also be able to use Tactical Cloak for more than just the damage boost that made up the majority of its use in ME3.

[lanawinst]

I want to be able to go to cover and pause to survey the area and issue orders, so for me it's a no thanks, unless they also add a story mode that skips all combats because I already don't like the shooter mechanics that much, if Bioware don't let me at least pretend I'm in a rpg, I'd rather just skip all combats. 

 

I would rather they keep the cover mechanics and get rid of the RHA exploit so people have to learn to utilize cover properly to git gud.

 

Come at me bros.

 

I don't play the game to get good, I don't care about getting good. I play it to experience a story. Having the "bros come at me " personally would make the fights much more annoying, forcing me out of cover even more than it already does. I've played 8 out of 9 times mass effect on easy, and only once on insanity to see what the fuss it is about. And well, while I can do it without too much trouble, it's also not worth the added time for me. 

[Cyonan]

I want to be able to go to cover and pause to survey the area and issue orders, so for me it's a no thanks, unless they also add a story mode that skips all combats because I already don't like the shooter mechanics that much, if Bioware don't let me at least pretend I'm in a rpg, I'd rather just skip all combats. 

 

 

I don't play the game to get good, I don't care about getting good. I play it to experience a story. Having the "bros come at me " personally would make the fights much more annoying, forcing me out of cover even more than it already does. I've played 8 out of 9 times mass effect on easy, and only once on insanity to see what the fuss it is about. And well, while I can do it without too much trouble, it's also not worth the added time for me. 

 

To be fair if all you want is story there actually was a story mode in Mass Effect 3. It didn't remove the combat, but made it so easy that regardless of what they do to the mechanics of the combat you'll be able to blow through the enemy with little to no effort.

[Sartoz]

To be fair, Modern Warfare's multiplayer popularized the "RPG mechanics," (XP/weapon progression/perks) we're still seeing in multiplayer shooters.

 

More on topic however, I completely disagree. The cover mechanics serve to slow Mass Effect's gameplay down so that squad tactics and power usage are more valuable in combat than simply running and gunning.

                                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>

 

Well, Bio is rebuilding the combat mechanics from scratch due to the FB3 engine. I expect similarities to ME2-3 but also significant changes, if DA:I is anything to go by.

[ZipZap2000]

I'm not trolling.

 

 

And I'm the real first Krogan SPECTRE.

[Helios969]

Dear US Army:

 

Please remove cover and concealment from your tactical manuals as real soldiers are tough enough to withstand being shot repeatedly.  Just look at John Rambo.

 

Regards,

 

Adolescent Teen

 

[Teabaggin Krogan]

I'd prefer they avoided the stick to cover mechanic as well as the omnibutton bs. Then again I mostly always prefer using soft cover anyway. It might be better implemented by allowing us to take cover but not having our backs stuck to it, so that getting out of cover is more fluid and our mobility isn't disabled while in cover.

 

Another even more important feature from the video is the ability to crouch and go prone Imo. It'd add more realism and versatility to the combat in terms of cover, usage of sniper rifles and while engaging over longer ranges.