289 réponses à ce sujet

[TheN7Penguin]

Funniest thing I've heard all year... Someone actually liked the elevators???

 

 Of course. I got to listen to the news, my squadmates, it was a lore friendly way to travel and the music was great. What's not to love?

[sjsharp2011]

I loved the elevators. They created a sense of coherence to the Citadel, as each piece was connected and existed in a specific physical location relative to the others.

And they replaced what would otherwise just be loading screens. I much prefer to cover the distance rather than just be transported somewhere. That's why I don't use fast traveling in Skyrim, and that's why I like the elevators.

Even the Mako made distance pass too swiftly. That's partly why I did the Ilos trench run on foot.

Indeed I enjoy the elevators too when I use them.

[7twozero]

Yeah it's called the N7 shadow.

I was thinking of slayer actually, since they said sword and biotic charge

[7twozero]

Really? Never played MP--the people I play coop with have Xboxes, and I play ME on PC. Well, here's hoping they have it for Andromeda SP, anyway.

Never too late, if you're interested come over to the me3mp forum to rustle up some teammates, we're always happy to help new mp players

[Element Zero]

I did not know that.

Seriously?

Start clearing those aforementioned pirate bases, thresher maws and colossi on foot and you'll find your Shepard finishes the game several levels higher.

[10K]

They should definitely go with contextual based cover system like TLoU. When you're next to cover your character will utilize it on their own, no button needed.

[Element Zero]

They should definitely go with contextual based cover system like TLoU. When you're next to cover your character will utilize it on their own, no button needed.

I'm not sure why I didn't think to use this example. That's another example of a game that ditched outdated snap-to-cover mechanics (found in Uncharted, its near kin) in favor of cleaner, contextual cover mechanics.

85% of the posts have been spent whinging about the CoD example, rather than addressing the actual question. [EDIT: Upon review, the opening sentence of the OP does directly refer to removing all cover mechanics, not modifying them. That discussion evolved only later.] I suspect many people opposed to suggestion of contextual cover simply haven't played enough games to understand the concept. It would not drastically alter gameplay. It would allow them to clean up and modernize some of the animations and controls. The game would still be a cover-based shooter (in terms of combat), and one could still hole-up and play whack-a-mole if desired.

[RoboticWater]

I'm not sure why I didn't think to use this example. That's another example of a game that ditched outdated snap-to-cover mechanics (found in Uncharted, its near kin) in favor of cleaner, contextual cover mechanics.

85% of the posts have been spent whinging about the CoD example, rather than addressing the actual question. I suspect many people opposed to suggestion of contextual cover simply haven't played enough games to understand the concept. It would not drastically alter gameplay. It would allow them to clean up and modernize some of the animations and controls. The game would still be a cover-based shooter (in terms of combat), and one could still hole-up and play whack-a-mole if desired.

You do realize that anyone "whining about the CoD example," are addressing the actual question posed in the OP. Should we get rid of the cover system like that CoD example? I say no. 

 

Could BIoWare streamline the cover system so that it doesn't rely on a button to snap to cover? Sure, as long as the purpose of cover still remains. Non-tanks need to have some degree of safe maneuverability around the battlefield and the combat overall needs to stay slower to promote tactics and squad teamwork.

[Cyonan]

They should definitely go with contextual based cover system like TLoU. When you're next to cover your character will utilize it on their own, no button needed.

 

I've not played TLoU so I don't know exactly how they did it but I'm generally not really a fan of my character taking actions just because I got close to something, especially in the case of cover when it's going to be everywhere. Mass Effect 1 also did that, and it felt really clunky.

 

I'd mostly just want them to let me rebind everything so that interact, revive, and take cover weren't all the same button like they were in ME3.

[Eelectrica]

Jos could probably answer the question on how they're handling it since it seems he's working on missions now, but won't because NDA.

[Element Zero]

You do realize that anyone "whining about the CoD example," are addressing the actual question posed in the OP. Should we get rid of the cover system like that CoD example? I say no. 
 
Could BIoWare streamline the cover system so that it doesn't rely on a button to snap to cover? Sure, as long as the purpose of cover still remains. Non-tanks need to have some degree of safe maneuverability around the battlefield and the combat overall needs to stay slower to promote tactics and squad teamwork.

True that is. I had to go back and read the OP, and there it is clearly stated in the first sentence. The OP had since seemed to champion a cleaner, modernized cover-based shooter mechanic. I had completely lost sight of the original post.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'll edit my "whinging" comment to acknowledge such.

[10K]

I've not played TLoU so I don't know exactly how they did it but I'm generally not really a fan of my character taking actions just because I got close to something, especially in the case of cover when it's going to be everywhere. Mass Effect 1 also did that, and it felt really clunky.
 
I'd mostly just want them to let me rebind everything so that interact, revive, and take cover weren't all the same button like they were in ME3.

Trust me it's not clunky at all. It's very fluid, and your character isn't stuck to cover. You move in and out with ease. ME1 was a mess when it came to cover. TLoU cover system can't even be compared to ME.

[Element Zero]

I've not played TLoU so I don't know exactly how they did it but I'm generally not really a fan of my character taking actions just because I got close to something, especially in the case of cover when it's going to be everywhere. Mass Effect 1 also did that, and it felt really clunky.
 
I'd mostly just want them to let me rebind everything so that interact, revive, and take cover weren't all the same button like they were in ME3.

Your character doesn't just jump into cover because you get close to it. You do have to subtly move against it. I can't recall it ever happening when I didn't want it to happen. You couldn't transplant it directly from TLoU into ME, but the concept is one that I expect to see implemented. It seems to be the way all cover-based games are moving. It's so much cleaner, both in terms of controls and animations.

[Cyonan]

Your character doesn't just jump into cover because you get close to it. You do have to subtly move against it. I can't recall it ever happening when I didn't want it to happen. You couldn't transplant it directly from TLoU into ME, but the concept is one that I expect to see implemented. It seems to be the way all cover-based games are moving. It's so much cleaner, both in terms of controls and animations.

 

I'd still rather have complete control over what my character does with regards to cover. Sometimes I want to get very close to a chest high wall without actually cuddling up to it. As a result, I've always found a button to just be easier and faster than games that are trying to guess at what I want to do.

 

I also don't believe animation should take priority over gameplay mechanics during combat.

[SardaukarElite]

I'd still rather have complete control over what my character does with regards to cover. Sometimes I want to get very close to a chest high wall without actually cuddling up to it. As a result, I've always found a button to just be easier and faster than games that are trying to guess at what I want to do.

 

I also don't believe animation should take priority over gameplay mechanics during combat.

 

The important difference in The Last of Us (or new Tomb Raider for that matter) is that cover isn't so much of a separate state from normal movement. You don't stick into it. 

 

So when the game is guessing at what you want to do it's guessing that you'd like your character to stand on the spot you put them on in a way that doesn't get them shot - if possible. They aren't moving off the spot you put them, and they won't move slower into the next state you put them in. 

 

That said, such games tend to lose rapid ways to move cover to cover, and dive into cover, which I'd like them to explore bringing back. 

[Element Zero]

I'd still rather have complete control over what my character does with regards to cover. Sometimes I want to get very close to a chest high wall without actually cuddling up to it. As a result, I've always found a button to just be easier and faster than games that are trying to guess at what I want to do.
 
I also don't believe animation should take priority over gameplay mechanics during combat.

I see what you're saying. Precision is nice. If ME were as deadly as TLoU, it's cover mechanics would've gotten me killed a number of times, though, since it's not as precise as it should be. Contextual cover isn't necessarily the answer, it's just the best attempt I've seen so far. Maybe MEA will have a new take on cover mechanics that trumps all previous systems. I certainly hope so!

I think TLoU system is pretty seamless. Though the combat style and pace is very different than ME, shooters all have some similarities. I used (no longer own TLoU) a lot of the same tactics you've described in your posts in TLoU. You should check it out some time, if the game is something you think you might like to experience. You may or may not like the mechanics. It's hard to say. It's a well written story and experience, at least.

[Element Zero]

The important difference in The Last of Us (or new Tomb Raider for that matter) is that cover isn't so much of a separate state from normal movement. You don't stick into it.

So when the game is guessing at what you want to do it's guessing that you'd like your character to stand on the spot you put them on in a way that doesn't get them shot - if possible. They aren't moving off the spot you put them, and they won't move slower into the next state you put them in.

That said, such games tend to lose rapid ways to move cover to cover, and dive into cover, which I'd like them to explore bringing back.

Good points. I expect some game will bring those refinements at some point. That game is going to be a helluva lot of fun to play.

That's really what I've been trying to describe as my ideal vision for MEA. It's not what I'm expecting, since I don't like to set unrealistic or baseless expectations. Still, with this shared game engine across studios, we could see some great gameplay evolution in the series. Who knows how polished MEA will really be? I hope it's far more than a spit-shined ME3, as much as I enjoy that gameplay.

[Cyonan]

I see what you're saying. Precision is nice. If ME were as deadly as TLoU, it's cover mechanics would've gotten me killed a number of times, though, since it's not as precise as it should be. Contextual cover isn't necessarily the answer, it's just the best attempt I've seen so far. Maybe MEA will have a new take on cover mechanics that trumps all previous systems. I certainly hope so!

I think TLoU system is pretty seamless. Though the combat style and pace is very different than ME, shooters all have some similarities. I used (no longer own TLoU) a lot of the same tactics you've described in your posts in TLoU. You should check it out some time, if the game is something you think you might like to experience. You may or may not like the mechanics. It's hard to say. It's a well written story and experience, at least.

 

Mass Effect 3's main issue is that the button to take cover is also the button to dodge, interact, and revive. They need to separate those functions out so they don't have a single omni-button.

 

I'd love to play TLoU, but I don't own a console and it's not on PC.

[Element Zero]

Gotcha. I've missed many great games by being on the other side of things and playing only what's available to consoles. I look at things like optimized gaming PCs and the mods available for series like ME, and I wish I had the circumstances, cash and time for PC gaming.

That omni-button really is a big part of the issue. If we stick to using buttons for cover, though, options are limited. Pretty much every button already has a combat function. I guess we could break things up and spread them out so one button doesn't do 10 things, but they'd need to carefully play test their "fix". If they reassign a key action like cover to the wrong button, it could become all types of aggravating.

I think we will have a pretty good idea of what to expect in mid-June after E3. They have to show at least a little bit of gameplay (I hope!).

[Teabaggin Krogan]

Ah, cool! That's not exactly the sort of thing I had in mind, though. It's less about stealthy silent teleport stabbiness than it is super-agile telespam slashing. This sort of thing:



Obviously, I wouldn't want to be nearly so OP, at least in the early game, but you get the idea. I'm not saying BioWare should actually do it, mind: as much fun as I'd have, it just isn't how Mass Effect is supposed to play.

 

Yeah I've played through the witcher 3, I know how it is. But Ciri while being a badass, makes the game waay too easy though. Especially the section you highlighted which is the most ridiculous combat section in game. Ciri gets one hit kills and almost infinite use of teleporting and other powers. That'd be a bit too hard to balance in an ME setting Imo. But an interesting idea nevertheless!

 

I was thinking of slayer actually, since they said sword and biotic charge

 

True that works too. 

[KirkyX]

Never too late, if you're interested come over to the me3mp forum to rustle up some teammates, we're always happy to help new mp players

Cheers, man! I'm actually in the middle of an ME1 playthrough at the mo--I might actually give the multiplayer a shot this time, once I get to 3.

[Deebo305]

EDIT: Why is it wrong to suggest what BioWare can learn from different franchises? I'm just using Modern Warfare 2 as an example.

Nothing at all CoD infact has some ofvthe best set pieces in gaming despite all the hate

But removing the cover system is a bad idea. The game just wouldn't be the same, it would require the PC to be far more mobile and agile but even with the jetpack confirmed until Bioware starts using proper motion capture the animations will still be rather robotic

The better choice is to take cues from The Division with HIGHLY aggressive enemies who force you out of cover. Only ME3 had afew but for the most part, most mobs would sit in cover and never move. Having enemies who think about flanking you as much as you would them would do the game some good

The Geth who'd hop around the screen and fire at you from different angles are still one of my favorite enemies from ME1

[Para9on So1dier]

You don't have to use cover, though you place yourself at risk from enemy fire, alternatively the option to stand behind a wall without clinging to it is already in game, just don't press A or X near it.

[Sailears]

I want over cover melee grab kills to return so there must be some element of hard cover to make this possible.

Unless melee 1 hit kills can be implemented in another way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The important difference in The Last of Us (or new Tomb Raider for that matter) is that cover isn't so much of a separate state from normal movement. You don't stick into it.

So when the game is guessing at what you want to do it's guessing that you'd like your character to stand on the spot you put them on in a way that doesn't get them shot - if possible. They aren't moving off the spot you put them, and they won't move slower into the next state you put them in.

It shouldn't have to guess. If there's a specific action involved, we should have some unambiguous control with which trigger it.

That ME3 had Sprint and Cover mapped to the same button was idiotic.