289 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Gotcha. I've missed many great games by being on the other side of things and playing only what's available to consoles. I look at things like optimized gaming PCs and the mods available for series like ME, and I wish I had the circumstances, cash and time for PC gaming.

Well, cash shouldn't be a serious issue unless you don't need to have a PC at all. Components to turn a typical PC into a gaming rig were in the ballpark of what a console would cost, last time I checked -- though of course that won't get you anywhere near top of the line performance.

[howyummy]

Not gonna lie,
I like this idea.
In my opinion, it seems more fluid to me.
Being able to see the character's whole body is ideal to me, since I'm all about character detail.
NOW IF THEY'D ADDED THE SWITCH FROM RIGHT HAND TO LEFT HAND WHENEVER NECESSARY...

EDIT:
Also, it would be a better advantage for the sake of controlling your camera angle. Sometimes I'm unaware of enemies behind me. I'd have to do a full 360 to check my surroundings. o<-<

[Element Zero]

Well, cash shouldn't be a serious issue unless you don't need to have a PC at all. Components to turn a typical PC into a gaming rig were in the ballpark of what a console would cost, last time I checked -- though of course that won't get you anywhere near top of the line performance.

Yeah, much of the issue involves my personality. I'd get caught up in having the best, and I'd pour time and money into it that is better devoted to other pursuits. With consoles, you buy one and it's done for 8-10 years. You miss out on high end performance, mods and some games, but it's a one time investment.

[SKAR]

Dear US Army:

Please remove cover and concealment from your tactical manuals as real soldiers are tough enough to withstand being shot repeatedly. Just look at John Rambo.

Regards,

Adolescent Teen

Dude you are awesome!

[SNascimento]

It's not gonna happen. 

[SNascimento]

That ME3 had Sprint and Cover mapped to the same button was idiotic.

Nope, many TPS have that and it works fine. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Nope, many TPS have that and it works fine.

It's dumb. Why not have them be separate?

Especially in an RPG, where player skill isn't supposed to matter.

[sjsharp2011]

It's dumb. Why not have them be separate?

Especially in an RPG, where player skill isn't supposed to matter.

While it would be possible on PC it wouldn't work on console I think that's the problem. I think most companies these days are building their games for console first and PC second whilst it is annoying for those of us (of which I count myself among them) who  prefer gaming on PC that's the way it is.

[Element Zero]

It's dumb. Why not have them be separate?
Especially in an RPG, where player skill isn't supposed to matter.

It's pretty clear to everyone by now that Mass Effect isn't just an RPG. It's also a third-person shooter, and it's a pretty enjoyable one. It brings some unique things to that genre even without considering the roleplaying aspects of the game.

I have to admit I love the fact that player skill plays a part. I completely understand your preference and agree that pure RP would remove player skill from the equation. I like the hybridized gameplay that Mass Effect has created, though.

As to the button layout, all of the buttons already have logical assignments. I've thought about this before and never come up with a layout that I believe would be better than the current one. That doesn't mean someone else won't invent one, but I haven't come up with it in my occasional musings, and BioWare clearly hadn't yet through the development of ME3. I think it's as close to optimized as current mechanics allow. That's another reason I'd like to see a contextual cover system that doesn't require button pressing at all.

EDIT: Clearly, I am speaking from the perspective of a console player. PC players have plenty of buttons left. The vast majority of players, I'd assume, are playing on consoles, though, so you PC gamers are saddled with some irritating restrictions as a result.

[Malanek]

We also have jump to be added in which is an extra key. I do think having the option to map 'enter cover' to a separate key is something that shouldn't be too hard and would add a lot of value to a lot of people. 

[Element Zero]

We also have jump to be added in which is an extra key. I do think having the option to map 'enter cover' to a separate key is something that shouldn't be too hard and would add a lot of value to a lot of people.

Yeah, that's true. The jet pack and possibly a physical jump need to be accounted for, now. Hopefully, we get to see some gameplay in June and can get some ideas of what solutions they've come up with for these issues. This is the type of stuff they likely handled long ago, but we may not have solid info about for a long while, yet.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's pretty clear to everyone by now that Mass Effect isn't just an RPG. It's also a third-person shooter, and it's a pretty enjoyable one. It brings some unique things to that genre even without considering the roleplaying aspects of the game.

I have to admit I love the fact that player skill plays a part. I completely understand your preference and agree that pure RP would remove player skill from the equation. I like the hybridized gameplay that Mass Effect has created, though.

But most of the aspects of ME that reward player skill are optional. The pause-to-aim feature makes sure of that.

So having movement be based on player skill in real time (mandatorily) while the actual shooting isn't is incomprehensible.

As to the button layout, all of the buttons already have logical assignments. I've thought about this before and never come up with a layout that I believe would be better than the current one.

Isn't it customizable? Regardless of platform or control device, the buttons should at the very least be remappable.

Are you saying the ME's buttons (in controller) aren't?

That doesn't mean someone else won't invent one, but I haven't come up with it in my occasional musings, and BioWare clearly hadn't yet through the development of ME3. I think it's as close to optimized as current mechanics allow. That's another reason I'd like to see a contextual cover system that doesn't require button pressing at all.

I'd like to see hard cover removed entirely, for exactly the same reason.

If it's a distinct thing our character does, it should be explicitly and directly triggered by the player.

The character should do nothing at all without direct player input.

EDIT: Clearly, I am speaking from the perspective of a console player. PC players have plenty of buttons left. The vast majority of players, I'd assume, are playing on consoles, though, so you PC gamers are saddled with some irritating restrictions as a result.

There is little evidence to support conclusions regarding platform market share.

[Cyonan]

I'd like to see hard cover removed entirely, for exactly the same reason.

If it's a distinct thing our character does, it should be explicitly and directly triggered by the player.

The character should do nothing at all without direct player input.

 

but hard cover as it was in ME3 was directly triggered by the player. The main issue is that, because the button has multiple functions, it's not always cover you get when you press it.

 

Also, isn't you saying pause to aim should stay because it's optional but you want hard cover completely removed when it also is optional rather hypocritical?

 

and hard cover in ME3 is 100% optional. Many of the players of the MP boards will actually recommend you avoid hard cover.

[Sylvius the Mad]

but hard cover as it was in ME3 was directly triggered by the player. The main issue is that, because the button has multiple functions, it's not always cover you get when you press it.

Also, isn't you saying pause to aim should stay because it's optional but you want hard cover completely removed when it also is optional rather hypocritical?

I'm saying that real-time aiming can stay because it's optional. It's the action elements that need to justify their presence in an RPG.

and hard cover in ME3 is 100% optional. Many of the players of the MP boards will actually recommend you avoid hard cover.

But it's entirely possible to enter hard cover by accident. Since all of the movement commands are given in real time, they need not to be skill-based. If there's a question of the timing of command inputs because those commands are context-sensitive, that's a problem.

I think there should be a way to play a Mass Effect game that is 0% reliant on player skill, and hard cover doesn't allow that as long as the buttons are overmapped and required to be used in real time.

[Element Zero]

There is little evidence to support conclusions regarding platform market share.

True. It's complete guesswork on my part, since I have no data.

This series definitely seemed more and more targeted at console players as time went on, in my opinion, particularly based upon the complaints of the PC crowd. Their complaints always seemed so easily addressed, as if the features they found lacking were so because BioWare simply didn't take the time to "do it right". I can't give you a long list at present, since I'm a console gamer and this has been a long term observation, more than anything. The apparent inability to remap this function sounds like one more example. If Mass Effect were optimized for PC, would that likely be the case? I've never been a PC gamer, so I have zero frame of reference.

I think BioWare is very aware of their large PC using fan base, but EA knows where all the money is-- its with the people who buy every title that hits consoles. Those same people who never get past the "third act" in a "twelve act" game. I've never understood them, but it describes 99% of my friends.

I've meandered way off topic. I'm largely ignorant on this topic of which I've just posted, since I have zero exposure to PC gaming. I'm always curious to glean what I can about it from conversations that don't devolve into lectures about its obvious technical superiority.

[Addictress]

Of course. I got to listen to the news, my squadmates, it was a lore friendly way to travel and the music was great. What's not to love?

I liked the elevators too.

I loved them.

[Cyonan]

I'm saying that real-time aiming can stay because it's optional. It's the action elements that need to justify their presence in an RPG.
But it's entirely possible to enter hard cover by accident. Since all of the movement commands are given in real time, they need not to be skill-based. If there's a question of the timing of command inputs because those commands are context-sensitive, that's a problem.

I think there should be a way to play a Mass Effect game that is 0% reliant on player skill, and hard cover doesn't allow that as long as the buttons are overmapped and required to be used in real time.

 

It's a good thing that Mass Effect is not a pure RPG then. Action elements do not need to justify themselves in a cover based shooter.

 

I already said to separate the button commands so that interact and take cover aren't on the same button. Once you do that, it would be impossible to enter cover without you pressing the button specifically to enter cover. That doesn't require needlessly removing an optional feature from the game.

 

Plus, you completely ignored the fact that hard cover in ME3 is 100% optional. If you hate it so much, why not just ignore it?

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's a good thing that Mass Effect is not a pure RPG then. Action elements do not need to justify themselves in a cover based shooter.

It's either an RPG or it's not. There's no middle ground.

It might also be a cover-based shooter. I see no reason why it can't be both things.

I already said to separate the button commands so that interact and take cover aren't on the same button. Once you do that, it would be impossible to enter cover without you pressing the button specifically to enter cover.

That would satisfy me. Then there would be no reason to remove the feature.

Plus, you completely ignored the fact that hard cover in ME3 is 100% optional. If you hate it so much, why not just ignore it?

It's not 100% optional if you can do it accident when trying to sprint past something.

[Addictress]

Anything that isn't exactly ME3 MP is going to be a failure in my eyes. ME3 MP was perfect. You only used cover if you needed, and if you wanted to be badass and not use cover and only do soft cover, you could. Also, I never had issues with the cover mechanism. I thought the controls responded exactly as I wanted to and I could focus on improving my keyboard and clicking skillz.

 

 

Also, anyone who's played seriously on gold and platinum (and even though I really suck at skill-based games, I was obsessed enough to eventually get good enough to play gold and platinum regularly and well, which I am too proud of), knows that the cover in ME3 sometimes turned into epic "battening down the hatches" sort of "bunkering in trenches" situations where five banshees are clawing and reaching for you and two squaddies who must time their powers and release them just right while protected by a tiny chunk of concrete. Which was an awesome experience, and it will be a great deterioration of gameplay if it is not available in the next game.

[Cyonan]

It's either an RPG or it's not. There's no middle ground.

It might also be a cover-based shooter. I see no reason why it can't be both things.

 

If it's both things, then the action elements do not need to justify themselves in a cover based shooter.

 

If it's not both things, then I would claim that it's a cover based shooter and not a RPG.

 

That would satisfy me. Then there would be no reason to remove the feature.
It's not 100% optional if you can do it accident when trying to sprint past something.

 

It generally helps to see if there's an easy solution before saying "remove it because I don't like it". That's a horrible approach to game design.

 

So it's not optional because you occasionally get stuck and have to tap spacebar again to continue on your way less than half a second behind time? I guess I'll say optional 99% of the time, even though it's incredibly easy to avoid taking cover by accident while sprinting to the point I don't even really want to call it an accident.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Controllers could handle more discrete commands by using buttons in combination (much as NWN did to get its 48 slot hotbar).

But they don't. Designers keep configuring the games to use the buttons one at a time, and thus we're saddled with overmapped controls.

Either games need to use buttons in combinations, or controllers need to have more buttons. And really, why don't they? Flightsticks, 20 years ago, had more buttons than modern controllers. Controllers need more buttons.

Or consoles need to support KBM inputs.

[ExoGeniVI]

Controllers could handle more discrete commands by using buttons in combination (much as NWN did to get its 48 slot hotbar).

But they don't. Designers keep configuring the games to use the buttons one at a time, and thus we're saddled with overmapped controls.

Either games need to use buttons in combinations, or controllers need to have more buttons. And really, why don't they? Flightsticks, 20 years ago, had more buttons than modern controllers. Controllers need more buttons.

Or consoles need to support KBM inputs.

Oh you reminded me of the Xbox pro controller... and yes this is real...

[RoboticWater]

Controllers could handle more discrete commands by using buttons in combination (much as NWN did to get its 48 slot hotbar).

But they don't. Designers keep configuring the games to use the buttons one at a time, and thus we're saddled with overmapped controls.

Either games need to use buttons in combinations, or controllers need to have more buttons. And really, why don't they? Flightsticks, 20 years ago, had more buttons than modern controllers. Controllers need more buttons.

Or they need to support KBM inputs.

Controllers don't have more buttons because, much like the consoles they're bundled with, controllers are built to be simple, compact, and consistent. Having more hardware buttons or software button combinations makes the controls more complex and potentially tedious.

 

Yes, controllers should be remappable, but, for whatever reason, that isn't an industry standard (maybe to prevent cheating in multiplayer games). Regardless, that doesn't make the very prospect of hard cover untenable.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Controllers don't have more buttons because, much like the consoles they're bundled with, controllers are built to be simple, compact, and consistent. Having more hardware buttons or software button combinations makes the controls more complex and potentially tedious.

Yes, controllers should be remappable, but, for whatever reason, that isn't an industry standard (maybe to prevent cheating in multiplayer games). Regardless, that doesn't make the very prospect of hard cover untenable.

Then we need to be able to give movement commands while paused, to eliminate the twitch-based requirement.

[RoboticWater]

Then we need to be able to give movement commands while paused, to eliminate the twitch-based requirement.

"Twitch-based." Counter Strike is twitch-based. Mass Effect just requires a bit of hand-eye coordination.

 

Maybe we should just cut our losses and remove pause to aim altogether.